Would you say this is the most jaw dropping Gretzky statistic?

[tarheelhockey]

I don't know if it's the most jaw-dropping, but this one is mighty impressive. First time I've heard it.

 

[Sens Rule]

The question I have is which was more impressive (career wise) - Gretzky's first 1000 points or his 2nd 1000 points? (The 2nd one only took 9 games more, so the games played is almost the same and therefore irrelevant.) Both 1000 point stretches could easily each be a hall of fame career. Heck, what he accomplished over his last 857 points could have arguabley got him into the hall of fame as well (2 Art Ross's, multiple top 5 finishes, Lady Bing Trophies, etc). Interestingly enough, his last 857 points came after game number 857 (the number of games it took him to reach 2000 points)...kind of spooky. There are a lot weird, almost pre-destined, Gretzky numbers actually if you do the research.

Over the last 10 seasons of Gretzky's career he was the top scorer in the NHL. I would say the decade of the 1990's... But technically he wasn't the leader in that decade. He beat Mario, Yzerman... Everyone.... Over the back half of his career. Half of which he was not really the Great One anymore. Really an old, slower kinda broken down player with a bad back. 2nd last season in his 20th pro season, with so many extra playoff games and best of tournaments played. So much hockey. On a bad team, with few good wingers to play with. Gretzky led the league in assists and was 3rd in scoring. 1 point back of peak Peter Forsberg who was on an elite team, with great wingers.

Some players have two "HHOF" careers. Split Yzerman and Roy's careers in half and each would be voted into the HHOF.

Gretzky probably has 3 of them. If Gretzky was a rookie in 92/93.... He makes the Hall just based on the 76 points in 52 playoff games. 1 Art Ross and 3 assist titles.

Just based on his post 32 year old career he is a HHOFer and a playoff legend... In only 3 playoffs.

I think Gretzky's gravy years late career are almost more impressive then his best years, taken in context.

Gretzky outscored Mario in the 90's. Gretzky even way past his prime was elite and accomplished more then all his peers.


The most impressive stats are his playoff ones.

Three 40 point playoffs
Six 30 point playoffs
Ten 20 point playoffs including WHA
Seventeen playoffs at least a point per game. That is all of them.

 

[Sens Rule]

Just to add to the above: In 1984-85, Gretzky won the (retro) Richard Trophy for most goals... and he scored only 8 power-play goals all season.

There are a lot of factors involved in these seemingly unbelievable statistics (talent, era, teammates, unique style, 'mental' as opposed to physical hockey, etc.), and Gretzky would be the first to give credit to his teammates, but when you look at some of these achievements, one thing become clear: During his long prime years, Gretzky had an unparalleled motivation and desire to play his best, every shift, every night. I really respect that, because in the 80s he sometimes had scoring titles locked up in late January. But he loved the game and felt a responsibility to the fans to play his best at all times.

Gretzky had a killer instinct. Like Michael Jordan. He simply never took a shift off, ever. Ever. Every shift, down 5 goals or up 5 goals... Was about one thing. His team scoring a goal.

I think every shift he ever took was about proving he was the greatest player of all time. That was his focus, his goal. Every shift. It us why he was so great. He is not recognized as an assassin like Jordan was. And it is because he does not come off as conceited or arrogant. But I think the difference is Jordan had to prove to the entire world that he was the best every play. Gretzky only had to prove it to himself, or maybe his dad. Because Gretzky did not need outside appreciation. He knew that he could be the best since he was about 16... And then he went out and played like it for 22 years.

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

The question I have is which was more impressive (career wise) - Gretzky's first 1000 points or his 2nd 1000 points? (The 2nd one only took 9 games more, so the games played is almost the same and therefore irrelevant.) Both 1000 point stretches could easily each be a hall of fame career. Heck, what he accomplished over his last 857 points could have arguabley got him into the hall of fame as well (2 Art Ross's, multiple top 5 finishes, Lady Bing Trophies, etc). Interestingly enough, his last 857 points came after game number 857 (the number of games it took him to reach 2000 points)...kind of spooky. There are a lot weird, almost pre-destined, Gretzky numbers actually if you do the research.

I have to say the second 1000 is most impressive.

The competitive drive to not let up at all at that point, after essentially lapping the competition and already putting together a GOAT case, is amazing.

 

[tazzy19]

Gretzky had a killer instinct. Like Michael Jordan. He simply never took a shift off, ever. Ever. Every shift, down 5 goals or up 5 goals... Was about one thing. His team scoring a goal.

I think every shift he ever took was about proving he was the greatest player of all time. That was his focus, his goal. Every shift. It us why he was so great. He is not recognized as an assassin like Jordan was. And it is because he does not come off as conceited or arrogant. But I think the difference is Jordan had to prove to the entire world that he was the best every play. Gretzky only had to prove it to himself, or maybe his dad. Because Gretzky did not need outside appreciation. He knew that he could be the best since he was about 16... And then he went out and played like it for 22 years.

Exactly right. He once said that after he played at the World Juniors, as a 16 year old, that he remembered thinking to himself that if some of these 19 and 20 year olds could play in the NHL, then he could as well. He had just beaten all of them in scoring quite handidly. This is when it really dawned on him he had the chance to excel in the NHL. But I'm not so sure that anyone - not even Gretzky himself - realized what would happen.

 

[Thenameless]

Disagree here, everything did go right in 89 but he just didnt have the skill to reach 215.

Wrong, everything did not go right in 89. He played in 76 games, which puts him at a 209 point pace had he played all 80. We also don't know what other things could have gone wrong that season.

In 93, his 160 in 60 put him at a 213 point pace had he played all 80.

If an injury prone guy can get on pace for 209 and 213 point seasons, then it's conceivable that he could reach 215 under ideal circumstances. Who knows what Lemieux could have done with near perfect health throughout his career.

Where Lemieux doesn't come close, is in assists. 114 is way too far to reach 163.

As an aside, I do realize that Gretzky paced himself to hit around 230-240 in a year where not everything went right for him, so who knows what he could have done in his perfect season.

Under ideal circumstances (say if Gretzky & Lemieux had played together for much of their careers), I could see Gretzky hitting 250-260 with more assists and Lemieux hitting 240-250 with more goals.

 

[tazzy19]

Wrong, everything did not go right in 89. He played in 76 games, which puts him at a 209 point pace had he played all 80. We also don't know what other things could have gone wrong that season.

In 93, his 160 in 60 put him at a 213 point pace had he played all 80.

If an injury prone guy can get on pace for 209 and 213 point seasons, then it's conceivable that he could reach 215 under ideal circumstances. Who knows what Lemieux could have done with near perfect health throughout his career.

Where Lemieux doesn't come close, is in assists. 114 is way too far to reach 163.

As an aside, I do realize that Gretzky paced himself to hit around 230-240 in a year where not everything went right for him, so who knows what he could have done in his perfect season.

Under ideal circumstances (say if Gretzky & Lemieux had played together for much of their careers), I could see Gretzky hitting 250-260 with more assists and Lemieux hitting 240-250 with more goals.

Pretty much this. Agree with everything you say, including their point totals had they played together. I suppose the other big difference is Lemieux also only approached the 200 point barrier once, where Gretzky approached it (or beat it) 5 times. The year Lemieux scored 160 in 60, he was sitting out games, and who knows how much his PPG average would have been affected over a full season without rests in between back to back games. In 1983-84, Gretzky had 175 points after 60 games, but we all know he slowed down after his 6 game injury after game 52. It's one thing to do it over 60 games. It's quite another to do it over 80.

 

[Doctor No]

For the sake of naming an accomplishment that many haven't heard, Gretz did not get shutout in two consecutive regular season games until Feb 24 and Feb 26 of 1989.

I can't find the thread, but didn't someone find a counterexample to this in a recent thread?

 

[Black Gold Extractor]

The year Lemieux scored 160 in 60, he was sitting out games, and who knows how much his PPG average would have been affected over a full season without rests in between back to back games.

It was actually the 95-96 season that Lemieux sat out games due to fatigue (161 points in 70 games).

In 1983-84, Gretzky had 175 points after 60 games, but we all know he slowed down after his 6 game injury after game 52. It's one thing to do it over 60 games. It's quite another to do it over 80.

Yup, there will always be question marks unless every game (or close to it) is played. Lemieux had 162 points in his first 60 games in 88-89 (a 216-point pace), but he slowed down ever-so slightly, and his pace dropped to 209 over a full season.

In 81-82, Gretzky actually had 82 goals in his first 66 games (yes, eighty-two goals in sixty-six games), a full-season pace of 99 goals. He went into a short slump afterward ("only" 9 assists in his next 6 games), and that was all she wrote (92 goals in 80 games). Had Gretzky slipped on a sidewalk the day after his 66th game and sat out the rest of the season with a sprained wrist or something, what would we think of his 81-82 season (without the rest of reality playing out)?

For even Gretzky or Lemieux, it's almost impossible to be in god-mode every single game. Going even a "pedestrian" 2 points-per-game for a stretch can completely ruin one's chances to set a record. A post here, a crossbar there, a teammate misses a wide open net, and poof goes your chances. Heck, Gretzky managed to put up 30 points in his last 14 games in 83-84 and that's a noticeable slump by peak-Gretzky standards. It brought his pace down from 2.92 points-per-game (175 in 60) to a "mere" 2.77 (205 in 74).

 

[Hammer Time]

For the sake of naming an accomplishment that many haven't heard, Gretz did not get shutout in two consecutive regular season games until Feb 24 and Feb 26 of 1989.

Where did you hear that? According to the boxscores on Flyershistory, Gretzky was held pointless in four consecutive games in his first month in the NHL, Oct. 24-30, 1979.

 

[Doctor No]

This is what I remember from my post above - thanks.

 

[mrhockey193195]

I heard that on HF itself. Forgiveness if it is incorrect, I will try and find box scores to verify.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

If one includes his WHA points, he had 1000 at 23.....

 

[tazzy19]

It was actually the 95-96 season that Lemieux sat out games due to fatigue (161 points in 70 games).



Yup, there will always be question marks unless every game (or close to it) is played. Lemieux had 162 points in his first 60 games in 88-89 (a 216-point pace), but he slowed down ever-so slightly, and his pace dropped to 209 over a full season.

In 81-82, Gretzky actually had 82 goals in his first 66 games (yes, eighty-two goals in sixty-six games), a full-season pace of 99 goals. He went into a short slump afterward ("only" 9 assists in his next 6 games), and that was all she wrote (92 goals in 80 games). Had Gretzky slipped on a sidewalk the day after his 66th game and sat out the rest of the season with a sprained wrist or something, what would we think of his 81-82 season (without the rest of reality playing out)?

For even Gretzky or Lemieux, it's almost impossible to be in god-mode every single game. Going even a "pedestrian" 2 points-per-game for a stretch can completely ruin one's chances to set a record. A post here, a crossbar there, a teammate misses a wide open net, and poof goes your chances. Heck, Gretzky managed to put up 30 points in his last 14 games in 83-84 and that's a noticeable slump by peak-Gretzky standards. It brought his pace down from 2.92 points-per-game (175 in 60) to a "mere" 2.77 (205 in 74).

Ah, true! I had the years confused. Thanks for clarifying. Either way, 60 games is much easier to maintain a PPG average than over 80 games. I imagine Lemiuex's would have dropped over an extra 20 games, since it's pretty much the way it always works - even for Gretzky & Lemieux. Gretzky had a ridiculous 3.0 PPG average during his 51 game scoring streak, for example - a pace that had he been able to maintain, would have resulted in a 240 point season. But of course the reality was different. I often sometimes wonder however what would have happened had he not been injured for those 6 games? Would his momentum have not slowed down (or not as much)? I sincerely think he would have hit 230 points had he not been injured. And there would have been zero debate about who had the best season of all time.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Ah, true! I had the years confused. Thanks for clarifying. Either way, 60 games is much easier to maintain a PPG average than over 80 games. I imagine Lemiuex's would have dropped over an extra 20 games, since it's pretty much the way it always works - even for Gretzky & Lemieux. Gretzky had a ridiculous 3.0 PPG average during his 51 game scoring streak, for example - a pace that had he been able to maintain, would have resulted in a 240 point season. But of course the reality was different. I often sometimes wonder however what would have happened had he not been injured for those 6 games? Would his momentum have not slowed down (or not as much)? I sincerely think he would have hit 230 points had he not been injured. And there would have been zero debate about who had the best season of all time.

And then what if lemieux didn't do radiation treatment? Which is far worse than anything gretzky ever endured. No doubt in my mind lemieux would have cleared 200 in 92-93 and obv in 88-89. 97 goal 224 point pace in 92-93 even after all the treatments is insane.

 

[kaiser matias]

I think that the most impressive stat is that there simply isn't just one you can use, that the sheer number of options is in and of itself the most impressive facet. And to add to that, the absurdity of some of the stats that can be found from Gretzky's career, and how far-fetched they are, and that they are beyond comprehension.

An example: Just look above there, the claim that he went his entire Oiler career without being shutout in consecutive games. While it's been disproved, the sheer fact that it could be claimed, and many here didn't outright doubt it, says enough about how unbelievable Gretzky was. I think that says a lot about how far beyond his peers he was.

There are just too many ways to analyse the numbers of his career and come to amazing conclusions, that to choose only one is to do a disservice to the magnitude that was the career of Gretzky. You have to take the entire whole, even though to do so is impossible to contextualise due to the fact it is so far ahead of everyone else. While you want to isolate just one thing from it to show the greatness, doing so almost lessens everything else. I think that is the greatest stat in Gretzky's career, that we just can't pick one to represent it.

 

[skeena1]

Gretzky played 696 regular season games for the Oilers. He scored 2 or more points in 472 of them. 67.8%.

 

[Sentinel]

My favorite Gretzky statistic is:

In history of NHL, only three players had over 100 assists in a season. Bobby Orr did it, once. Mario Lemieux did it, once. Wayne Gretzky did it, thirteen times.

 

[Big Phil]

I found this link in the fastest to 900/1000points thread. The fastest to 1000 points is impressive enough, but to do it TWICE (in essentially the same number of games) - after already putting in a hall of fame career the first time? Just crazy...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_players_with_1000_points



I used to think 163 assists in a season was the most absurd Gretzky record/stat. But this just might take the cake. Thoughts?

That is awfully impressive and it just keeps getting better the more you research on Gretzky's stats. Just mind boggling.

 

[Ogopogo*]

And then what if lemieux didn't do radiation treatment? Which is far worse than anything gretzky ever endured. No doubt in my mind lemieux would have cleared 200 in 92-93 and obv in 88-89. 97 goal 224 point pace in 92-93 even after all the treatments is insane.

Injuries/illnesses = rest. Pace slows over the course of 80 games.

Lemieux is behind Gretzky in every single way except for the number of people who ask "what if...?" Nobody needs ask that about Gretzky because he did.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Injuries/illnesses = rest. Pace slows over the course of 80 games.

Lemieux is behind Gretzky in every single way except for the number of people who ask "what if...?" Nobody needs ask that about Gretzky because he did.

So getting radiation treatment. (Which actually drains you of energy far more than an nhl game does) is rest? Okay...

 

[capebretoncanadien]

Goddamn it if I don't love hearing new amazing stats about Gretzky when I already hold him as the best hockey player ever by far.

I wasn't old enough to enjoy the first 3/4 years of his career but I feel privileged to have seen the rest of it and Lemieux's too for that matter. I really started to key into the NHL as a kid around the mid 80's.

It's funny people hated on him then as they do now, while he was just obliterating the F out of everything.

 

[capebretoncanadien]

Gretzky played 696 regular season games for the Oilers. He scored 2 or more points in 472 of them. 67.8%.

Do teams even score two or more goals in 67.8% of their games these days?

 

[blogofmike]

So getting radiation treatment. (Which actually drains you of energy far more than an nhl game does) is rest? Okay...

I think he's alluding to Lemieux scoring at a higher pace after his return. While he had slowed down by Midseason and was out due to back pain initially, the late season run may be in part because his back was in better shape.

Whatever the effects can be, reports at the time were that Lemieux felt good enough that he wanted to play. Given the run he went on starting the morning if his last radiation treatment, he may have been able to play earlier.

 

[The Panther]

Could we leave Mario out of this thread, just for once...?

Gretzky's 9 (NHL) seasons in Edmonton continue to look like some sort of sci-fi fictional creation with an NHL theme. How could anyone so slight and completely non-physical dominate scoring by more than 700 points over the 2nd-top scorer for nine seasons? Only 16 games of injury in Dec.'87--Jan.'88 prevented Wayne from winning the Hart trophy for EVERY season he played in Edmonton.

Anyway, for interest's sake, here are the number of games he failed to register a point in, in each season:

1979-80: 17 games (79 played)
Longest pointless streak = 3 games (Oct.1979 and Feb.1980)

1980-81: 13 games (80 played)
Longest pointless streak = 2 games (Oct.1980)

1981-82: 8 games (80 played)
Longest pointless streak = 1 game

1982-83: 4 games (80 played)
Longest pointless streak = 1 game

1983-84: 3 games (74 played)
Longest pointless streak = 1 game (scored in each of the first 51 games)

1984-85: 5 games (80 played)
Longest pointless streak = 1 game

1985-86: 3 games (80 played)
Longest pointless streak = 1 game

1986-87: 10 games (79 played)
Longest pointless streak = 3 games (late March 1987 -- he scored only 2 points in his last 5 games of the season)

1987-88: 6 games (64 played)
Longest pointless streak = 1 game


To summarize, then, Gretzky scored at least a point in 627 of 696 games with Edmonton (90% of total games). From 1981 to 1988, he scored a point in 93% of games.

His longest pointless streak, for a 9-year period, was three games. This occurred three times in nine years.

In the playoffs with Edmonton, he failed to score a point in 15 of 120 games. Three of those occurred in one series -- Detroit vs. Edmonton, 1987 (thanks, Hawerchuk). Interestingly, in 1982 and 1986 -- both springs when the Oilers dramatically failed to meet expectations -- Gretzky scored at least a point in every game.


Other stats, just for fun:
- as an NHL rookie, scored 16 points in 4 games (March 1980)
- 9 goals scored in two games (Dec. 27 and 30, 1981) -- part of a 15-goals-in-five-games stretch
- went six straight games without a goal (March '82) during his 92-goal season
- 123 points scored at home (Northlands Coliseum) during 1981-82 (40 games). This included 59 goals.
- Three times scored over 100 points only on the road (40 games): 1983 (102 points), 1985 (104 points), and 1986 (104 points)
- Five times scored over 100 points only at home (he also did this once in L.A.)
- Scored 43 goals only on the road -- in only 35 games -- during 1983-84.
- 3 times (Feb. '82, Dec. '83, Oct. '84) scored 20 points in 4 games
- scored either 49 or 50 points in 1 month (Nov. 1983) [We've never definitively established if he scored 49 or 50 during this month, officially.]
- 7 goals in last four games of 1985 Finals
- 36 assists in one month (Dec. '85)
- scored 170 points in 63 games against Los Angeles
- scored 39 goals and 83 points in 29 games against Toronto
- scored 1400th point in his 580th game (vs. Pittsburgh, Dec. '86). Scored 1600th point (with Edmonton) at age 26.
- became NHL's all-time assist leader (with Edmonton) one month after his 27th birthday