Worst Ever Playoff Performer Relative to Talent...

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

Until his recent performances with the Capitals this thread had TJ Oshie written all over it. Just think of it like this... 22 of his 31 career playoff points have come in these last 2 seasons with the Caps. And before that he had 9 points in 30 career playoff games.

He's obviously not at Yashin's level but I've watched a lot of Blues playoff hockey over the years and Oshie was nothing short of a massive disappointment. I'm glad that he's finally living up to his potential in DC

 

[quoipourquoi]

Busted seems like kind of a strong word.

(~1.00+ PPG RS were selected)
Year / RS PPG / PO PPG
1993 / 1.57 / 1.00
1997 / 1.40 / 0.91
1999 / 1.43 / 1.00
2001 / 0.99 / 0.33
2006 / 1.13 / 0.88
2007 / 1.15 / 0.71
2011 / 1.10 / 1.17

There aren't any other instances where Selanne was over 0.67 PPG in his 6 other postseasons.

The only one that even looks bad out of that set is the one where he had a broken thumb (2001).

1993: 4 goals in 6 games (2 GWGs) on a 2-4 team
1997: 7 goals in 11 games (1 GWG, 1 GWA) on a 4-7 team
1999: 2 goals in 4 games on a 0-4 team
2011: 6 goals in 6 games on a 2-4 team

In 2006 and 2007, he was going up against ~200GA teams like Calgary, Minnesota, Vancouver, and Detroit which severely cut down on powerplay shooting but the ES goal production didn't waiver.

2006: 0.28 RS, 0.31 Playoffs
2007: 0.28 RS, 0.24 Playoffs

He wasn't exactly on some high seed that was rolling over weak defensive opponents in round one to maintain his regular season numbers throughout his career. He played just three playoff series at his peak, and two were against Detroit. He's not going to have a ~1.40 against Detroit. Very few players could even break 1.00 against teams like that (we just ran the numbers last week). Just another good player on bad teams that converted his scoring opportunities but wasn't getting big assist numbers from his teammates' chances until 2006 and 2007.

 

[MS]

Marcel Dionne and Andy Bathgate among top 100 players

I think it's unfair to harp on playoff production for guys like Dionne who spent basically their entire career on bad teams.

These guys generally squeak into the playoffs on a low-seeded team, promptly play a stacked Cup favourite in the first round, have no offensive support so get keyed on in all their matchups, and of course generally lose quickly. To have put up terrific numbers in that situation would be almost impossible.

Look at Ron Francis. He was a 'terrible' playoff performer in Hartford. 22 points in 33 games when he was a 90-100 point player. Then he goes to a good team in Pittsburgh and he's 'magically' a high-scoring playoff performer.

It's so much easier to put up numbers on a top team that's playing an 8th seed to start with every year than to try and do the reverse.

__________

Back to the original question, Jean Ratelle with the Rangers from 1967-75 is probably the worst-ever extended playoff performance from an elite player on a top team. 9 goals in 65 games.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Jarome Iginla?

For all the talk about he was "best leader in the world" a warrior, a winner etc.. he sure didn't bring it in the playoffs.

He had the one cinderella run but other then that he just wasn't very good, he would put up a couple garbage time points but more often than not would go missing in a series.

 

[MXD]

Jarome Iginla?

For all the talk about he was "best leader in the world" a warrior, a winner etc.. he sure didn't bring it in the playoffs.

He had the one cinderella run but other then that he just wasn't very good, he would put up a couple garbage time points but more often than not would go missing in a series.

Can you, eerrrhhhmmmm.... actually support this?

Iginla is generally a tad overrated, but was way too good as a playoff performer to be named dropped alongside players like Alexei Yashin in this thread.

 

[reckoning]

Thomas Vanek's 34 pts in 63 games was fairly disappointing for a one-dimensional offensive player with an annual cap hit of $7M.

That's when he actually made the playoffs. Usually he would do a late-March/early-April disappearing act when the Sabres were fighting for a playoff spot, then come through with a big game on the last day of the season after they'd already been mathematically eliminated from playoff contention.

 

[Michael Farkas]

In 2007, I thought Vanek was really impactful...but even the box score doesn't really do much for him there...the rest of his playoffs, I could do without though...

 

[SatanwasaSlovak]

the year before his official rookie season, tkachuk was called up to the jets near the end of the regular season after the olympics. he played vancouver in the first round of the '92 playoffs. he was great: hit everything that moved, changed the momentum of games without even touching the puck, was generally a giant handful and just looking like he was going to torture us for the next twenty years. he scared the living crap out of us.

who knew that was the best he'd ever been after march?

Just like Bertuzzi, it was their style. It wears you down even how fit you are, it's going to take a toll on you. Hence why they don't look the same in the playoffs where everybody else is trying to stay on you, stay sharp and play to their absolute best and your style relies on your body doing a lot of hard work, but the amount of fire-crackers is not there to use.

I think it's due to their style that they never looked as impressive in playoffs. And it's probably got a lot to do with why they dropped off in numbers aswell after a couple of seasons.

Ovechkin was smart, he reinvented himself even though the fans and "experts" started calling him lazy.

 

[HitoftheMillennium*]

Vanek is a great mention.


I didn't realize his playoffs numbers are as lackluster as they are.


I guess this explains why GM's wouldn't give up anything of substance for him at the TDL.

 

[The Panther]

Wait, did someone nominate Iginla??

Up to age 30, Iginla had scored 45 points in 48 playoff games. He hasn't even played 82 playoff games yet, but has 37 goals and is +7, including one dominating run to the Finals.

He should never have been mentioned.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I think it's unfair to harp on playoff production for guys like Dionne who spent basically their entire career on bad teams.

These guys generally squeak into the playoffs on a low-seeded team, promptly play a stacked Cup favourite in the first round, have no offensive support so get keyed on in all their matchups, and of course generally lose quickly. To have put up terrific numbers in that situation would be almost impossible.

Look at Ron Francis. He was a 'terrible' playoff performer in Hartford. 22 points in 33 games when he was a 90-100 point player. Then he goes to a good team in Pittsburgh and he's 'magically' a high-scoring playoff performer.

It's so much easier to put up numbers on a top team that's playing an 8th seed to start with every year than to try and do the reverse.

the francis analogy is interesting. so he was scoring two points in every three games in hartford. okay, not his fault, the team was bad. but then look at his first year in pittsburgh, when they won the first cup: 17 points in 24 games. that is almost exactly his career average in hartford.

he magically became a phenomenal playoff scorer in his second year in pittsburgh.

 

[Zegras Zebra]

the francis analogy is interesting. so he was scoring two points in every three games in hartford. okay, not his fault, the team was bad. but then look at his first year in pittsburgh, when they won the first cup: 17 points in 24 games. that is almost exactly his career average in hartford.

he magically became a phenomenal playoff scorer in his second year in pittsburgh.

It's just the hype of playing with a Stanley Cup contender versus playing on an also ran.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I think it's unfair to harp on playoff production for guys like Dionne who spent basically their entire career on bad teams.

These guys generally squeak into the playoffs on a low-seeded team, promptly play a stacked Cup favourite in the first round, have no offensive support so get keyed on in all their matchups, and of course generally lose quickly. To have put up terrific numbers in that situation would be almost impossible.

Look at Ron Francis. He was a 'terrible' playoff performer in Hartford. 22 points in 33 games when he was a 90-100 point player. Then he goes to a good team in Pittsburgh and he's 'magically' a high-scoring playoff performer.

It's so much easier to put up numbers on a top team that's playing an 8th seed to start with every year than to try and do the reverse.

__________

Back to the original question, Jean Ratelle with the Rangers from 1967-75 is probably the worst-ever extended playoff performance from an elite player on a top team. 9 goals in 65 games.

The thing is that Dionne was often getting outscored by teammates in the playoffs. Teammates who who blew away in the regular season.

 

[daver]

I know that OV has rightfully been dismissed as a candidate but does he have the worst playoff resume relative to his talent in terms of team success? Or does Dionne still take that prize.

 

[MXD]

I know that OV has rightfully been dismissed as a candidate but does he have the worst playoff resume relative to his talent in terms of team success? Or does Dionne still take that prize.

AO went further than Dionne, but he also had better teams and was a bit more gifted.

The prize for "worst playoff resume relative to his talent in terms of team success" probably belongs to Pre-WWII netminder Roy Worters.

 

[MS]

The thing is that Dionne was often getting outscored by teammates in the playoffs. Teammates who who blew away in the regular season.

He was?

The only time from 1976-81 where he didn't lead or co-lead LA in playoff scoring was in 1978, when the team scored 2 goals in a 2-game series.

In 1982, he was 2nd in team scoring to Daryl Evans' fluke run, but still led the team in goals.

In 1985, he scored 3 points in a 3-game series, but his linemate Dave Taylor scored 4.

This isn't 'often getting outscored by teammates he normally blew away'. And outside of 1982, we're talking ridiculously small sample sizes.

 

[arrbez]

Keith Tkachuk was an awful playoff performer. I'd add in: Thornton, Max Pacioretty, Mats Sundin.

Sundin was a real solid playoff performer. He was a virtually identical player in the postseason as in the regular season.

 

[HitoftheMillennium*]

Sundin was a real solid playoff performer. He was a virtually identical player in the postseason as in the regular season.

Sundin was absolutely - without any shadow of a doubt - nowhere near Yashin or guys like Vanek, Nash or Pacioretty.

Not. Even. Close. Not in the same universe.

Case closed.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Wait, did someone nominate Iginla??

Up to age 30, Iginla had scored 45 points in 48 playoff games. He hasn't even played 82 playoff games yet, but has 37 goals and is +7, including one dominating run to the Finals.

He should never have been mentioned.

If people are bringing up Ovechkin and Selanne I think it is plenty fair to nominate Iginla.

You would think for all the talk about being a great leader and best player in the world he would be able to get out of the 1st round more than once.. (other times he was carried in Boston and Pittsburgh.)

 

[The Panther]

If people are bringing up Ovechkin and Selanne I think it is plenty fair to nominate Iginla.

Ovechkin is a poor selection as well, but at least with he and Selanne we can say their overall production in the playoffs is below their overall production in the regular season. This is NOT the case with Iginla. Example:

Regular season: 0.837
Playoffs: 0.840

If anything, he's produced better than you'd expect in the playoffs. And he's led his team to the Finals, leading the NHL in goals. I mean, what more do you want from the guy??

You would think for all the talk about being a great leader and best player in the world he would be able to get out of the 1st round more than once.. (other times he was carried in Boston and Pittsburgh.)

You would think that if you're simple enough to think individuals = teams.

After the Flames' 2004 Cup run, they went out in the first round four straight seasons, yes. But Iginla scored 14 goals in those 26 games, or nearly 25% of his team's total goals, while he got a point on 42% of the team's goals. It's not good enough?

All four of those years, the Flames lost to strong teams. Two teams were way above them in the standings, and one team was even -- which was Chicago on the rise in 2009. Only one team finished below Calgary and beat them -- and that was Anaheim in 2006, a year before they won the Cup (and Iginla scored 5 goals in the series). There's nothing to fault him for.

I mean, seriously, did Iginla steal your girlfriend or something?

 

[Alwalys]

Drop in the following players' RS PPG rank to PO PPG rank (minimum two playoff and regular season years):

Dionne (1975-76 to 1985-86): 6th to 24th
Bathgate (1955-56 to 1963-64): 3rd to 22nd
Thornton (2001-02 to 2015-16): 6th to 36th

This is pretty misleading though. You got a lot of guys with much smaller sample sizes while Thornton has played 139 playoff games over that stretch. If you look at players that played over 100 playoff games over that stretch he's 9th. Among players that played as many or more games than Thornton he's first, though Zetterberg edges him with 2 less games played.

What is interesting is that Thornton's shot rate increases in the playoffs. And he is relied upon fairly heavily defensively, with only about a 50% 5v5 zone start rate, which is lower than just about all players above him on the scoring list.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Jarome Iginla?

For all the talk about he was "best leader in the world" a warrior, a winner etc.. he sure didn't bring it in the playoffs.

He had the one cinderella run but other then that he just wasn't very good, he would put up a couple garbage time points but more often than not would go missing in a series.

Not a popular opinion, but as somebody who watched a good majority the playoff games he played in Calgary, I agree with you. There were plenty of games where he was just wasn't nearly as involved as you'd expect for a guy who often got talked up as the second coming of Mark Messier.

I think part of that was the Darryl Sutter brand of coaching that demanded a full throttle grind-em-down style from his teams from training camp onwards. Iginla, and those Calgary teams in general just didn't have that second gear when the intensity ramped up in the playoffs and every team was suddenly working just as hard as they were.

 

[MXD]

Not a popular opinion, but as somebody who watched a good majority the playoff games he played in Calgary, I agree with you. There were plenty of games where he was just wasn't nearly as involved as you'd expect for a guy who often got talked up as the second coming of Mark Messier.

I think part of that was the Darryl Sutter brand of coaching that demanded a full throttle grind-em-down style from his teams from training camp onwards. Iginla, and those Calgary teams in general just didn't have that second gear when the intensity ramped up in the playoffs and every team was suddenly working just as hard as they were.

It's not a popular opinion because it doesn't make sense, and people generally like to make assertions that make sense, thus, they refrain from putting forth arguments that doesn't make sense. Iginla saw an increase in production during playoffs. Then again, we're talking about a user who (self-censored).

And Iginla might have been touted as the 2nd coming of Messier in some circles, but he definitely wasn't such second coming because he didn't have the talent for that.
And, well, looking at the thread title...

 

[MXD]

If people are bringing up Ovechkin and Selanne I think it is plenty fair to nominate Iginla.

You would think for all the talk about being a great leader and best player in the world he would be able to get out of the 1st round more than once.. (other times he was carried in Boston and Pittsburgh.)

Please state facts to support your assertion (once again).

 

[Kyle McMahon]

It's not a popular opinion because it doesn't make sense, and people generally like to make assertions that make sense, thus, they refrain from putting forth arguments that doesn't make sense. Iginla saw an increase in production during playoffs. Then again, we're talking about a user who (self-censored).

And Iginla might have been touted as the 2nd coming of Messier in some circles, but he definitely wasn't such second coming because he didn't have the talent for that.
And, well, looking at the thread title...

If you're strictly adhering to the narrow scope of the thread title, a lot of names mentioned so far don't make sense. I believe what the other user was getting at, and what I was agreeing with, is that Iginla seemed to have the reputation of some sort of great playoff warrior and leader, when in reality his play was actually mildly disappointing in the playoffs outside of one specific year.