Proposal: Wpg-det-phi

[ponder719]

So, just to be sure I understand. You think Provorov for Tatar and a 3rd is a "fair" deal?

That would be the bit where he said "The rest of the deal falls apart." He was referring only to the value in to Winnipeg, not to the Philly/Detroit part of the deal.
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Anyway, to OP: the issue here, for Philly, is that while the NHL roster really needs another top 6 winger, that's not the greatest organizational need; that remains "fix the GD defense." Any move to fix the wing issue is likely to weaken our pool of prospects on defense, which increases the odds that, in the end, the defensive issues we have won't be fixed properly. Until we're sure we have that settled, we can't take the risk of moving any of our guys, unless we're getting back someone who is a similarly strong prospect with a slightly better timeline.

 

[Maukkis]

So, just to be sure I understand. You think Provorov for Tatar and a 3rd is a "fair" deal?

If you read the post again, you might notice the words "and then the rest of the deal falls apart" inside the brackets.

There is no Trouba proposal which works for Winnipeg, as our defensive depth is basically just our top 4 and then scraps. Our defense is also quite old if you subtract Trouba. (and yes, I know that there's Sanheim coming back in the proposal, but he has proven nothing) You either have to offer a replacement defenseman, which won't likely make any sense to the other team, or it doesn't work for us. It's that simple.

 

[dream43]

Gostisbehere is sort of separate, as he is already established as a top-four NHL defenseman.

The team board is in the middle of its annual prospect rankings, but so far, it is:

1. Provorov, Ivan
2. Sanheim, Travis
3. Konecny, Travis
4. Morin, Sam
5. Rubtsov, German
6. Myers, Philippe (in progress)

There's likely to be a drop to the next group of defensive prospects (Hagg, Freidman). I wouldn't be surprised if the next four or five guys are forwards.

Ah thank you sir

 

[Flyerfan47]

Not happening. Tartar is under contract for what, one more year? You want a potential top pairing d-man for a 1 year contract ? Yeah, NO ! Better make that 3rd alot better

 

[Flyerfan47]

Either Sanheim gets changed to Provorov (and then the rest of the deal falls apart), Nyquist changes to DeKeyser, or it's a no from Winnipeg. Other than that, not too bad.

You need a wake up call if you think thats fair.

 

[Maukkis]

You need a wake up call if you think thats fair.

AND THEN THE REST OF THE DEAL FALLS APART. Does that look like me thinking it's fair?

 

[Henkka]

Not happening. Tartar is under contract for what, one more year? You want a potential top pairing d-man for a 1 year contract ? Yeah, NO ! Better make that 3rd alot better

You kind of knew RFAs can be extended? Or did you?

 

[SoupaTroupa]

Trouba is moving everywhere today.

No kidding. I wish we would just hurry up and either sign him or trade him so this nonsense will stop.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Not happening. Tartar is under contract for what, one more year? You want a potential top pairing d-man for a 1 year contract ? Yeah, NO ! Better make that 3rd alot better

You do realize here that Tatar is still a pending RFA for 1 more year after this. So he's still actually a 2 year player if he's resigned for 1 more year not just 1 year deal here.

 

[Mkoll]

If you read the post again, you might notice the words "and then the rest of the deal falls apart" inside the brackets.

There is no Trouba proposal which works for Winnipeg, as our defensive depth is basically just our top 4 and then scraps. Our defense is also quite old if you subtract Trouba. (and yes, I know that there's Sanheim coming back in the proposal, but he has proven nothing) You either have to offer a replacement defenseman, which won't likely make any sense to the other team, or it doesn't work for us. It's that simple.

I like dilberts explanation better, much friendlier. No need to get all huffy because someone misunderstood

 

[phlocky]

WPG
IN: Sanheim, Nyquist
OUT: Trouba, 2017 3rd

PHI
IN: Tatar, 2017 3rd
OUT: Sanheim

DET
IN: Trouba
OUT: Tatar, Nyquist

Likely needs to be balanced a bit, but what's your take HF?

Not terrible Philly politely declined. We aren't in a position yet to be trading defensive prospects. We'll have to wait a few years to see which ones rise to the top to be certain that we fix our defense long term. Make it MDZ and our 2nd and I'd do it but I doubt that passes the test for other teams.

 

[phlocky]

Either Sanheim gets changed to Provorov (and then the rest of the deal falls apart), Nyquist changes to DeKeyser, or it's a no from Winnipeg. Other than that, not too bad.

Sorry but I most definitely wouldn't trade Provo straight up for Trouba and I highly doubt anyone else would regardless of Provo "proving nothing" in the NHL yet and Trouba being a top 4 right now. That would kind of beike us expecting Leafs to trade us Matthews for MDZ because you know, MDZ is a PROVEN top 4 dman right now and Matthews hasn't even played in the league yet.

 

[AtlasRust]

Do the Flyers at least get a steak dinner before they get ****ed?

 

[Hally BlackWood]

Do the Flyers at least get a steak dinner before they get ****ed?

yes but its a hamburger steak

 

[Gabe Kupari]

This makes very little sense for both Philly and WPG.

Trouba and a 3rd gets WPG sanheim and nyquist?

Trouba Alone is worth more. I like Sanheim but no way the Jets touch this. Nyquist is just another winger to the jets. They have enough.
Philly gets screwed also

 

[Dead Thing Fan]

WPG
IN: Sanheim, Nyquist
OUT: Trouba, 2017 3rd

PHI
IN: Tatar, 2017 3rd
OUT: Sanheim

DET
IN: Trouba
OUT: Tatar, Nyquist

Likely needs to be balanced a bit, but what's your take HF?

As a Wings fan, I am all over this. Not only do we get Trouba, but by moving both Nyquist and Tatar we free up space for Mantha and AA to be on the big team this year.

 

[FireBird71]

Not happening. Tartar is under contract for what, one more year? You want a potential top pairing d-man for a 1 year contract ? Yeah, NO ! Better make that 3rd alot better

Tatar is a RFA

 

[flyersfan018]

Easy pass from Philly.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

Not too bad for the Jets in terms of value, but Nyquist doesn't do much for me. We're going to have legitimate NHL wingers playing in the AHL this season. Adding another just adds to the logjam. Switch him out for a decent pick 1st or early 2nd or a prospect (C or RHD) and I'm on board. I don't know Detroit's prospect pool very well, so off the top of my head I'm not sure who that would be.

 

[tade]

WPG
IN: Sanheim, Nyquist
OUT: Trouba, 2017 3rd

PHI
IN: Tatar, 2017 3rd
OUT: Sanheim

DET
IN: Trouba
OUT: Tatar, Nyquist

Likely needs to be balanced a bit, but what's your take HF?

No way.

 

[Ruck Over]

yes but its a hamburger steak

I instinctively hate you, but your comment is very amusing and brought joy to my day.

On topic- easy pass from Philly for Dilbert's reasoning above. Value is there, feel goods are not, arguably it doesn't improve the team for long term success.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

No way.

Seems that way to me too. I think WPG is giving up enough with Trouba, no need for the 3rd. Flyers are reasonably wanting more than the OP's offer. Detroit seems to be making out really well here.

I think the bones of the deal are alright, but the value needs tweaking.

It's pretty obvious that the Jets are giving up the biggest piece here. There doesn't seem to be a good reason for the Jets to throw in a 3rd.

Sanheim is probably a very good player over his career, but that's less certain.

Basically what needs to happen here is the Wings need to pay the Flyers enough for an asset that will convince the Jets to part with Trouba. Sanheim + don'tneedhim - 3rd round pick = <Trouba.

The Wings also seem to have failed to motivate the Flyers to move Sanheim (though losing him isn't exactly painful for the Bullies considering their depth).

More from the Wings, less from the Jets and we could be in for a sexy 3 way. Make it bittersweet for Detroit like it is for the other 2 clubs and we very well could have a deal.

 

[Maukkis]

Seems that way to me too. I think WPG is giving up enough with Trouba, no need for the 3rd. Flyers are reasonably wanting more than the OP's offer. Detroit seems to be making out really well here.

I think the bones of the deal are alright, but the value needs tweaking.

It's pretty obvious that the Jets are giving up the biggest piece here. There doesn't seem to be a good reason for the Jets to throw in a 3rd.

Sanheim is probably a very good player over his career, but that's less certain.

Basically what needs to happen here is the Wings need to pay the Flyers enough for an asset that will convince the Jets to part with Trouba. Sanheim + don'tneedhim - 3rd round pick = <Trouba.

The Wings also seem to have failed to motivate the Flyers to move Sanheim (though losing him isn't exactly painful for the Bullies).

More from the Wings, less from the Jets and we could be in for a sexy 3 way. Make it bittersweet for Detroit like it is for the other 2 clubs and we very well could have a deal.

Philly doesn't exactly have a reason to give up Sanheim. They don't have a good defense now, and Sanheim is a big part of fixing the defense long term. They should prioritize their defense over their left side, which they are probably doing anyway.

 

[sully1410]

If you make Nyquist into Dekeyser, I would do it.

 

[FissionFire]

If you make Nyquist into Dekeyser, I would do it.

Detroit already doesn't have enough defenseman and is trying to add some. Moving Tatar and DeKeyser for Trouba doesn't really solve their desperate need to add D.

I mean I like Trouba and all but I think the value of a pair of proven consistent 20goal 40-50points top 6 wingers is more than it is being given credit for. Even on last years team where the offense and PP were disasters, they still were top scorers on the team. Consistent proven 20 goal guys are pretty valuable in the NHL these days. I can't see how Detroit would need to add even more just to get a deal done for Trouba. I love Sanheim as much as anyone but to say he is equivalent value to Trouba or Nyquist+Tatar seems to be really selling him as an established guy who is hitting his ceiling instead of the lottery ticket all prospects are. I mean holy smokes the kid hasn't even played a season in the AHL yet but he's worth more than established NHL players? It's not like you have to look far to find prospects dominating juniors who haven't exactly transitioned to the pros and dominated. Detroit has two prime examples alone in Mantha and Sproul (who might be on waivers). It's crazy to think a kid is worth more than guys who have proven it over multiple seasons.