World Cup: Sep 4 GDT - Sweden vs. Finland

[Riddarn]

With that being said, I surely wouldn't mind if Sweden faced Germany instead, but if the Swedish team is not good enough to beat the Czechs it does not matter one way or another.

But it sure would have been nice to have seen this team in one more game. Now it will end in the quarter final

 

[mattihp]

I fail to see why you (and many with you) put so much emphasis on the opposition. There is no silver, bronze, fourth place etc.. the only thing that counts is winning the tournament. If you are going to win the tournament you are bound to face the toughest opposition. There would be no reward for the Finnish team if they reached the semi finals and was there eliminated while the Czechs or the Swedes already were eliminated in the quarterfinals.

With that being said, I surely wouldn't mind if Sweden faced Germany instead, but if the Swedish team is not good enough to beat the Czechs it does not matter one way or another.

No matter what, it's more fun to see the team play more games, even if one of the games is a bit easier.

 

[psycho_dad*]

The "you have to beat everyone" mentality is wrong. You dont have to win everyone. It is so much easier to beat Germany than the Czechs...its so much easier to beat USA or Russia than Canada...It was a big WIN. Score was a tie but everyone knows it was a win. Finland won their pool with that tie. Sweden came second.

 

[Predatore]

Now it will end in the quarter final

hey, cheer up. But not too much! you have predicted that Sweden more or less would get run over in the past two games so please continue to do that..

No matter what, it's more fun to see the team play more games, even if one of the games is a bit easier.

well, don't count on it (Belarus). Hopefully we will not see a quarterfinal choke like that in a long, long time no matter which nation is involved. It sure makes the semi finals less interesting

 

[H/H]

The "you have to beat everyone" mentality is wrong. You dont have to win everyone. It is so much easier to beat Germany than the Czechs...its so much easier to beat USA or Russia than Canada...It was a big WIN. Score was a tie but everyone knows it was a win. Finland won their pool with that tie. Sweden came second.

Either you will win the World Cup or you won't. No buts or ifs about it.

Which means you have to beat Canada. Or even worse, you have to beat the team that beat Canada.

The winner of the World Cup = Winner.
Everyone else = Losers.

That you won the Round Robin group doesn't matter. Fact is, it's pretty meaningless. Sooner or later you'll face the big team anyway.

 

[psycho_dad*]

I fail to see why you (and many with you) put so much emphasis on the opposition. There is no silver, bronze, fourth place etc.. the only thing that counts is winning the tournament.

I think you came up with that after the game last night. I will be extremely happy with a second or third place...even fourth is more than was suggested before the tournament. Winning is just one thing....I hope Finland finishes in the top 3.

Winning would of course be best, but you all would ridicule it and call it luck or something..

 

[Riddarn]

hey, cheer up. But not too much! you have predicted that Sweden more or less would get run over in the past two games so please continue to do that..

Well Fredrik isn't around and somebody has to pick up the slack

 

[mattihp]

Well Fredrik isn't around and somebody has to pick up the slack

Swedes sound depressed and pessimistic like finns
Finns sound jolly and optimistic like swedes

The forums were together for waaaaay too long....

 

[Predatore]

I think you came up with that after the game last night.

well, if you payed attention to the whole post you would have seen that I also stated that I would have prefered to face Germany as well.

I will be extremely happy with a second or third place...even fourth is more than was suggested before the tournament. Winning is just one thing....I hope Finland finishes in the top 3.

finally, that is a good point. The only thing that counts for the Swedish team is to win. This is likely the best team we have ever had on ice and everyone is expecting them to win.

The Finns have been considered a dark horse and by many not a serious contender. Thus I understand that to you a 2-4th place would basically mean that the Finnish team would have exceeded their expectations. While the Swedish fans/media would only be satisfied if team Sweden won.

 

[Riddarn]

While the Swedish fans/media would only be satisfied if team Sweden won.

I would be satisfied if they reach the semi finals. That is what should be expected. Anything more than that is bonus. Besides, to reach the Finals we have to face Canada I think in which case they should book their flight home early and start packing their bags so that they are ready to head home and wait for their CBA-conflict induced vacation.

 

[mattihp]

I would be satisfied if they reach the semi finals. That is what should be expected. Anything more than that is bonus. Besides, to reach the Finals we have to face Canada I think in which case they should book their flight home early and start packing their bags so that they are ready to head home and wait for their CBA-conflict induced vacation.

BS. With that team (if you disregard the coach, which the north american medias do) the expectations should be to take home the silver quite easily for team sweden.

 

[H/H]

There is no silver.

 

[Predatore]

I would be satisfied if they reach the semi finals. That is what should be expected. Anything more than that is bonus.

I think it is safe to say that you (and Fredrik perhaps ) are the minority that share that opinion. There is absolutely no reason to send a top 2-4 team on the paper to a tournament like this if you don't think they have a real shot at the final IMO.

 

[mattihp]

There is no silver.

Figure of speech.

 

[Shack]

This contrived BS is ridiculous.

Agreed.

It was the best game on tournament so far and both teams were playing to win the game.

In my opinion it is same whome you'll face at the quarterfinal. You can even lose to Belarus heh ...

 

[Riddarn]

BS. With that team (if you disregard the coach, which the north american medias do) the expectations should be to take home the silver quite easily for team sweden.

Not really. Swedish teams never go far in tournaments with all the best players present. Why should we expect them to this time? Besides, I see no reason to disregard Hardy, I mean everybody (well except the north americans perhaps) knows that he's there.

 

[mattihp]

Not really. Swedish teams never go far in tournaments with all the best players present. Why should we expect them to this time? Besides, I see no reason to disregard Hardy, I mean everybody (well except the north americans perhaps) knows that he's there.

Swedish teams have never been that great either.

 

[Predatore]

Not really. Swedish teams never go far in tournaments with all the best players present. Why should we expect them to this time? Besides, I see no reason to disregard Hardy, I mean everybody (well except the north americans perhaps) knows that he's there.

- This is best team (on the paper) we have ever had (no superstar missing, most players are on top of their career.. well besides the goalies. I'd say that this team is a few notches better than the "best teams" we have had in the past)

- All talk about Hardy is a bit exaggerated/overrated (I dislike him a lot though ). There are more people involved than Hardy and IMO it is more up to veterans like Sundin, Alfredsson to lead the team than Hardy. These are not inexperienced juniors that need that sort of guidance and motivation. This is in a way quite typical for fans in general. When the national team goes winning game after game, the coaches never receive any praise ... people only talk about the players performance. But as soon as the team loses, everything more or less is blamed on the coach.

 

[Riddarn]

Swedish teams have never been that great either.

On paper perhaps. You saw for yourself that this team can't play defense. Impressive names on paper is no guarantee the swedes will suddenly break free from their habit of choking. Sweden has never ever have won two playoff games in a row in the Canada Cup/World cup.

 

[Riddarn]

But as soon as the team loses, everything more or less is blamed on the coach.

Well in Hardys case it often is true. He is passive in his coaching stile. His line combinations and defensive pairings are often flat out weird. The swedish team also has a habit of looking a bit unprepared in the beginning of the games. Also his standard answer to EVERYTHING is to dump the puck and work down low.

 

[Predatore]

Well in Hardys case it often is true. He is passive in his coaching stile. His line combinations and defensive pairings are often flat out weird. The swedish team also has a habit of looking a bit unprepared in the beginning of the games. Also his standard answer to EVERYTHING is to dump the puck and work down low.

- Hardy is not the only one involved when it comes selecting the line combos and D-pairings. I am also pretty confident that Sundin, Forsberg etc aren't those small scared little mouses that just listen to everything Hardy says withouth giving him feedback, thoughts, suggestions about the line combos.

- Before Hardy Sweden played defensive (some called it boring). Many try to make it sound that we was so much successful back than, but statistically we weren't really that much better + the competition is much tougher now.. with more strong teams involved. "dump the puck and work down low" - I actually think that has been the weakness of this team so far. They haven't done it enough. Players like Kim Johnsson, Forsberg etc have moved the puck slowly through center ice and they lost the puck just when they passed the blue line.. and before even any potential pressure on the play was achieved.

The main thing I can't fully understand right now is though the defensive pairings (Kim Johnsson-Nicklas Lidström). Johnsson really needs a stay-at-home defensemen beside him in this level of competition IMO, especially since he is so risky with the puck.

 

[Riddarn]

- Hardy is not the only one involved when it comes selecting the line combos and D-pairings. I am also pretty confident that Sundin, Forsberg etc aren't those small scared little mouses that just listen to everything Hardy says withouth giving him feedback, thoughts, suggestions about the line combos.

You're probably right, but in the end it is still Hardys call and as you say, the defensive pairings are not good..

- Before Hardy Sweden played defensive (some called it boring). Many try to make it sound that we was so much successful back than, but statistically we weren't really that much better + the competition is much tougher now.. with more strong teams involved.

I know, thats why I've always supported Hardy but what finally did it for me was the benching of Ragnarsson. How the **** can you bench one of the few players able to keep the crease clean before an important game against the Finns?

"dump the puck and work down low" - I actually think that has been the weakness of this team so far. They haven't done it enough. Players like Kim Johnsson, Forsberg etc have moved the puck slowly through center ice and they lost the puck just when they passed the blue line.. and before even any potential pressure on the play was achieved.

Agreed. But why aren't they acting after their gameplan then. Seriously the only lines playing simple and smart are the grinders.

Johnsson really needs a stay-at-home defensemen beside him in this level of competition IMO, especially since he is so risky with the puck.

Why didn't Hardy just go with Johnsson - Ragnarsson? They know eachother well enough.

 

[Jussi]

So much for the "hatred" among the players. The Finnish equivalent of Sportnytt (for you Swedes) showed a bit from team Finland's practise session and at the end of the segment Foppa was talking with Teemu, Ossi and Riku (?) in a very relaxed manner.

 

[Predatore]

How the **** can you bench one of the few players able to keep the crease clean before an important game against the Finns?
.

well the reason is pretty clear. He (or Dahlén or whomever) felt that not letting a quality defenseman like Tärnström play a single game would not been fair. That is the only (stupid) explanation there can be (unless Ragnarsson had a minor injury, but I guess we would have known about that at this point).

I am 100% sure that the Swedish staff wouldn't have scratched Ragnarsson had this been the quarterfinal instead of a game in the group stage, and in a way that sort of gives out the attitude "this game is not that important".

Agreed. But why aren't they acting after their gameplan then. Seriously the only lines playing simple and smart are the grinders.

I actually think that Sundin's line is doing a pretty good job as well. Especially Alfie, who in the previous WC-tournament lost the puck several times.. now he is really dumping the puck.. and heck.. even trying to catch the dump himself
The main concern is the Forsberg line and a lot can be blamed on Foppa and Näslund. Zettergberg is an excellent "chaser" and Forsberg needs to get his act together, although obviously too much shouldn't be put on him since he is still recovering from his operation basically.

Why didn't Hardy just go with Johnsson - Ragnarsson? They know eachother well enough.

I wish we knew. But then again, too much shouldn't be put on the staff. It all comes down to the players not doing their job good enough. Johnsson hasn't been this shaky in his own end in previous international tournaments, he sure isn't this shaky with the Flyers.. so he sure as *bad word* shouldn't be it here.

 

[H/H]

Well in Hardys case it often is true. He is passive in his coaching stile.

Not really. He's not very animated on the bench. I prefer that. Coaches who gesture and talk too much is usually compensating for lack of something else.