Would a soccer style loan system work in the NHL?

[SeaChaser]

I'm a hockey fan. What is this "soccer" thing?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Last time I checked football was the number one sport in the world.

Even if you check only countries that have ice hockey, then football is still ahead everywhere except Canada and Finland.

Actually, ice hockey does something wrong if it can't beat football even in winter countries like Russia, Sweden and Norway.

so? Just because something is the most popular doesn't mean its the best

Aren’t they between different leagues? Not sure how it would work in the NHL and what purpose it would serve

they can be in the same league. In Italy for example Juventus usually has like 20 different guys loaned out to a bunch of bottom table teams every year

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

This doesn’t really go against the cap though. All cap hits are transferred. The advantage is that it might allow a team to loan a player on a long term deal to a team that only wants to try that player for a shorter period of time because they aren’t sure about how he’ll fit or because their future cap structure won’t allow it.

What's the incentive tho? It's essentially a trade that reverses.

What benefit would Calgary get from loaning out Rasmus Andersson and then having to send back whatever they got for him in the swap?

 

[Cloned]

What's the incentive tho? It's essentially a trade that reverses.

What benefit would Calgary get from loaning out Rasmus Andersson and then having to send back whatever they got for him in the swap?

They don’t send back what they got unless it was a loaned player as well.

 

[Ghost of Murph]

Will never happen in the NHL. The injury factor alone would nix it. Player development is another huge reason when it comes to younger players. A team can't tell another team how it wants its player developed. As someone else mentioned, the players union would never allow it for multiple reasons.

More of an idea for a sim management game than anything real world. It's really not even needed to begin with in today's NHL.

Soccer is not comparable to the NHL. Umteen leagues across the continents. Thousands of pro players representing most every country. Different financial structure and rules. Different objectives and league/tournament structure than the NHL. Completely different beast.

 

[Chileiceman]

One thing that OP did not mention (I have not read whole thread to see if it's been pointed out elsewhere) is that in soccer the player must agree to the loan. Generally they do because it will be their only opportunity to gain meaningful playing time that season. So for those saying that the PA would not agree to this system, they probably would if they had the ability to have final say on the loan proposal. In many cases it could help a player's career.

 

[1989]

The NHL is just one example of a professional sports league - it doesn't represent how international professional league management systems have to work, and it's certainly not likely that it's the only system that works for hockey, but it is the most entrenched one currently.

A few things come to mind:

• I don't believe the loan system (and the oft-suggested relegation system) would work in hockey for many reasons, one being that hockey is a much smaller sport internationally and player development from loaning doesn't really work well without a larger pool of decent international professional leagues.
• The NHLPA probably doesn't want their players to be sent to European professional leagues where the team quality tends to be on par or even worse than the AHL or ECHL unduly (being the big fish in a small pond is not great development), and the NHL doesn't appear interested in letting teams play around with salary cap more than it already is.
• In the current system, NA players especially already see the KHL and other pro leagues as last-chance options. NHL/AHL teams assign players to their ECHL affiliates - asking the player to willingly negotiate a new contract seems like it would just never happen depending on the league because the player doesn't see it as a real opportunity.

 

[AvroArrow]

Teams would turn tanking into a profitable business.

 

[sr edler]

Teams should make text message loans instead.

 

[varsaku]

No and there's no need for it. There's a loan system in European hockey but it's only used for young players that are either too good or too old for the U20 team but needs to play senior hockey, so these kind of players gets loaned to lower leagues. Since the NHL doesn't have promotion/relegation no such system is needed since young players can be sent to the AHL if they're not good enough for the NHL.

If you a Cup contender, instead of having top prospects buried in the AHL it would be better to loan them to rebuilding teams to get more NHL experience. This is what it would ultimately be used for. I would assume limited veterans would be loaned out even in the NHL if possible.

 

[1989]

If you a Cup contender, instead of having top prospects buried in the AHL it would be better to loan them to rebuilding teams to get more NHL experience. This is what it would ultimately be used for. I would assume limited veterans would be loaned out even in the NHL if possible.

Ultimately it feels like you can't loan players without also introducing a relegation system within North America.

The current system of non-relegation with a lottery draft does nothing to incentivize the bottom team as they don't want to place any higher for their own future interests, so adding veteran talent or developing prospects who aren't their own seems counterintuitive to their own long-term goals.

I just don't think you can implement one system (loans) without the other (relegation/no draft lottery).

 

[ItWasJustified]

If you a Cup contender, instead of having top prospects buried in the AHL it would be better to loan them to rebuilding teams to get more NHL experience. This is what it would ultimately be used for. I would assume limited veterans would be loaned out even in the NHL if possible.

And who's roster spots on the rebuilding teams are they taking? The veterans with contracts and valuable experience or the rebuilding teams own prospects that need NHL minutes?

Again, a loan system doesn't work without promotion/relegation.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Yeah but you may think if sports that big is doing something that hockey isn't?

COST????

 

[bobholly39]

An easier thing would be "rentals" that happen every TDL.

Example - this TDL. Pittsburgh out of playoffs. Pittsburgh trades Crosby to Colorado as a rental, in exchange for a first round pick.....and the promise that Colorado trade him back after playoffs for future considerations.

I'm surprised this has never happened. I wonder if the rules allow it or not.

One complication is - there's a lot of emotion and hatred in hockey. It might be weird for a player to switch allegiance to a team, knowing it's only temporary and that he's going back to his other team.

Also - injury risk. In the above example with Crosby and Colorado - imagine Crosby gets a major, even career ending injury while playing for Colorado? Too big a risk for Pittsburgh.

 

[MHO]

If you a Cup contender, instead of having top prospects buried in the AHL it would be better to loan them to rebuilding teams to get more NHL experience. This is what it would ultimately be used for. I would assume limited veterans would be loaned out even in the NHL if possible.

This is the only exception to my main thought. Loaning in soccer or 'football' most often happens when a player goes to a team in a different division. It's incredibly rare for a loaned player to actually play against his true team while being loaned to another. My main thought is that in hockey, a team can simply send a player to the AHL.

But yeah, if a player is ready for the NHL and there simply isn't a spot for him, it could make sense. The problem is that it would open a pandora's box of so many union issues that it just wouldn't be worth it.

 

[sinDer]

Last time I checked football was the number one sport in the world.

Even if you check only countries that have ice hockey, then football is still ahead everywhere except Canada and Finland.

Actually, ice hockey does something wrong if it can't beat football even in winter countries like Russia, Sweden and Norway.

It's the number one sport in the world for obvious reasons. It has nothing to do with hockey or any other sport doing something wrong.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Loans only work because demotion stops people from tanking.

That’s a great point.

My first instinct is it would be a bad idea but that’s mostly because when I was a casual soccer fan, loans confused me. “Wait. They’re playing for that team now?? But just for a little bit because their still our teams player???”

 

[robertmac43]

I don't think it would work from a business perspective. Many of those reasons have been said.

I do think it would be interesting though. Maybe player A is off to a slowish start, wants a change of scenery for development purposes, and requests a loan to a weaker team where minutes will be easier to come by.... Now that would be great for the team loaning the player, but there really isn't any motivation for the other side to accept the player. Why get someone that could make them better in a tank year?

I guess the one thing that could work in favour of the team accepting the loan is you can try selling that player on your long term project, the City, etc. Maybe put some seeds of doubt in their head and make them want to sign with you in free agency.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Can people stop with the “it’s called football” snobbery? It was called soccer all the way back in 19th century England.

It’s not some random name stupid Americans made up.

Teams would turn tanking into a profitable business.

Oh man can you imagine what the Coyotes would’ve done if the league allowed loaning players??

 

[Ciao]

If that did happen, players would just negotiate clauses in their contracts to prevent such loans.

I don't think the NHLPA would ever agree to this anyway.

 

[OysterForever]

Soccer’s popularity is due to the influence of British trade routes in the late 19th and early 20th century. It has nothing to do with the modern structure of its professional leagues.

Some of that could be. But more of it is because it is a cheap sport that is readily available for anyone. Don't need a lot of equipment and "rink".

 

[benfranklin]

Sounds dumb.

 

[jkrdevil]

Some of that could be. But more of it is because it is a cheap sport that is readily available for anyone. Don't need a lot of equipment and "rink".

Not really from a historic perspective. It is not a coincidence that the most popular sport in virtually every country is “football.” It just depends on what version of “football” it is. Soccer got spread through British trade routes to rest or Europe and South America. Meanwhile rugby football was spread through the English college / school systems where the rules evolved into local varieties such as American football, Aussie rules ect. There is wasn’t much cost of equipment in the early days is either code, though soccer had more of a working class aesthetic from its trade routes history.

Sports fandom culture is something that is handed down generationally for the most part.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

No need for this type of circumvention if GMs manage their allotted cap space well. Why are we always trying to find work arounds or introduce new exceptions? Everyone has known the rules for 20 years. Just abide by them.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Basically, Team A has a player under contract that they want to keep in future years, but for whatever reason they are OK with loaning him out for a certain period of time to Team B.

Team B is on the hook for whatever salary is owed to the player for the remainder of that time period, as well as the pro rated cap hit.

Team A and Team B negotiate a price for the swap, which may include picks, players or even a swap of loans.

At the end of the time period all loaned players, salaries and cap hits return to their original teams. Maybe in certain cases there can be clauses that can make a loan move permanent for the duration of the contract.

Would this work in the NHL? Would it help with teams trying to manage the cap? Would the players be on board?

Tbh, I think that it would add more possibilities for teams. I‘d be in favor of it.