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Would your team rather have Stützle-Norris-Pinto-Greig or Raymond-Norris-Pinto-Greig?

Which one?

  • Total voters
    39
ReginKarlssonLehner said:
Not a debate. Always the C over the W. And statistically, Stutzle has been one of the best 2 way C's this year too so even more valuable.
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It's not really "Always". If you had backup Cs better than Norris/Pinto then you go with Raymond.

But OP's suggestion (From another thread) was specific to Ottawa. In this case, even if you think Raymond is the better player, Stutzle/Norris is monumentally better than Norris/Pinto for your Top 6Cs. You don't cripple yourself down the middle to swap your elite center for an elite winger.
 
For Ottawa specifically right now, I don’t think a lot changes. Stutzle and Raymond are pretty close this year. Both can drive play and have been strong defensively. Center over winger usually comes down to play driving and defensive responsibility but I don’t think that’s an issue so much here. And Raymond’s puck management is better.

Norris and Pinto aren’t ideal 1-2 but Pinto has shown he has more than just 3C chops and the Sens don’t have an overly good 4th best winger where Raymond pushing him down would be a bigger loss than moving Pinto up (The Sens would be quite strong with Raymond, Tkachuk, Batherson and Giroux).

Long term I’d still lean Stutzle because I think good wingers are just easier to find.
 
ReginKarlssonLehner said:
Not a debate. Always the C over the W. And statistically, Stutzle has been one of the best 2 way C's this year too so even more valuable.
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He’s just barely PPG and gets 70% O-zone starts lmao. Even with his baby-soft offensive usage he’s only up 3 goals at ES. Doesn’t PK, can’t win a faceoff, nonexistent physical/board game, 3x more giveaways than takeaways, I could go on.
 
Martin Skoula said:
He’s just barely PPG and gets 70% O-zone starts lmao. Even with his baby-soft offensive usage he’s only up 3 goals at ES. Doesn’t PK, can’t win a faceoff, nonexistent physical/board game, 3x more giveaways than takeaways, I could go on.
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Some of these are real head-scratchers from someone who clearly has never watched him play very much.

For one, he's 4th on the team in hits. He does in fact lay the body and he does play the boards.

For another, like most puck carriers, he has a lot of giveaways, especially in his case as the primary puck carrier on the team.

For example, Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews have twice as many giveaways as takeaways. Tavares and Nylander also almost have 3 times as many.

Just going to the NHL Miscellaneous stats page doesn't make you an expert on this player, sorry.
 
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NyQuil said:
Some of these are real head-scratchers from someone who clearly has never watched him play very much.

For one, he's 4th on the team in hits. He does in fact lay the body and he does play the boards.

For another, like most puck carriers, he has a lot of giveaways because he's the primary puck carrier on the team.

For example, Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews have twice as many giveaways as takeaways. Tavares and Nylander also almost have 3 times as many.

Just going to the NHL Miscellaneous stats page doesn't make you an expert on this player, sorry.
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Can you explain why he’s one of the top two-way Cs in the league? Can we expect a Selke finalist this year?
 
So Stu vs Ray Part VII?

Raymond has been better this year. I would have taken Stu before this year. I think it’s a toss-up moving forward.

The other 3 don’t matter to me. Put Greig at wing if you need to.
 
Martin Skoula said:
Can you explain why he’s one of the top two-way Cs in the league? Can we expect a Selke finalist this year?
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Seeing as I didn't make that assertion, why would I?

He's definitely getting better at the two-way game under Travis Green, like most of Ottawa's younger core talent.

Don't get mad at me just because you don't know how to interpret statistics properly.
 
Martin Skoula said:
He’s just barely PPG and gets 70% O-zone starts lmao. Even with his baby-soft offensive usage he’s only up 3 goals at ES. Doesn’t PK, can’t win a faceoff, nonexistent physical/board game, 3x more giveaways than takeaways, I could go on.
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Barely PPG, there is 3 points difference between players.

Non existent physical board game, just tells everyone you don’t watch him play.
Stutzle has 330% more hits. That puts Raymond at 326th place among forwards.
So you must think Raymond is ultra uber soft then..

Puck possession and skating its also Stutzle. I could go on.
 
WarriorofTime said:
Least passive aggressive Stutzle vs. Raymond poll
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I actually selected Raymond lol, because the Sens absolutely need a gamebreaking winger. But at the same time Norris and Pinto not always healthy is concerning. For me if Norris and Pinto were durable, it'll be Raymond no competition due to the Sens needing the gamebreaking winger. But even with their issues I do want that winger badly. I have Stu as the marginally better player when you factor their entire careers thus far (Raymond's been a bit better since the LaLonde firing of course).
 
I see Raymond as the better player overall, but at the same time having Stutzle is more valuable for the Sens than Raymond would be. The drop in center quality would be too much, especially considering the much easier path of acquiring wingers compared to centers. Looking at recent years, there's been much more first line wingers being moved than first line centers because of this very same reason.
 
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