Would you pay Stamkos more than $4m per to come to Toronto?

[keonsbitterness]

no

 

[Steveei]

hes getting 7m+ on the open market.. at 4m its a no-brainer obviously but its not happening

 

[The Best Leafs Everr]

No thanks, he can rot wherever else he wants but here.

 

[ZEBROA]

Yes. 4.1

 

[Kiwi]

He's going to make building a team at 5v5 extremely difficult

He's a very good PP exponent but when he's on the ice at 5v5 he's a defensive black hole, downright atrocious

So who are we playing him with that can carry his ass?

Matthews? He's a shoot first center who can take tough matchups, so not him

JT? He's struggling enough as is without making his job harder

Holmberg? Doesn't seem like a great mix if he's expected to do some donkey work defensively

I'm struggling to see a fit

 

[The Iceman]

Bertuzzi had 5 fewer goals and the same number of assists at ES, in virtually identical ice time. He had the same number of ES points in the playoffs.

Stamkos was -21 while Bert was +2. Bert's 5 years younger.

It's a pretty silly comparison.

Playoffs are when it counts for the Leafs. One was great, the other was just a guy.

 

[Fogelhund]

If you are spending $4 mil on a forward, and Marner is out the door... it's better spent on Patrick Kane.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Playoffs are when it counts for the Leafs. One was great, the other was just a guy.

Each had 3 ES points in the playoffs last year.

Stamkos used to be good, but Bert may have been the better one in these playoffs.

 

[ITM]

Curious question:

Signing Stamkos to a three-year deal at 34, is different than signing Marleau to three years at 38.

I'd offer 6M x 3 if that's what it took.

The experience, leadership and instant boost to the PP demand this type of reallocation of resources in a model that consistently tries make do with patchwork pieces.

Thinking Berube's going to push our forecheck to new heights. Take a penalty against us and we can muster one or two of: Matthews, Stamkos, Nylander on any given PP.

Seems a no-brainer if the opportunity presents itself.

 

[613Leafer]

Pretty awful defensively. Not overly interested myself as I'm never a fan of having to baby the minutes of a player with a decently big caphit.

 

[ITM]

Exactly, we don't need him now. He can go play for Utah for all I care.

At least JT actually came home to play in TO in his prime.

f*** Stamkos !!!

We have to get beyond that type of thinking.

We have a player or two who betrayed us while pretending to honour the obligations commensurate with the money demanded of our management taken hostage.

The object is to amplify our opportunities during the window we have Nylander and Matthews. Stamkos is a smart reallocation of resources provided the term is reasonable.

The real problem is, Stamkos just watched an Edmonton team come within a goal of the Cup and they're going to have greater initial bandwidth to sign him if they want to.

Moreover, the team he just watched win the Stanley Cup also has greater bandwidth to sign him. And he wouldn't have to move.

We're likely not going to have to shoulder the burden of having a Toronto native with nearly 600 goals and two Cups and two Rockets because two better teams are in front of us.

 

[The Iceman]

Each had 3 ES points in the playoffs last year.

Stamkos used to be good, but Bert may have been the better one in these playoffs.

Scoring on the PP isn't a bad thing.
WE badly need PP guys to score in the playoffs.

 

[mjd1001]

I think he will cost more than that, but I really don't want him on this team. I want a fast skating winger who plays fast and hits, with some ability to score. I'd much rather have that than a guy with a good-but-no-longer great one timer from the top of the circle on the PP, who is still "good" but his game has started to decline.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Worse than JT who’s paid $11M ? You know Stamkos won two cups and scored 40 goals this year ? What’s that worth on a short term deal ?

$4m.
What Stamkos did in the past is not relevant except to the accountants, jersey sales and MLSE bottom line. You have 2 guys who can shoot like him. AM and WN.
He would just take cap space like JT. JT at this point is a good value at $5m.

 

[TheScandal89]

That second line would be a defensive disaster!

Its basically the same line as last year plus Stamkos. I get he was -21 last year but a lot of them struggled in that stat as their teams d core was not great. Like Point was -16 too.

You can't tell me signing Bertuzzi to a 5 year deal is better then Stamkos on a 1 or 2 year deal. Especially after its pretty clear our playoff issues have become power play and scoring.

Anyway, I highly doubt he's gonna leave Tampa. They'll make it work

 

[ACC1224]

I'd rather pay him that then Bertuzzi. Our PP would be way better, teams can't cheat to Matthews side when Stamkos is on the otherside.

Domi - Matthews - Marner
Stamkos - Tavares - Nylander
Knies - Minten - Cowan

With that said, I don't expect it to happen

Yikes
Stamkos- Tavares-Nylander would be minus triple digits collectively.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Its basically the same line as last year plus Stamkos. I get he was -21 last year but a lot of them struggled in that stat as their teams d core was not great. Like Point was -16 too.

You can't tell me signing Bertuzzi to a 5 year deal is better then Stamkos on a 1 or 2 year deal. Especially after its pretty clear our playoff issues have become power play and scoring.

Anyway, I highly doubt he's gonna leave Tampa. They'll make it work

Who was the regular LW with JT and Willy?

Bert? +2
Robertson? +4
Knies? +9

Tavares was horrible defensively, and some (confused) posters say Nylander is worse. Take those two and replace the best defensive player on the line with someone who is worse than either JT or Willy, and you think that's a good idea?

Tampa's defence was so terrible that they allowed 6 more goals than Toronto. If all six of those were taken away from Stamkos' +/-, he would still have a worse one than any Leaf player!

Not to mention that putting two old, slow players on a line with a very fast one probably isn't optimal.

 

[saffronleaf]

not worth it. our needs are different.

 

[Schennanigans]

Use that money on defense instead. Pass.

 

[TheScandal89]

Who was the regular LW with JT and Willy?

Bert? +2
Robertson? +4
Knies? +9

Tavares was horrible defensively, and some (confused) posters say Nylander is worse. Take those two and replace the best defensive player on the line with someone who is worse than either JT or Willy, and you think that's a good idea?

Tampa's defence was so terrible that they allowed 6 more goals than Toronto. If all six of those were taken away from Stamkos' +/-, he would still have a worse one than any Leaf player!

Not to mention that putting two old, slow players on a line with a very fast one probably isn't optimal.

Well that's a little misleading. When you look closely Toronto players combined to be +171, while Tampa was -72.

Besides Hedman who was +18, mostly playing with Cernak who was +5, and Perbix was +8 the rest of the defence was pretty bad. Sergachev was -16 (in 34 games), Lilleberg was -15, De Haan was -9, Dumba -5, Raddysh -3, etc. So yeah there D core struggled. When you look at the team as a whole, the highest is +18 (hedman) then there's a big drop off.

The Forwards, as mentioned Point was -16, but Paul was -16, and Jeannot -10. It appears that its maybe a team thing, and while Stamkos is declining, his minus is very indicative of the team and line mates he had. If he was -13 like Reaves was on a team that's +171 combined, then yeah thats a standout.

So yeah, obviously special teams played a big role for Tampa Bay, and adding one of their best PP guys to our unit that has been terrible in the playoffs and the team can barely score more then 2 goals would help.

 

[The Iceman]

We have to get beyond that type of thinking.

We have a player or two who betrayed us while pretending to honour the obligations commensurate with the money demanded of our management taken hostage.

The object is to amplify our opportunities during the window we have Nylander and Matthews. Stamkos is a smart reallocation of resources provided the term is reasonable.

The real problem is, Stamkos just watched an Edmonton team come within a goal of the Cup and they're going to have greater initial bandwidth to sign him if they want to.

Moreover, the team he just watched win the Stanley Cup also has greater bandwidth to sign him. And he wouldn't have to move.

We're likely not going to have to shoulder the burden of having a Toronto native with nearly 600 goals and two Cups and two Rockets because two better teams are in front of us.

What does bandwidth have to do with cap space?
Florida doesn't have any cap space to sign their own FA, Edmonton tight against it too.

 

[ITM]

What does bandwidth have to do with cap space?
Florida doesn't have any cap space to sign their own FA, Edmonton tight against it too.

Bandwidth: Inclusive of any number of decisions to create room for Stamkos. By having successful programs (and Florida in particular with its proximity and success) the ability to make decisions and move pieces without pressure, is a tool we don't really have access to.

Our construction is obviously flawed. We're not really a Steven Stamkos away from the Finals are we? We're more a Jenga tower to Florida's (and now Edmonton's) designed and built to completion Lego set.

 

[The Iceman]

Bandwidth: Inclusive of any number of decisions to create room for Stamkos. By having successful programs (and Florida in particular with its proximity and success) the ability to make decisions and move pieces without pressure, is a tool we don't really have access to.

Our construction is obviously flawed. We're not really a Steven Stamkos away from the Finals are we? We're more a Jenga tower to Florida's (and now Edmonton's) designed and built to completion Lego set.

can't just swap out 10 guys for 10 better guys.
THe process is one move at a time.

 

[Ports]

$4m.
What Stamkos did in the past is not relevant except to the accountants, jersey sales and MLSE bottom line. You have 2 guys who can shoot like him. AM and WN.
He would just take cap space like JT. JT at this point is a good value at $5m.

I’m not a huge advocate of signing Stamkos but for $4M it’s a no brainer. He’ll likely get $7M+ elsewhere so it’s not happening anyway. Time to move on from JT though. Too slow to play centre anymore and they need to get bigger, faster and more physical on the wing.

 

[Niagara Bill]

I’m not a huge advocate of signing Stamkos but for $4M it’s a no brainer. He’ll likely get $7M+ elsewhere so it’s not happening anyway. Time to move on from JT though. Too slow to play centre anymore and they need to get bigger, faster and more physical on the wing.

Right, bigger faster mote physical on wing. Stamkos is none of those, even at $4m. Let someone else like Utah sign Stamkos fir $7m