GDT: World Juniors 2024-25

[Davimir Tarablad]

Sheltering a #4/5 offensive dman is an approach I can't stand. We need the stud defenseman to also be the top minutes player and the top point producer, this is not negotiable

I wouldn't consider those things to be mutually exclusive. We were able to shelter Dunn on our way to the Cup. That said, I do think the approach of having the Parayko pairing being absolutely buried while having to shelter the middle pairing isn't conducive to success.

 

[PocketNines]

I am also against the idea of having a sheltered offensive-defenseman in the top 4, but based on your previous posts, you seem attached to the idea of having that super elite defenseman lead the backend. Obviously that would be ideal, but they don't exactly grow on trees. Clearly, Makar and Quinn Hughes are the best in the league right now, but would someone like Jaccob Slavin, Aaron Ekblad, or Miro Heiskanen fit that criteria in your mind?

If that defenseman makes a quartet with Broberg, Lindstein, Paryako (who should be sturdy for another few hundred games), then Broberg shouldn't be the offensive leader of the quartet, it should be the unknown player (to have a Stanely Cup caliber corps). And that player should be an all situations player who you don't have to shelter. Ekblad and Heiskanen fit that bill relative to their defensive corps. Slavin's not a huge point producer. I think Slavin not being a more productive defenseman holds that team back a bit actually, they keep struggling to find a PPQB and they need more of an all in one player IMO

 

[PocketNines]

I wouldn't consider those things to be mutually exclusive. We were able to shelter Dunn on our way to the Cup. That said, I do think the approach of having the Parayko pairing being absolutely buried while having to shelter the middle pairing isn't conducive to success.

Pietrangelo was that player on the Cup team, he played the most minutes all situations and he is now #42 on the all time points list for defensemen. Dunn was a luxury who was helpful and useful (and who did have to be sheltered) on top of Petro-Parayko-Bouwmeester-Gunnarsson as the foursome

 

[BlueMed]

If that defenseman makes a quartet with Broberg, Lindstein, Paryako (who should be sturdy for another few hundred games), then Broberg shouldn't be the offensive leader of the quartet, it should be the unknown player (to have a Stanely Cup caliber corps). And that player should be an all situations player who you don't have to shelter. Ekblad and Heiskanen fit that bill relative to their defensive corps. Slavin's not a huge point producer. I think Slavin not being a more productive defenseman holds that team back a bit actually, they keep struggling to find a PPQB and they need more of an all in one player IMO

What you're describing is a super elite defenseman, and I don't think a team inherently has to have one to contend. For example, Florida had a strong committee last year, and Carolina won a championship without one years ago. You did mention Ekblad with high regard, but I don't see him in that category. He's clearly a top pairing defenseman, but he was part of a strong pack playing alongside Forsling (who played the most minutes in the playoffs), Montour (top powerplay unit quarterback), and OEL. If the Blues can get a top pairing RHD to play alongside Broberg, while Parayko and Lindstein handle the second pairing, then I think that would work assuming the forward prospects are developing as expected. Maybe Army/Steen can pry Simon Nemec out of NJ for a nice package involving Bolduc and another forward prospect(s).

As a side note: Slavin and Parayko have virtually identical production over their careers so far...
Slavin 282 points in 701 games (0.402 ppg)
Parayko 278 points in 696 games (0.399 ppg)
That kinda means Parayko is a bit underrated league-wide since he's already in the upper echelon defensively.

 

[PocketNines]

What you're describing is a super elite defenseman, and I don't think a team inherently has to have one to contend. For example, Florida had a strong committee last year, and Carolina won a championship without one years ago. You did mention Ekblad with high regard, but I don't see him in that category. He's clearly a top pairing defenseman, but he was part of a strong pack playing alongside Forsling (who played the most minutes in the playoffs), Montour (top powerplay unit quarterback), and OEL. If the Blues can get a top pairing RHD to play alongside Broberg, while Parayko and Lindstein handle the second pairing, then I think that would work assuming the forward prospects are developing as expected. Maybe Army/Steen can pry Simon Nemec out of NJ for a nice package involving Bolduc and another forward prospect(s).

As a side note: Slavin and Parayko have virtually identical production over their careers so far...
Slavin 282 points in 701 games (0.402 ppg)
Parayko 278 points in 696 games (0.399 ppg)
That kinda means Parayko is a bit underrated league-wide since he's already in the upper echelon defensively.

Look at what Brock Faber is doing to Minnesota's chances. Is he a "super elite defenseman."

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Pietrangelo was that player on the Cup team, he played the most minutes all situations and he is now #42 on the all time points list for defensemen. Dunn was a luxury who was helpful and useful (and who did have to be sheltered) on top of Petro-Parayko-Bouwmeester-Gunnarsson as the foursome

We needed Petro to be that all situations guy because we didn’t actually have a quartet. We had a trio, then a pile of 5/6 quality guys. JBo averaged 7min per game than the 4th D during the 2019 playoffs.

Off the top of my head none of these Cup winners had an all situations #1 D.
2024 Panthers
2023 Vegas
2018 Caps
2017 Pens

The all situations guy would be ideal as it covers more bases, but defense by committee works if you’re able to cover the same bases.

 

[PocketNines]

We needed Petro to be that all situations guy because we didn’t actually have a quartet. We had a trio, then a pile of 5/6 quality guys. JBo averaged 7min per game than the 4th D during the 2019 playoffs.

Off the top of my head none of these Cup winners had an all situations #1 D.
2024 Panthers
2023 Vegas
2018 Caps
2017 Pens

The all situations guy would be ideal as it covers more bases, but defense by committee works if you’re able to cover the same bases.

We need a RHD better than Parayko.

Pens 2017 are always one of the noted exceptions
Carlson was an all situations #1 D in 2018
Petro was an all situations #1 D in 2023
Ekblad didn't get much PP time so that was more of a committee

 

[MortiestOfMortys]

It goes without saying that having a top-10 player in the league in any position would be nice. We haven’t had a true, indisputable one in awhile. Brett Hull maybe? We’ve had lots of very good players, and we have a handful of them now with hopefully more on the way. We won the cup in 2019 without a top-10 one though. So I get when people say things like we’d be a better team with a true #1D, or a 100-point forward, because like of course we would be. But I don’t think the handwringing over not getting any particular one makes a lot of sense either. It’d be cool if we ever get a McDavid or a Bedard or whoever, god knows this team deserves one. But the likelihood that happens in the next 10 years, barring a — god forbid — Stillman sale is very low. So our game is about doing better than everyone else with what we can have. I see that vision, and I’ve been pleasantly surprised with Tony Feltrin and Co’s ability to find talent in the draft.

Anyways I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Count out Adam Jiricek at your own risk. We’re only starting to see what he can do, but the flashes of real high-end talent are there. We’ll see if he can get there.

 

[SirPaste]

It goes without saying that having a top-10 player in the league in any position would be nice. We haven’t had a true, indisputable one in awhile. Brett Hull maybe? We’ve had lots of very good players, and we have a handful of them now with hopefully more on the way. We won the cup in 2019 without a top-10 one though. So I get when people say things like we’d be a better team with a true #1D, or a 100-point forward, because like of course we would be. But I don’t think the handwringing over not getting any particular one makes a lot of sense either. It’d be cool if we ever get a McDavid or a Bedard or whoever, god knows this team deserves one. But the likelihood that happens in the next 10 years, barring a — god forbid — Stillman sale is very low. So our game is about doing better than everyone else with what we can have. I see that vision, and I’ve been pleasantly surprised with Tony Feltrin and Co’s ability to find talent in the draft.

Anyways I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Count out Adam Jiricek at your own risk. We’re only starting to see what he can do, but the flashes of real high-end talent are there. We’ll see if he can get there.

I think an argument can be made that Petro was a top 10 D when we won the cup. Also Pronger was the the best Dman in the league in the early 2000s which was after Hull.

That said, I do agree with your point

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

To add to the Stancl discussion:

Taller players tend to take a little longer to peak and I see that with Stancl. So his WHL stats are fine I think.

I like the Handzus comparison. But the guy he really reminds me a lot of is Brock Nelson. They both just play a very pro game. Brock Nelson also took a while to peak with NYI. Both have great sneaky shots that are underrated. Both have great hands in tight.

I do see some #2 Center upside with Stancl. Like others have said, if he can slightly improve his skating he can be something special. The rest of his game is very good..,

This is an excellent comparison. You’re right.

 

[Mike Liut]

if Dvo isn’t careful, Stancl is going to jump him in our next prospect rankings.

 

[GettingYourMoms]

if Dvo isn’t careful, Stancl is going to jump him in our next prospect rankings.

Stancl is already MacKinnon tier prospect. Jokes aside match with Slovakia will tell us more about where he stands. For Blues fans it will be the most attractive match to watch because it will be Blues prospects battling each other.

 

[PocketNines]

Can't wait for Czechs Slovaks today after the Blues game

I think an argument can be made that Petro was a top 10 D when we won the cup. Also Pronger was the the best Dman in the league in the early 2000s which was after Hull.

That said, I do agree with your point

Those two examples literally are the reason that point he is making is not true, that is the massive disconnect going on

 

[HighNote]

I think an argument can be made that Petro was a top 10 D when we won the cup. Also Pronger was the the best Dman in the league in the early 2000s which was after Hull.

That said, I do agree with your point

Those two examples literally are the reason that point he is making is not true, that is the massive disconnect going on

I think the point still stands when he says this:

It goes without saying that having a top-10 player in the league in any position would be nice. We haven’t had a true, indisputable one in awhile.

Pietrangelo wasn't an indisputable top 10 defender. I'd argue that he was during his prime, but it's not indisputable if I have to argue it. Pronger I would say is the last indisputable top 10 player we've had at a position, and since it's been 20 years since he was on our roster, I would consider that to be "awhile" ago at the least.

The last two decades for us have been teams built around depth with guys that are almost elite/superstars sprinkled on top (Pietrangelo, Tarasenko, O'Reilly, Parayko, Bouwmeester). I think the Blues hope for that next group of almosts to be Thomas, Kyrou, Dvorsky, Buch and hopefully a Lindstein or Jiricek. Maybe Parayko will be our Bouwmeester.

We won the cup in 2019 without a top-10 one though.

This I disagree with though. I believe that Pietrangelo was a top 10 defenseman that season, and I think THAT is indisputable. His play in the playoffs was nothing short of incredible and I'd argue he deserved the Conn Smythe just as much as O'Reilly did.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Stenberg scores on a rocket PP one-timer from Lindstein! Won't be the last time we see that! 3-1 Sweden over Switzerland right now.

 

[PocketNines]

Incredible shift by Stenberg at the end of that first period, just incredible

I think the point still stands when he says this:

Pietrangelo was a top 10 defenseman during his decade here. I can't use the existence of people disputing that as legitimate. People exist who think the world is flat. That doesn't mean it's disputable that the earth is round.

Over a thousand games and PPG of .59811 vs .59447. One of those players is Petro one is Pronger

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

We need a RHD better than Parayko.

Pens 2017 are always one of the noted exceptions
Carlson was an all situations #1 D in 2018
Petro was an all situations #1 D in 2023
Ekblad didn't get much PP time so that was more of a committee

I think we’d be fine with a guy who’s equal in quality to Parayko.

Carlson definitely wasn’t an all situations guy, especially during Niskanen’s tenure with the Caps.
And while Petro may have been capable of being one, he wasn’t deployed as one with Theodore being utilized as the offensive guy.

 

[HighNote]

Incredible shift by Stenberg at the end of that first period, just incredible


Pietrangelo was a top 10 defenseman during his decade here. I can't use the existence of people disputing that as legitimate. People exist who think the world is flat. That doesn't mean it's disputable that the earth is round.

Over a thousand games and PPG of .59811 vs .59447. One of those players is Petro one is Pronger

Are we talking points only?

 

[PocketNines]

I think we’d be fine with a guy who’s equal in quality to Parayko.

Carlson definitely wasn’t an all situations guy, especially during Niskanen’s tenure with the Caps.
And while Petro may have been capable of being one, he wasn’t deployed as one with Theodore being utilized as the offensive guy.

John Carlson averaged 25:58 during the 17-18 Cup run. He played 20:12 at even strength, 3:38 of PP time and 1:47 per game of PK time. Definitely wasn't an all situations guy? What are we doing here

Are we talking points only?

I feel like the Petro argument is insane

because we're saying that a player who, over a thousand NHL games, scored fewer than 4 points less than one of the greatest defensemen of his generation, both taking top minutes in all situations, both the undisputed best defender on their team.

but also "debatably" wasn't a top 10 NHL defenseman???

what is happening

 

[PocketNines]

Stenberg is special

 

[TheOrganist]

Stenberg does look really good.

 

[TheOrganist]

So according to Korac’s interview with Tim Taylor, Stenberg & Lindstein will both be playing SHL for another year and plan on coming over to the States in summer of 2026, correct?

 

[PocketNines]

Looking forward to Dvorsky vs. Stancl later

 

[GettingYourMoms]

Looking forward to Dvorsky vs. Stancl later

Rivalry is second to none between Slovaks and Czechs. Slovaks allway playing their best against Czechia, should be fun game, that can go either way. Expecting very close match.

 

[StlBigFly]

So according to Korac’s interview with Tim Taylor, Stenberg & Lindstein will both be playing SHL for another year and plan on coming over to the States in summer of 2026, correct?

I didn’t catch the interview but hunting for it.

I think that makes sense but if Stenberg’s minutes don’t improve by the end of this season I’d guess they’d consider moving him before the next one? I feel every time somebody who is following that situation closely comments on it they’re mentioning he’s not getting much ice time.