Value of: Yanni Gourde

[archanfelnsx]

What would it take to get Yanni Gourde to the Rangers with 25% salary retained? What would realistically needed to be added to the following package:

1st Rounder in 2022
Vitali Kravtsov
Filip Chytil

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[Djp]

He has 3 full years left. 25% retention over 3 yrs will cost a lot more than that.

the 1st being late has little actual value.
The other players have little value

 

[Necrobutcher]

What would it take to get Yanni Gourde to the Rangers with 25% salary retained? What would realistically needed to be added to the following package:

1st Rounder in 2022
Vitali Kravtsov
Filip Chytil

Nothing. Even though Gourde is very good that's still already a bit of an overpayment.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

What would it take to get Yanni Gourde to the Rangers with 25% salary retained? What would realistically needed to be added to the following package:

1st Rounder in 2022
Vitali Kravtsov
Filip Chytil

You want Seattle to trade their currently best center(Beniers hasn't played an NHL game) and retain 25% for three more years?

I think the retention alone is not happening cause no one's going to retain on a productive player for this amount of years and while also giving up a retention slot for three years.

The package also isn't all that interesting with a late first rounder, a guy that just ran away from New York and another one who's been thrown into every Rangers trade package and hasn't really panned out so far.

Overall I don't see a scenario where the Kraken are retaining on Gourde and I doubt they're all that interested in trading him right now.

 

[Cenzo_]

Nothing. Even though Gourde is very good that's still already a bit of an overpayment.

You want Gourde for 3 more years after this season at 25% (need another team to play as max retention is 50% per team) you will certainly need to add more

 

[Necrobutcher]

You want Gourde for 3 more years after this season at 25% (need another team to play as max retention is 50% per team) you will certainly need to add more

Gotcha. I misinterpreted the retention i guess though wouldn't that be 75% retained then?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Chytil and Kravtsov both have draft pedigree but have not really shown much at the NHL level. The 1st rounder is going to be a late one. Just looking at what Toffoli got, I would think Gourde would cost significantly more.

I don't think the Rangers would be willing to pay what Francis would ask. He would likely start the conversation around one of the top Rangers prospects and go from there.

 

[Lays]

That’s an unbelievable return for Gourde. Legit up there with the Eichel package.

Chytil and Kravtsov both have draft pedigree but have not really shown much at the NHL level. The 1st rounder is going to be a late one. Just looking at what Toffoli got, I would think Gourde would cost significantly more.

I don't think the Rangers would be willing to pay what Francis would ask. He would likely start the conversation around one of the top Rangers prospects and go from there.

Gtfo. Seattle accepts this ridiculous overpayment while laughing

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

That’s an unbelievable return for Gourde. Legit up there with the Eichel package.

Gtfo. Seattle accepts this ridiculous overpayment while laughing

Or they won't while hanging up the phone.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

That’s an unbelievable return for Gourde. Legit up there with the Eichel package.

Gtfo. Seattle accepts this ridiculous overpayment while laughing

A late first, a player who refuses to play for the Rangers as is not even in North America nor proven anything and a player that recently was a healthy scratch is up there with the Eichel package? Hahaha talk about being a homer.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

That’s an unbelievable return for Gourde. Legit up there with the Eichel package.

Gtfo. Seattle accepts this ridiculous overpayment while laughing

An Eichel like return?

Where exactly is that Tuch type player in that package?
And both of the younger guys are either not doing all that great since being in the NHL or just ran away and completely derailed their trade value.

And on top of that Seattle would have to retain about $1.25 mil for three more years.

 

[Ita]

What would it take to get Yanni Gourde to the Rangers with 25% salary retained? What would realistically needed to be added to the following package:

1st Rounder in 2022
Vitali Kravtsov
Filip Chytil

LOL some rangers fans think this package is an overpayment for Miller and yet you think they still have to add to get Yanni Gourde.

 

[Lays]

A late first, a player who refuses to play for the Rangers as is not even in North America nor proven anything and a player that recently was a healthy scratch is up there with the Eichel package? Hahaha talk about being a homer.

A 22 year old center that’s better at the same age than the player in return, had 22 even strength points in 42 games last season

a recent 9th overall who has set a KHL playoff points record and has a strong history of playoff and tournament play

and a 1st round pick.

 

[Cenzo_]

Gotcha. I misinterpreted the retention i guess though wouldn't that be 75% retained then?

You are right, I saw 25% but that the retention not the remaining salary. Changes the picture a lot.

Hard to gage the value but seems a lot more fair

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

A 22 year old center that’s better at the same age than the player in return, had 22 even strength points in 42 games last season

a recent 9th overall who has set a KHL playoff points record and has a strong history of playoff and tournament play

and a 1st round pick.

- So you are comparing the stats Gourde, an undrafted player, to one that was drafted in the 1st round at that age? You may see Chytil as something better than a 0.5 PPG player, I don't. Comparing success at the NHL level:

1st season: Gourde -> 1 points in 2 games. Chytil -> 3 points in 9 games
2nd season: Gourde -> 8 points in 20 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 75 games
3rd season: Gourde ->64 points in 82 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 60 games
4th season: Gourde ->48 points in 80 games. Chytil -> 22 points in 42 games

Also, over these 4 seasons Chytil was -22. Gourde was +43

I understand that age is a factor here since Chytil was 18 in his first season and Gourde was 23 but Gourde was a much more positive factor during his first 4 seasons than Chytil was.

- Kravtsov also only had 4 points in 20 games and was bottom-5 on a good Rangers team in +/- last season. KHL success does not guarantee the same at the NHL level. Plus the fact that he is Russian does not make me comfortable that he would be willing to come over to NA, specially in the current political climate.

- The 1st round pick is likely to be in the 25-32 range. Its good but can't be the main piece of the trade.

So thanks. But no thanks. And I almost forgot to add the fact that the Kraken have really no interest in moving Gourde. So, other teams may cite 'fair value' and what not, but it is going to take a substantial overpayment for us to move Gourde.

 

[wgknestrick]

- So you are comparing the stats Gourde, an undrafted player, to one that was drafted in the 1st round at that age? You may see Chytil as something better than a 0.5 PPG player, I don't. Comparing success at the NHL level:

1st season: Gourde -> 1 points in 2 games. Chytil -> 3 points in 9 games
2nd season: Gourde -> 8 points in 20 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 75 games
3rd season: Gourde ->64 points in 82 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 60 games
4th season: Gourde ->48 points in 80 games. Chytil -> 22 points in 42 games

Also, over these 4 seasons Chytil was -22. Gourde was +43

I understand that age is a factor here since Chytil was 18 in his first season and Gourde was 23 but Gourde was a much more positive factor during his first 4 seasons than Chytil was.

- Kravtsov also only had 4 points in 20 games and was bottom-5 on a good Rangers team in +/- last season. KHL success does not guarantee the same at the NHL level. Plus the fact that he is Russian does not make me comfortable that he would be willing to come over to NA, specially in the current political climate.

- The 1st round pick is likely to be in the 25-32 range. Its good but can't be the main piece of the trade.

So thanks. But no thanks. And I almost forgot to add the fact that the Kraken have really no interest in moving Gourde. So, other teams may cite 'fair value' and what not, but it is going to take a substantial overpayment for us to move Gourde.

I have no dog in this fight, just pointing out that your comparison has many fundamental flaws. For example, a poor understanding of the age vs production curve of NHL forwards along with comparing +- between players on vastly different teams. You may be correct, but not because of your stated evidence.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Seattle should keep Gourde. They could draft Wright or Cooley in this draft.

Next year, they could have a center line of Gourde, Beniers and Wright. That's pretty good.

Need to fix the Goaltending and coaching.

 

[ShaneinTpa]

- So you are comparing the stats Gourde, an undrafted player, to one that was drafted in the 1st round at that age? You may see Chytil as something better than a 0.5 PPG player, I don't. Comparing success at the NHL level:

1st season: Gourde -> 1 points in 2 games. Chytil -> 3 points in 9 games
2nd season: Gourde -> 8 points in 20 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 75 games
3rd season: Gourde ->64 points in 82 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 60 games
4th season: Gourde ->48 points in 80 games. Chytil -> 22 points in 42 games

Also, over these 4 seasons Chytil was -22. Gourde was +43

I understand that age is a factor here since Chytil was 18 in his first season and Gourde was 23 but Gourde was a much more positive factor during his first 4 seasons than Chytil was.

- Kravtsov also only had 4 points in 20 games and was bottom-5 on a good Rangers team in +/- last season. KHL success does not guarantee the same at the NHL level. Plus the fact that he is Russian does not make me comfortable that he would be willing to come over to NA, specially in the current political climate.

- The 1st round pick is likely to be in the 25-32 range. Its good but can't be the main piece of the trade.

So thanks. But no thanks. And I almost forgot to add the fact that the Kraken have really no interest in moving Gourde. So, other teams may cite 'fair value' and what not, but it is going to take a substantial overpayment for us to move Gourde.

And to add he is probably the most honest player you have in that he never cheats the game

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I have no dog in this fight, just pointing out that your comparison has many fundamental flaws. For example, a poor understanding of the age vs production curve of NHL forwards along with comparing +- between players on vastly different teams. You may be correct, but not because of your stated evidence.

The reason for that is because I cannot compare one player to the other at the same age given that they were playing in different leagues.

I understand it is not the best comparison but was atleast across the same leagues.

Seattle should keep Gourde. They could draft Wright or Cooley in this draft.

Next year, they could have a center line of Gourde, Beniers and Wright. That's pretty good.

Need to fix the Goaltending and coaching.

I think goaltending will sort itself out. Grubauer has been pretty good since January. Coaching, for sure.

 

[Dr Quincy]

- So you are comparing the stats Gourde, an undrafted player, to one that was drafted in the 1st round at that age? You may see Chytil as something better than a 0.5 PPG player, I don't. Comparing success at the NHL level:

1st season: Gourde -> 1 points in 2 games. Chytil -> 3 points in 9 games
2nd season: Gourde -> 8 points in 20 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 75 games
3rd season: Gourde ->64 points in 82 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 60 games
4th season: Gourde ->48 points in 80 games. Chytil -> 22 points in 42 games

Also, over these 4 seasons Chytil was -22. Gourde was +43

I understand that age is a factor here since Chytil was 18 in his first season and Gourde was 23 but Gourde was a much more positive factor during his first 4 seasons than Chytil was.

- Kravtsov also only had 4 points in 20 games and was bottom-5 on a good Rangers team in +/- last season. KHL success does not guarantee the same at the NHL level. Plus the fact that he is Russian does not make me comfortable that he would be willing to come over to NA, specially in the current political climate.

- The 1st round pick is likely to be in the 25-32 range. Its good but can't be the main piece of the trade.

So thanks. But no thanks. And I almost forgot to add the fact that the Kraken have really no interest in moving Gourde. So, other teams may cite 'fair value' and what not, but it is going to take a substantial overpayment for us to move Gourde.

I like the use of +/-. But you neglected to mention that Gourde is -10 this year. I mean, if this is an important stat to use, does this mean that Gourde is regressing?


Or is +/- almost completely dependent on team strength, and thus not worth mentioning in comparing 2 players?

 

[kihei]

If Gourde were still playing for Tampa, the offer might tempt the Lightning to roll the dice. But the Kraken don't have the luxury of taking the risk. Gourde is one of the relatively few players on our roster who has clearly demonstrated his value for our franchise going forward in a key position. So it is a case of a very nice bird in hand being worth more than two potentially nice birds in the bush (and a late first).

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I like the use of +/-. But you neglected to mention that Gourde is -10 this year. I mean, if this is an important stat to use, does this mean that Gourde is regressing?


Or is +/- almost completely dependent on team strength, and thus not worth mentioning in comparing 2 players?

I realize that +/- is important in context.

1st season: Gourde -> 1 points in 2 games. Chytil -> 3 points in 9 games

Ignoring +/- since neither played 10 games.

2nd season: Gourde -> 8 points in 20 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 75 games

Chytil was dead last on his team with -22. 18 roster players worse than Gourde on his team. He was -1.

3rd season: Gourde ->64 points in 82 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 60 games

Chytil ties for 8th worst on his team at -7. Gourde led his team at +34.

4th season: Gourde ->48 points in 80 games. Chytil -> 22 points in 42 games

Gourde middle-of-the-pack on his team at +9. Chytil top 5 on his team at +9.

And since you bought the current season, Gourde is -10 on a bottom-3 team but top-10 in +/- on that team. Chytil is 7th worst on his team with -3.

Feel free to dig more into advanced stats if you wish.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

The Kraken are better off keeping Gourde unless the right deal comes their way, aka overpayment. Plus his contract isn't the best, not the worst but not good for a team with a cap crunch.

I'd say 1st + Prospect + Young roster player gets Yanni traded today.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The Kraken are better off keeping Gourde unless the right deal comes their way, aka overpayment. Plus his contract isn't the best, not the worst but not good for a team with a cap crunch.

I'd say 1st + Prospect + Young roster player gets Yanni traded today.

Gourde's contract is pretty damn good for what he brings. He is at the same points pace as McCann on our team but considerably better defensively. Not sure how you can argue that his contract is not really good.

If you want that type of deal to work for the Kraken either that 1st be in the 5-10 range OR the prospect or young roster player be really really good.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I realize that +/- is important in context.

1st season: Gourde -> 1 points in 2 games. Chytil -> 3 points in 9 games

Ignoring +/- since neither played 10 games.

2nd season: Gourde -> 8 points in 20 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 75 games

Chytil was dead last on his team with -22. 18 roster players worse than Gourde on his team. He was -1.

3rd season: Gourde ->64 points in 82 games. Chytil -> 23 points in 60 games

Chytil ties for 8th worst on his team at -7. Gourde led his team at +34.

4th season: Gourde ->48 points in 80 games. Chytil -> 22 points in 42 games

Gourde middle-of-the-pack on his team at +9. Chytil top 5 on his team at +9.

And since you bought the current season, Gourde is -10 on a bottom-3 team but top-10 in +/- on that team. Chytil is 7th worst on his team with -3.

Feel free to dig more into advanced stats if you wish.

1) I never said anything about their scoring history but your continue comparison of "1st year vs. 1st year" "2nd year vs. 2nd year" is something that is patently ridiculous given the 2 players here and has already been called out by others. Recycling that argument doesn't help.

At age 19 Chytil was better
At age 20 Chytil was better
at age 21 Chytil was better
at age 22 Chytil was better

A similarly reductive argument that is techinically true (as is yours) but is clearly being used in less than full disclosure mode.

BTW I never said this deal was good or bad or equal. I just find your use of +/- to be ridiculous....