Would any of you undo the Romanov trade ?

Guhle is literally just a younger, better version of Romanov. Best case scenario they're equal, with Guhle still being younger.

You can argue the merits of OFD vs DFD for Matheson. Not a lot of D are capable of having 62 point seasons. I'd rather have Romanov now that we have Hutson, but I'm not going to say Romanov is objectively better. Habs are in the playoffs, Isles are not. Romanov is the #4D on long island. Habs and Isles have essentially the same numbers of goals against while the Isles have a top 3 goalie in the league and the Habs don't even have a verifiable starter. Evidence points that the Habs D are better. :razz:

Guhle isn't better than Romanov. Romanov is ahead of Guhle in most stats.
 
I miss Drouin, we as every talking head states & I agree with Weber for Subban was a clear Habs win. Whether that was the right strategic move vs angling for picks is another matter.
I agreed with the Drouin trade at the time. The gamble was ok, but the decision making afterwards was clueless... didn't set the player up for success at all.

Hated the PK trade and as much as I respect Weber and enjoyed the miracle cup finals run, that trade was a mistake from day one imo.

Monahan deal was a fantastic transaction but for picks not a pro player acquisition
We acquired a pro player, did we not?

Was newhook not a pro player acquisition because we traded picks away?
Vanek was also acquired for picks.
Petry as well.

Not sure I understand why you'd include them but not Monahan?
 
If we talk on players acquired, not picks, so not the whole trades themselves....

UNKNOWN: On value, we missed on Dach. Missed on Newhook. Missed on Gurianov. Missed on Barron.. Missed on Heineman.

KNOWN: But we won on Carrier, won on Laine.

NOTE: I'm not saying we lost the Toffoli trade. 'Cause I do know that we got a 1st too for Toffoli. But players involved, I,m saying that known vs unknown, Hughes-Gorton have a losing record. No wins. They should stop doing that. And concentrate in handing OUR unknown to others for their known...it's time.
I'm not sure what "value" the team missed out on with Gurianov. They traded Weber for a cap dump in Dadonov to get Weber's contract off the books. Dadonov gave the Habs 4 goals in 50 games at $5M cap hit. Not sure what excellent player or prospect they were supposed to get.

And Heineman has been a solid player for them, before he got run over he was a key bottom 6 contributor this year.

As to no wins? Petry for Matheson was a win, then they added to it by reacquiring Petry and getting paid a top 40 pick in this year's draft. And trading cap space for two half seasons of Monahan plus two first rounders was one of the best trades the team has made in 20 years. Notwithstanding the picks, Monahan was a very good middle 6 center while he was on the club.
 
I agreed with the Drouin trade at the time. The gamble was ok, but the decision making afterwards was clueless... didn't set the player up for success at all.

Hated the PK trade and as much as I respect Weber and enjoyed the miracle cup finals run, that trade was a mistake from day one imo.


We acquired a pro player, did we not?

Was newhook not a pro player acquisition because we traded picks away?
Vanek was also acquired for picks.
Petry as well.

Not sure I understand why you'd include them but not Monahan?
Fair enough

As for Drouin - as Molson stated to Mitch Melnick, Habs had a plan in place after NYR series loss $ allocated to Radulov + Markov + Alzner to replace Emelin who was about to be exposed to expansion draft and to help rhe anemic offense Drouin deal to play W with Danault & Gallagher.

The issue was lack of Plan B, C, D….drafting & strategic thinking was MBs downfall
 
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Probably not. I like him, and he's a top 4 D, but overall I was supportive of the trade. We had a lot of Romanov type Ds in our system at the time. Guhle, Struble & Xhekaj for starters.

We also had Edmundson still on the club. He played 61 games for us in 2022-2023. Guhle & Xhekaj were rookies that year. So there was already too many physical LDs, thus a redundancy. Trading from a position of strength was the right move. Our forward position was gawd awful, too. Dach was a good gamble. The fact that it hasn't worked out doesn't change any of that.

Although, at the time I thought we were trading up for Nazar. 😆
 
It was Chicago’s fault Dach didn’t take rehab seriously and was out of shape and behind the play upon his return just like it was Montreal’s fault Dach didn’t take rehab seriously and was out of shape and behind the play upon his return.

There was absolutely no way Hughes could have known Dach is an injury prone player who neglects his fitness. They did their due diligence, who could’ve predicted Dach would possibly loaf around a second time after major injury??

He neglects his fitness ? Where do we get that ? Other than he had a roundish Kessel like hot dog face ? Seriously though, where is this from ?
 
No.

Is Dach panning out? No, not really. Would Romanov be a solid defender with us? Most likely.

But I still would had made that trade at the time because we had (and still have) depth on the left side and a need at center. Let’s also not forget Dach was looking fantastic at times and before his season ending injury, he and Slaf were looking great together.

Really my point is sometimes you need to take that leap of faith and try something different. Sometimes it works, other times it won’t but continuing to do things we’ve always done traditionally is really what got us to that point.
 
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Remove the injury bug. Add the type of player he is. Dach was never known for this hard working kid. Never known for a guy with somewhat of a mean streak. Never known to use his body. I'm telling you that he's not the type of player that administration would draft if they had a choice....but we acquired him anyway. Dach is Pierre Dagenais with a lot more hope.....but still hope to this point. Hopefully it transforms into something else.
I loved him. Great potential. Big, good vision. Seemed to be developing a bit of a snarl to his game. And at the very end he started getting good at charging the net. We lost a really good player.

Personally, I think he’s done. Good news is that I thought the same thing about Markov and was completely wrong.
 
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On day one the Drouin trade was terrible. Drouin had so many red flags immediately (salary dispute, puck hogging, and general bitching because he was not getting the respect he needed as a high draft pick). It was clear he benefitted in Juniors from playing with MacKinnon. And, Sergachev was an immediate need to replace Markov, and it was obvious that he could do it.

The Drouin trade smacked of the 2 decade desire to find a Quebecois star player to relive the stories of the past, or une p'tite gars de chez nous. Since Serge Savard's days, every admin has tried to go after Quebecois stars: aging Savard for Chelios, Donald Audette, Lecavelier, Tanguay, Briere, Juneau, etc. etc. Drouin was just one more, like drafting Louis Leblanc in the first round in Montreal even though he was clearly too skinny ...

Yeah, Gomez trade and the Drouin trades were terrible.

PK trade was fine. Weber was a beast. I would have liked for the Habs to make PK captain, but that wasn't happening because PK's personality is too big ... and maybe that wasn't good for the locker room.

The other bad trades were Roy for nothing, Damphousse for nothing, Desjardins (and John Leclair) for Dr. not enough, Turgeon for not enough, Ribeiro (a lot of baggage, I know) for nothing, .....

Funny, the team spent 25 years trying to get a p'tite gars de chez nous after trading all the gros gars de chez nous listed above! Tabarnak!
 
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Wasn't a fan of Romanov or Dach at that time, would have rather used the 13th pick on something else. Dach was looking great although it was a ridiculously small sample size. There was no "guarantee" that he became the 2C even if I thought he'd become one after that sample size.

Thinking his training camp/preseason/1st game of the season was proof that he was definitely going to breakout is naive. I am no happy with the pro scouting with these projects, especially when we were going for Zegras had Demidov not fallen to us.
 
Wasn't a fan of Romanov or Dach at that time, would have rather used the 13th pick on something else. Dach was looking great although it was a ridiculously small sample size. There was no "guarantee" that he became the 2C even if I thought he'd become one after that sample size.

Thinking his training camp/preseason/1st game of the season was proof that he was definitely going to breakout is naive. I am no happy with the pro scouting with these projects, especially when we were going for Zegras had Demidov not fallen to us.
Not accurate - as Lebrun has stated multiple times the deal was the second 1st round pick for Zegras but when Hage was available Hughes declined the deal, as the Habs wanted Hage
 
Not accurate - as Lebrun has stated multiple times the deal was the second 1st round pick for Zegras but when Hage was available Hughes declined the deal, as the Habs wanted Hage
Friedman said Demidov falling to the Habs made the Habs change their mind (although they obviously weren't going to use that pick for him). Either way, my point is moreso that Dach/Zegras/Newhook is not an encouraging trio that our pro scouting were looking at for projects.
 
Friedman said Demidov falling to the Habs made the Habs change their mind (although they obviously weren't going to use that pick for him). Either way, my point is moreso that Dach/Zegras/Newhook is not an encouraging trio that our pro scouting were looking at for projects.
As Friedman said I’m trying to find out more..

I think Zegras would be an excellent by low asset - both MSL & Hughes coached him in youth hockey, so they know the real person.. not the rumored persona + Ana is simply a bad fit stylistically (not in line w Verbeek & Cronin philosophy)
 
The Romanov trade no. I think Nazar will be the superior player. The Dach trade yeah with hindsight i would. A 13th overall pick for Romanov was incredible value.
 
I don't miss Romanov at all despite him being a solid player for the isles.

Romanov is an average sized defensive top 4 D and Dach is a 6'4 fwd with power and skill to his game, which is very hard to find.

At the very worst Dach ends up a middle 6 fwd with size and skill, but I don't 100% write him off as a top 6 player yet.
Meh, if Dach is to be the 3rd line C, I'd rather we keep Dvorak to be honest.
 
Meh, if Dach is to be the 3rd line C, I'd rather we keep Dvorak to be honest.
Dvorak will turn 30 during the next season. I'd rather we focus on having less 30+ players in this lineup. Dach was a good gamble. Did not pay off time to move on. I have more problem with the Newhook trade personally cause Newhook was very clause to be a known commodity when the trade was made. Dach was a year younger and with a lot more potential to eventually blossom.
 
As Friedman said I’m trying to find out more..

I think Zegras would be an excellent by low asset - both MSL & Hughes coached him in youth hockey, so they know the real person.. not the rumored persona + Ana is simply a bad fit stylistically (not in line w Verbeek & Cronin philosophy)
I mean for that package it's not low asset. Low asset is what the Kraken gave up for Kakko, we would have paid premium for all three of these guys which sin't good asset management.
 
I mean for that package it's not low asset. Low asset is what the Kraken gave up for Kakko, we would have paid premium for all three of these guys which sin't good asset management.
What package? 21OA pick?

I’d do that in a heartbeat back then, with a rebuilding team. Now he’ll be even cheaper 2yrs closer to UFA
 
In hindsight, sure. At the time, I was fine with it.
Exactly. Hockey, and life, are more like backgammon than chess.

In backgammon you choose a strategy, revise depending on your dice rolls, and adapt. Even the best player will lose some games, though not many, to a lucky lesser player.

In chess there is no element of randomness. If you play a perfect game you should at least get a draw. A good player may draw with a less good player, but losses at high levels are rare. Rarer still for non-human opponents.

In hockey it is not just hard to tell if a move is good at the time it is made, it can be hard to tell for several years after. The trade looked good before Dach got hurt, and before it became clear that most of the D in the habs system did not actually make Romanov redundant. If Romanov gets hurt, or Dach gets healthy views could change again.

Most of Hughes' moves depend on young players developing one way or another. He can take good gambles or bad gambles, but if he only makes sure bets, or even quite sure bets, he will get into the "trades are hard" mode that Bergevin got into as he wanted to win every trade. Note that this is much better than Houle who wanted every trade to be even and lost them all.

I don't agree with all of Hughes' moves, but I have far less information and knowledge of hockey. I doubt Dach was his ideal target, but he provided a chance of filling a spot without paying an unacceptable price. It doesn't look like it is going to work out, but it did not cripple the rebuild. I'm not going to rant about it.

I'm iffy on Newhook. He looks good at times, but he's not really effective. He adds some speed they were missing, but he is yet another smaller non-physical forward. He has a year or two to work things out. Again, I might not agree with it, but I'm not going to lose sleep, either.

The Michkov/Reinbacher decision was polarizing, but I can understand the point. The habs have enough smaller forwards that it's tough to use a top pick on another one. Lafreniere showed the challenges of drafting when you already have the spot filled on the top 2 lines long term. I mean sure, BPA is miles better than what the habs have done for decades, "take the next big center on our list even if he'd probably be available in the third round," but BPA is very subjective. Few teams think they are taking the much worse player at whatever position, but there are still lots of busts among the top picks. BPA pretty much translates to "don't screw up" because it becomes an inspired pick if it works out. The habs picks have been more screwups than non-BPA, sure, they reached for size or position, but they did it really badly. The habs drafts often sounded really good when TSN and RDS analyzed them over the last many years, and almost none of the players worked out. The last few drafts have looked weak, and downright weird, lots of goalies, late round picks with even less chance than most late round picks, but a lot of those players are looking good.

The best GMs will have misses, and most of them will also have some costly mistakes. Overall the rebuild looks good so far, they got some good players with the high picks, the team looks competive so far. We may get to see how the team does in the playoffs. The main question is whether they were putting out max effort for their streaks in the regular season, because real contenders will have another level in the playoffs.
 
I'm not sure what "value" the team missed out on with Gurianov. They traded Weber for a cap dump in Dadonov to get Weber's contract off the books. Dadonov gave the Habs 4 goals in 50 games at $5M cap hit. Not sure what excellent player or prospect they were supposed to get.

And Heineman has been a solid player for them, before he got run over he was a key bottom 6 contributor this year.

As to no wins? Petry for Matheson was a win, then they added to it by reacquiring Petry and getting paid a top 40 pick in this year's draft. And trading cap space for two half seasons of Monahan plus two first rounders was one of the best trades the team has made in 20 years. Notwithstanding the picks, Monahan was a very good middle 6 center while he was on the club.
On value doesn't mean EXCELLLENT PLAYER OR PROSPECT for Dadonov. And as I took the time to say, the Toffoli trade in itself is not bad...but wouldn't we have use for Toffoli like right about now? How is Heineman, as fine as I think he is come close to that value?

Clearly...you don't get the point I'm making....talking trades KNOWN VS UNKNOWN...how the heck was Matheson an unknown? He had played 7 years in the pros didn't he?
 
Clearly...you don't get the point I'm making....talking trades KNOWN VS UNKNOWN...how the heck was Matheson an unknown? He had played 7 years in the pros didn't he?
I would only speculate, being Hughes’ client from his teens, the GM potentially had insight for usage etc. other teams might not have had
 
Of course you would in retrospect. But when you do future type of trades, you have to accept that there is inherently a significant risk that things won't pan out the way you had anticipated.
Future type of trade for Dach was idiotic at worst and quite a far fetched gamble at best. I could think of several better options at that time including doing nothing. That said if we don't have Dach when PLD is looking for a new deal, then we don't have an option to get a 2nd C right? We didn't even pulled that trigger.

The Romanov trade and subsequent Dach obsession is a string of pretty questionable moves, in hindsight, when it's all over and Dach is no more a member of the org, I'm pretty sure the majority would undo it all if they could.
 
No. If you want to trade for a top 6 C that is 6'4 you probably have to take some gambles. Even if that trade hasn't panned out yet, it is the type of trade that shows me how smart Hughes and Gorton are. Also Dach isn't finished yet, could still pan out into a good middle 6 winger.
 

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