Would Peak Jamie Benn Contend For A Scoring Title Today?

[BagHead]

Even if McDavid and Kucherov have down years, there's still like 10 guys who have averaged 1.2 PPG or higher over the last couple of seasons, including MacKinnon who has scored at a 107 point pace or higher in each of the last 5 years. Peak Benn might have an outside chance at the top 10, but he's never winning a Ross against the offensive talent in the league today.

Is your argument that the reason scoring leaders have more points across the board than they did in '14-15 is because the highest scoring players are just that much better than they were back then?

If you recall, Benn was a top-10 scorer for several years at his peak, top-20 for a couple more, and top-2 twice, one of which he won. His peak was short, but very good. I think that's a player who would have an outside chance against McDavid and Kucherov, much like MacKinnon does now.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Is your argument that the reason scoring leaders have more points across the board than they did in '14-15 is because the highest scoring players are just that much better than they were back then?

If you recall, Benn was a top-10 scorer for several years at his peak, top-20 for a couple more, and top-2 twice, one of which he won. His peak was short, but very good. I think that's a player who would have an outside chance against McDavid and Kucherov, much like MacKinnon does now.

Benn has 3 top 10 finishes(8th, 2nd, 1st). Benn was also arguably not even the best player on his team some of those years(Seguin).

Seguin finished with 84 points(4th overall) when Benn hit 79 points and was 8th in scoring. In Benns scoring title year, Seguin finished with a slightly higher PPG than Benn(77 points in 71 games) and still finished 7th in scoring and 2nd in PPG(behind Crosby).

So is it safe to say that if Benn was able to compete with the talent of today, wouldn’t Seguin have a better case for competing for the scoring title over Benn?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

So the reason Benn won the Art Ross was simply due to how the Stars played, pure run and gun. Their forwards would flee the Dzone at the first possible chance of a turnover and their D would fling the puck up ice habitually. No other team played like this. Iirc, Stars games that season averaged 6.26 GPG (higher than the last few seasons), compared to the rest of the NHL which was at 5.3 GPG.

So the answer is no, only because there are more teams who play like this nowadays.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Is your argument that the reason scoring leaders have more points across the board than they did in '14-15 is because the highest scoring players are just that much better than they were back then?

If you recall, Benn was a top-10 scorer for several years at his peak, top-20 for a couple more, and top-2 twice, one of which he won. His peak was short, but very good. I think that's a player who would have an outside chance against McDavid and Kucherov, much like MacKinnon does now.

It's more that there are so many more high scoring players that have come into the league over the last 10-12 years, that there are a bunch of teams with 2 or 3 high end guys on their roster, instead of only a couple of teams. It also pushed a lot of guys down the depth chart, so you have guys who would have been mid-range 1st line talents during Benn's prime now in 2nd line roles, and the former 2nd line guys on the 3rd line, so there's more talent at every level of the depth chart (at least for most teams). As a result almost everyone has better linemates than they would have and is scoring more than their counterparts from 10 year ago.

 

[BagHead]

Benn has 3 top 10 finishes(8th, 2nd, 1st). Benn was also arguably not even the best player on his team some of those years(Seguin).

Seguin finished with 84 points(4th overall) when Benn hit 79 points and was 8th in scoring. In Benns scoring title year, Seguin finished with a slightly higher PPG than Benn(77 points in 71 games) and still finished 7th in scoring and 2nd in PPG(behind Crosby).

So is it safe to say that if Benn was able to compete with the talent of today, wouldn’t Seguin have a better case for competing for the scoring title over Benn?

Seguin had the talent to do so back then, and the scoring rate, so yeah. That is assuming he doesn't miss games in this hypothetical situation, which he did in reality. Benn and Seguin were the highest scoring duo in the league for a while, IIRC.

 

[67 others]

He already beat Kuch, when he won.

Kuch was a 65 point, 29 goal 2nd year up and comer at the time who wouldn't enter his prime until 2017-18. Why is his name even being brought up?

Prime Kucherov outscores prime Benn by 30-50 points pretty standardly.

Benn's win was a weak year offensively. Jiri Hudler, voracek and foligno were top 10 scorers that year. The sedins were nearing retirement. The stars aligned for him.

The guy the OP was quoting was the guy trying to say Crosby faced the toughest field ever and that Benn would outscore mcdavid today and that McDavid isn't that good lol

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Benn would outscore mcdavid today

Nope, didn't say this. I said Benn would compete for a scoring title today.

and that McDavid isn't that good lol

Depends on what you mean by 'isn't that good.' McDavid is a fantastic player and is definitely the best player currently.
But Crosby was a better player at his peak. So if you interpet 'isn't that good' as isn't as good as Crosby was, then sure. Otherwise, no, I never said that McDavid wasn't a good player.

But anyway, this is not the McDavid for Crosby thread, so if anyone wants to discuss that topic, they can tag me over there.

 

[67 others]

Nope, didn't say this. I said Benn would compete for a scoring title today.

Depends on what you mean by 'isn't that good.' McDavid is a fantastic player and is definitely the best player currently.
But Crosby was a better player at his peak. So if you interpet 'isn't that good' as isn't as good as Crosby was, then sure. Otherwise, no, I never said that McDavid wasn't a good player.

But anyway, this is not the McDavid for Crosby thread, so if anyone wants to discuss that topic, they can tag me over there.

Benn would still be a 95-105 point scorer at best. He wouldn't even remotely be scoring in the 140-150 point range to contend with the more elite offensive guys of this day. Benn only won because the stars aligned for him in a weaker scoring year

 

[GreatGonzo]

Nope, didn't say this. I said Benn would compete for a scoring title today.

Depends on what you mean by 'isn't that good.' McDavid is a fantastic player and is definitely the best player currently.
But Crosby was a better player at his peak. So if you interpet 'isn't that good' as isn't as good as Crosby was, then sure. Otherwise, no, I never said that McDavid wasn't a good player.

But anyway, this is not the McDavid for Crosby thread, so if anyone wants to discuss that topic, they can tag me over there.

“Competing” implies that he has a shot against McDavid, which he doesn’t. And never will.

Would love to hear this I bet you can’t make the argument without using imaginary stats, or a “should have, could have” argument.

 

[Pete Taylor]

The dude literally won a scoring title. Just because it was a lower scoring era, does not mean that he has no chance at competing for one. Shocked at the resounding amount of no's to the question. It is different if the question was asking 'Would he win?', he probably wouldn't. Would he compete? Definitely.

 

[67 others]

The dude literally won a scoring title. Just because it was a lower scoring era, does not mean that he has no chance at competing for one. Shocked at the resounding amount of no's to the question. It is different if the question was asking 'Would he win?', he probably wouldn't. Would he compete? Definitely.

In the sense that maybe he snatches the Jiri hudler 2015 8th in scoring spot? Sure. Not top 5 against this new generation of offensive talent

 

[Beau Knows]

I think the game is played a little too differently now for him to be able to pull it off. His game was more suited to that time, I feel like he'd be even more suited for the DPE than today's game.

Even in a perfect storm season like 14-15, I don't think it would happen.

 

[TheGoldenGod]

I voted yes. Prime Benn was an animal.

Another guy I think just missed this new scoring wave was prime Tarasenko. People forget how nasty he used to be before all his shoulder surgeries. Maybe the best pure release at the time and had no problems taking defenders 1 on 1. Great highlight reel during this first 3-4 years.

 

[Gurglesons]

People really forget how good prime Jamie Benn was.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

People really forget how good prime Jamie Benn was.

Yup.

Jt Miller just put up 103 points.........

The game is different now , Benn won his ross fair and square against good competition

 

[Gurglesons]

Yup.

Jt Miller just put up 103 points.........

The game is different now , Benn won his ross fair and square against good competition

If you transport the Benn - Seguin - Radulov line to today's NHL it's still one of the best lines in the league IMO.

 

[Captain Mountain]

What does contend here mean? Top 3? 5? 10? 20?

Peak Benn was fantastic, but his peak also occurred when, for various reasons, a lot of other top players either weren't in their peaks, weren't fully healthy or weren't in environments where they would produce a lot (at least relative to today).

 

[AKL]

"How is this even a question"

Peak Jamie Benn would not produce anything close to the 130-150 points needed to compete for the last couple years. And even in years where 115ish is top 3-5, he's not scoring that much. He's not keeping up with prime McDavid, MacKinnon, Kucherov, etc.

 

[67 others]

this is as lopsided as polls get

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

I was initially surprised that “No” only had 65% and then realized I didn’t read all the choices including the humorous, more correct 4th choice.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Benn would still be a 95-105 point scorer at best.

Benn scored 89 points in a much weaker offensive era, so the idea that he could only score 16 more points 'at best' is very dubious.

He wouldn't even remotely be scoring in the 140-150 point range to contend with the more elite offensive guys of this day.

There are fewer very elite offensive players today than there were during Benn's heyday.

Benn only won because the stars aligned for him in a weaker scoring year

No particular reason the stars couldn't align for him again, with the overall weaker competition nowadays.

 

[67 others]

Benn scored 89 points in a much weaker offensive era, so the idea that he could only score 16 more points 'at best' is very dubious.

There are fewer very elite offensive players today than there were during Benn's heyday.

No particular reason the stars couldn't align for him again, with the overall weaker competition nowadays.

Much stronger competition you mean. The reason scoring is up is because of the emergence of elite scoring talent

And no, Benn wouldn't be in the conversation. Like it or not, that's clearly a majority opinion.

 

[spiny norman]

Lopsided result.