Worst trade? Zibanejad / Duchene / Karlsson / Pacioretty / Forsberg

[Profet]

Which trade was the worse?

For a long time it was Forsberg. Then, I think the Duchene/Byram deal started to get more press....Stutzle suddenly making the Karlsson deal look horrendous.

However, watching Zibanejad now....it might be that deal now. Zibanjead might be a top 10 C by the end of this season.

Psst... Zibanejad is already a top 10 C.

 

[ijuka]

Zib trade was a gamble that paid off for the Rangers, but at the time it wasn't seen as a home run.

Uh, are you sure about that? I can vividly remember everyone thinking that trade was amazing for Rangers.

 

[Profet]

Uh, are you sure about that? I can vividly remember everyone thinking that trade was amazing for Rangers.

Keep in mind that at the time, the Ottawa fan base were severely hating on Zibanejad and his off ice DJing.

Many people (inside Ottawa and around the league) felt like Zib wasn't as interested in Hockey and was focused more on outside activities.

The trade may have been the wakeup call he needed to refocus on hockey and may have been integral to him becoming the player he currently is.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I remember feeling a huge sense of dread when Zibanejad looked like the next Datsyuk at the WJCs. #1C written all over him. I definitely had a feeling of relief when he was dealt, not unlike when Seguin was dealt.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Forsberg. Caps might have another Cup if they didn't make that trade.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Still Forsberg.

At the time of the Zibanejad trade, many, many Rangers fans were pissed off. It's easy to forget now that Brassard was coming off his best season and was a 1B center.

Lots of trades end up being poor with the benefit of hindsight. It takes a special kind of bad for everyone on the planet except for the GM who made it to go "WTF" the day it was made.

I don't remember this most people were happy in that thread from what I remember.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I don't remember this most people were happy in that thread from what I remember.

I remember a lot of people were sad to lose Brassard but due to the age difference and Zib's pedigree thought it was still a really good value

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I remember a lot of people were sad to lose Brassard but due to the age difference and Zib's pedigree thought it was still a really good value

It would be better value if Mika had a better haircut!

 

[Profet]

I remember a lot of people were sad to lose Brassard but due to the age difference and Zib's pedigree thought it was still a really good value

The breakup of the Zucc/Brassard bromance was a really sad day.
Little did we know that it would lead to the league's ultimate bromance of Kreider/Zib.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

What was Ottawa thinking trading Zibanenjack

Zibanejad wouldnt have hit this level in Ottawa. He has said it himself, the trade was a huge wakeup call.

Still a bad trade... that said, in addition to the above, Brassard was pretty solid with us and the return was solid when we dealt him. The current pieces we have as a result:

Direct:
1) Cam Talbot (traded straight up for Gustavsson)
2) Jacob Bernard Docker (selected with one of the picks acquired by Ottawa when they dealt Pittsburgh's 1st to NYR)
- Noteworthy: the Pens pick (#22) was used on K'Andre Miller; Ottawa acquired the 26th & 48th pick, which is great value in a vacuum, and Tychonick, who they used their 48th pick on, was seen as a potential 1st rounder; ironically, many of the prospect "gurus" like Scott Wheeler pointed to Tychonick as a rare case in which Ottawa made a good pick . In retrospect, staying at 22 and selecting Miller, or selecting Mattias Samuelsson at 26th & Kirill Marchenko, Adam Ginning, Akil Thomas or Sean Durzi at 48th would have been the best value choice... but Bernard Docker should still be a good 4/5D.

Indirect:
1) Mads Sogaard - pick used to select him was a combination of PIT 3rd & FLA 2nd (acquired in the Karlsson deal)
2) WSH 2nd 2024
- The pick we received for Ian Cole, who was initially part of the return, was sent to Toronto in the Zaitsev/Brown for Ceci deal. This is an imperfect translation of value, but worth noting.

So, all in all, you could probably break it down as Zibanejad & 2nd for:
1) A deeper run in the playoffs in 2018 - maybe Zib gets them as far or farther, but Brassard was a really steadying influence for us down the middle and Zib was not yet a consistent player
2) At least 1yr of a good 1A goalie
3) A solid prospect who should be an NHL DMan for us
4) Helped acquire a goaltending prospect who is touted as our goalie of the future
5) Helped us acquire a 2nd in next years draft

So yeah... I'd rather have Zibanejad. But the trade should still have some positive outcomes for us for a net total of 5+ competing seasons.

 

[Xspyrit]

At the time of the Zibanejad trade, many, many Rangers fans were pissed off. It's easy to forget now that Brassard was coming off his best season and was a 1B center.

"Big Game Brass" was pretty good in the playoffs too

No doubt Sens were getting a good player but... he was 6 years older than Zibanejad and had a long injury history list. It was risky and even more because Zibanejad clearly had untapped potential.

You have to give to get but in that case, Dorion should have gone after someone else if he to give up Zibanejad...

many of the prospect "gurus" like Scott Wheeler pointed to Tychonick as a rare case in which Ottawa made a good pick

Wheeler is always hilarious, Tychonick is one of the Sens prospects that have busted the fastest in recent history. It didn't take that long before we realized it was a rare Sens bad pick.

 

[Volica]

Between Erat and Mika for me.

Erat's a bad trade because you should never trade your blue-chip prospect unless you're getting the significantly best player in the deal. Like, unless someone is stepping into your 1C, 1D or elite league-wide 1RW/LW role, do not trade your blue-chip prospects. When someone is 18 and going PPG in a men's league overseas, and was a consensus top 15 pick at the draft... don't trade him. That was a known commodity that they blew.

Mike is a bad one because it's senseless. Trading a 22/23 year old centre for a 28/29 year old centre that produces similarly is such a weird concept. I get if you move on from your young centre, if it's in a deal you're getting an in-prime, clear upgrade in the trade when it reflects the position of your window... but this one didn't make much sense in general.

The other ones are 'meh' to me. I hate when people have to include what the firsts ended up in order to sway the deal in one direction. Karlsson sort of fell off the map when he got traded, and it reflects poorly and the same thing for Duchene. The other trades were people paying really weird prices on very mediocre pieces.

 

[God]

It's Erat/Forsberg and it really isn't close. They gave up a top 10 prospect for a winger who would've never be considered top 25 in the league at any point in his career.

The Zibanejad trade sucked but I think there were salary reasons for it too. Ultimately it sucks for Sens fans, but you can't pick ownership.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Karlsson trade isn't like the other ones. He was a superstar and everybody knew he was going to return a nice package of futures. Fortunately for the Sens they panned out. Unfortunately for the Sharks, EK never really returned to form for longer periods of time.

Even the Pacioretty one, Vegas wanted to get a good scorer and Pacioretty was a proven 30+ goal guy. Hurts in hindsight but he was a top line winger.

Erat and Brassard though? GM's gave up young players with high upside for 2nd liners. There's no justification for that.

Duchene one was also bad and I couldn't believe my eyes at the time how much the Sens were willing to give up, but at least they recouped some assets from Columbus.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Karlsson trade isn't like the other ones. He was a superstar and everybody knew he was going to return a nice package of futures. Fortunately for the Sens they panned out. Unfortunately for the Sharks, EK never really returned to form for longer periods of time.

Even the Pacioretty one, Vegas wanted to get a good scorer and Pacioretty was a proven 30+ goal guy. Hurts in hindsight but he was a top line winger.

Erat and Brassard though? GM's gave up young players with high upside for 2nd liners. There's no justification for that.

Duchene one was also bad and I couldn't believe my eyes at the time how much the Sens were willing to give up, but at least they recouped some assets from Columbus.

Even with hindsight, Sens ended up with 2 top 6 C's. I think it belongs in this tier. By the time he was dealt, he was slowing down from injury and wasn't carrying play like he used to, and everyone knew he'd get a big contract.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Most of these are mostly bad in hindsight, unlike the Forsberg trade which was abysmal the second it was made

 

[blinkman360]

Feels good that enough time has passed that we're not seeing Milbury's gems listed in polls anymore. A couple of my favorites:

1) Luongo and Jokinen for Parrish and Kvasha (also factor in they did this so they could draft DiPietro 1st overall, so without trading Luongo, by all accounts that pick was going to be Gaborik).

2) Chara, 2nd overall(Spezza), + for Yashin

That 2001-02 Isles team will forever hold a special place in my heart, but I can't help but think about what the Islanders could have accomplished without making these two moves. Hell, even if they still made the Peca trade and nothing else.

But yeah, everything in the poll is pretty bad. I'm leaning towards Forsberg since it just made absolutely no sense even at the time, but the Zibanejad trade is right up there as well.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Was a rationale ever provided for trading Forsberg for Erat? It's a trade that was dumb at the time.

 

[Vachon23]

Forsberg by far

At least in the other trade, the players they got in return had a certain impact

 

[Brodeur]

What was Ottawa thinking trading Zibanenjack

Not that it excuses the trade, but there was a financial component to it. Ottawa's owner usually wouldn't let them spend to the cap, so sometimes they were more concerned about a player's actual salary than his cap hit.

The trade was made on July 18 after the Rangers paid Brassard's July 1st signing bonus. Brassard's deal was also frontloaded which was attractive to Ottawa since the Rangers already paid the expensive years.

Brassard (for Ottawa)
2016-17: 3 million
2017-18: 3.5 million
2018-19: 3.5 million

Zibanejad
2016-17: 3.25 million (RFA after season)
2017-18: 6 million (5.35 mil AAV on extension)
2018-19: 5.5 million

And from a roster construction POV, Ottawa's top 3 centers in 2015-16 were all right handed: Zibanejad, Kyle Turris, and J.G. Pageau. I'm sure there was a secondary thought that it would be nice to get a lefty in there.

 

[thekernel]

Forsberg was bad and did not make sense at the time; Erat was not going to be the difference for the Caps as a rental. The Zibanejad trade is a close second that made little sense beyond ownership not wanting to pay Zibanejad.

Karlsson looks bad due to hindsight and his current contract. San Jose made the conference final with Karlsson. Martin Jones turning into the worst goalie in the league at the time is what makes it really brutal.

The Pacioretty one is similar as well, Tatar was not working out for Vegas and they were legitimately in win-now mode.

The Duchene trade was a gamble for Ottawa that just did not pay off. They were looking to take a step back, but falling off a cliff was completely unexpected.

Yeah I'm glad you basically typed this out so I didn't have to. Every one of these trades had some semblance of logic -- except for the Forsberg trade. Trading a blue-chip for a mid-tier rental was widely accepted at the time as completely horrible, and it remains completely horrible to this day.

The EK erasure has been sad to see. He was an early Conn Smythe candidate during that Sharks run, which juiced his value for negotiations. If that version of him held up for maybe 1 more good run, we would be debating who won the trade (and that 1st round pick wouldn't be Stutzle).

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I have this weird memory of Erat actually being pretty good when traded. We all knew it was bad, but if I am not mistaken, Erat also just kind of collapsed in Washington. Checked his stats, looked like before the trade he peaked just below 60 points -oof.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Even with hindsight, Sens ended up with 2 top 6 C's. I think it belongs in this tier. By the time he was dealt, he was slowing down from injury and wasn't carrying play like he used to, and everyone knew he'd get a big contract.

Sure, but the Kings might've drafted Stutzle and Sens someone else. Norris didn't light college on fire and some might say he's been a bit better than anticipated as well. Regardless, point is, the Sens were expected to get promising futures and that's what they got. How exactly they pan out in the end is never truly known, superstars are valued higher in the present.

As far as I remember, some people of other fanbases even thought the Sens should've got a bit more at the time and the trade had some different opinions, with people salivating at the idea of EK and Burns on the same blueline. EK was only 1 year removed from a season that most people consider his best 2-way season ever, so there was a lot of optimism he'd return to form. I think he did for the Sharks for some time too, until things took a turn for the worse.

In any case, I don't think it was considered a terrible trade in a vacuum. Just had some variables, that ended up going against the Sharks in the end.

SJ initially made a big push for Tavares, if they got him instead and passed on EK, someone else would've given the Sens a package that was something similar, or close to it, and then those assets either worked out or didn't. So in a sense trade like this was expected.

Not like Forsberg for Erat, that made people go "what?" the moment it happened. Even with Filip just being a prospect, acquiring a 2nd liner didn't seem worth it. Rather just a desperate move to do something.

 

[Captain97]

To me it has to be the Karlsson trade its possible 2 of the players in that deal end up as Point per game 30+ goal centres.

Two at worst 1B centres (say 65-70 points) going 1 way in a deal is insane.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Easily Forsberg.

People that voted arent old enough to have been fans during the times of both trades.

An 18 year old Forsberg was traded for one season (in which he scored 1 goal) of Martin Erat plus an AHLer

A 23 year old Zibanejad was traded for 2 seasons of a top-6 center in Brassard who was then parlayed in a deal for a 1st round pick, which was then parlayed to a later 1st round pick and a 2nd round pick.

The Zibanejad trade ended up lobsided, but its really not close to getting Forsberg's entire RFA eligiblity for basically free