World Cup: Sep 1 GDT - Czech Republic vs. Sweden

[Leo Naphta]

how about...

- Excellent leadership (Mats Sundin)
- Certain players stepping up (Fredrik Modin, Henrik Zetterberg)
- Effective power play (5 power play goals in 2 games)
- Excellent boxplay (no goals allowed)
- Strong physical play (Marcus Nilson, Samuel Påhlsson, Mattias Norström, Mattias Öhlund etc)

Yeah, well, that is the other side of the coin, and it is quite possibly enough to carry us to the semis. But, Sweden is in this to win, and unless certain players start stepping up - most importanly Tellquist but also Forsberg, Näslund, and to a certain extent Lidström - and Hardy changes around in the lineup - he badly needs to change the defensive pairings and start playing Forsberg and Näslund (wasn't he right wing yesterday?) at their natural positions - we don't have a team good enough to beat Canada in Air Canada Centre.

 

[Leo Naphta]

Well Niklas Lidström isn´t your averge offensive defensemen. He is among one of the best defensivly too. Second, Hardy are trying to get this team ready to beat Canada, and that is what it is going to take to win the WC. If his goal was to dominate against the Chechz/Finland/Germany he would have dressed Tärnström... If you have seen Canada play you know that we only have four guys who can match them in our end, Ragnarsson/Norström/Öhlund/Tjärnqvist. Lidström and Kim Johnsson has the potential to keep the puck within the team, especially with one of our first two lines infront of them. They didn´t play that way against the Chechz, especially Kim Johnsson who was terrible defensivly...

I think that a lot of us have at least three worries about the defensive pairings:

If you play Lidström with Johnsson you effectively deprive the second pair of any offensive potential (let's face it, we would all rather see Lidström join the rush than Ragnarsson)

A pairing consisting of Lidström and Johnson isn't physical enough to handle the best power forwards in the world - I'd rather have Ragnarsson moving Iginla out of the crease than Lidström.

A pairing consisting of Ragnarsson and Norström is too immobile to handle speedy counterattacks - I'd be far more comfortable with either Johnsson or Lidström backchecking when St Louis is breaking away than with Ragnarsson or Norström.

 

[qwad]

I think that a lot of us have at least three worries about the defensive pairings:

If you play Lidström with Johnsson you effectively deprive the second pair of any offensive potential (let's face it, we would all rather see Lidström join the rush than Ragnarsson)

A pairing consisting of Lidström and Johnson isn't physical enough to handle the best power forwards in the world - I'd rather have Ragnarsson moving Iginla out of the crease than Lidström.

A pairing consisting of Ragnarsson and Norström is too immobile to handle speedy counterattacks - I'd be far more comfortable with either Johnsson or Lidström backchecking when St Louis is breaking away than with Ragnarsson or Norström.

Leo, couldn't agree with you more.

 

[GKJ]

who took hejduk's place in the lineup?

Who cares


Why is he sitting. If they had him they might have been able to pull out a tie at least...

 

[Riddarn]

D: Six mor Jörgen Jönssons

Maybe if those six Jörgen Jönssons were 6'3, 210 pounds who skated like PJ Axelsson and played as physical as Marcus Nilson. This team is too weak on the wrong positions. The Canadians will crush this as it is now.

 

[Kronblom]

Who cares


Why is he sitting. If they had him they might have been able to pull out a tie at least...

Like he did versus Finland...?

 

[GKJ]

Like he did versus Finland...?

Well look at the effort for the Czechs vs. Finland as opposed to Sweden.

 

[Seiza]

I think that a lot of us have at least three worries about the defensive pairings:

If you play Lidström with Johnsson you effectively deprive the second pair of any offensive potential (let's face it, we would all rather see Lidström join the rush than Ragnarsson)

A pairing consisting of Lidström and Johnson isn't physical enough to handle the best power forwards in the world - I'd rather have Ragnarsson moving Iginla out of the crease than Lidström.

A pairing consisting of Ragnarsson and Norström is too immobile to handle speedy counterattacks - I'd be far more comfortable with either Johnsson or Lidström backchecking when St Louis is breaking away than with Ragnarsson or Norström.

Very good points Leo! This is exactly my concern. I feel Hardy has paired players who play too much like eachother to cover up all aspects of the game. Like you say, the mobility of our second unit and the strenght of our first unit.

Maybe if those six Jörgen Jönssons were 6'3, 210 pounds who skated like PJ Axelsson and played as physical as Marcus Nilson. This team is too weak on the wrong positions. The Canadians will crush this as it is now.

Just joking around, agree that a 6'3 Axelsson or Jönsson is just what we could need on our team. Nilson is a bit too lonely..

 

[mattihp]

Who is Sweden's worst disciplined defenseman?

Mattias Norström. Unfortunately also their best defensive defenseman.

 

[Kronblom]

Well look at the effort for the Czechs vs. Finland as opposed to Sweden.

Hejduk didn´t play against Sweden as a result of his poor performance in the 1st game.

 

[GKJ]

Mattias Norström. Unfortunately also their best defensive defenseman.

And he's not undisciplined at all, so maybe it doesn't really matter. Norstrom is the #2 dman for Sweden.

 

[Ola]

I think that a lot of us have at least three worries about the defensive pairings:

If you play Lidström with Johnsson you effectively deprive the second pair of any offensive potential (let's face it, we would all rather see Lidström join the rush than Ragnarsson)

A pairing consisting of Lidström and Johnson isn't physical enough to handle the best power forwards in the world - I'd rather have Ragnarsson moving Iginla out of the crease than Lidström.

Frankly I don´t think that our defense corp will get much opperunity to join the rush against Canada, do you? Kim Johnsson will play more then 1/3 of the game, and having a offensive d-men for that amount of the time against Canada is more then enough for me. And if Kim Johnsson is caught pinching in who would you rather have back there to cover for him in a 2 on 1 situation, Ragnarsson or Lidström? Also, we are not going to be able to put allot of pressure on Canada, but having Lidström out there with his transition game helps allot. With a pairing of Johnsson and Lidström you get a much higher percentage of having Kim Johnsson who is one of our best offensive weapons on the ice in a situation where he can jump into the play.

I agree with you however that Kim Johnsson hasn´t been able to play up to par defensivly so far in the tournament. Of course it would help him to play with Ragnarsson when it comes to clearing the crease but on the other hand if he can´t take care of that part of the game he shouldn´t have been on the roster from beginning. I don´t think the solution is to give him a baby sitter in Ragnarsson because Ragnarsson himself can´t handle a line like Smyth-Lecavalier-Heatly. Kim must find ways by himself to clear the crease.

A pairing consisting of Ragnarsson and Norström is too immobile to handle speedy counterattacks - I'd be far more comfortable with either Johnsson or Lidström backchecking when St Louis is breaking away than with Ragnarsson or Norström.

Ragnarsson&Norström is going to be on the ice allot with the 3rd&4th pairing. If they have a 3rd man back with them all the time they will have no problems handling speedier forwards. If we let Canada get odd man rushes we are screwed anyway, we must have a 3rd player high all the time...

If anything I am worried about Rags&Nordström´s transition game, especially against a the weaker teams but against canada "sarg ut" will be good enough for me.

 

[mattihp]

Ragnarsson is more mobile than one would think...

 

[Ola]

Ragnarsson is more mobile than one would think...

Yep, I wouldn´t exactly compare him with Rich Pilon..

 

[mattihp]

Yep, I wouldn´t exactly compare him with Rich Pilon..

I still think it's hilarious that Pilon's name is almost Pylon

 

[Leo Naphta]

Frankly I don´t think that our defense corp will get much opperunity to join the rush against Canada, do you? Kim Johnsson will play more then 1/3 of the game, and having a offensive d-men for that amount of the time against Canada is more then enough for me. And if Kim Johnsson is caught pinching in who would you rather have back there to cover for him in a 2 on 1 situation, Ragnarsson or Lidström? Also, we are not going to be able to put allot of pressure on Canada, but having Lidström out there with his transition game helps allot. With a pairing of Johnsson and Lidström you get a much higher percentage of having Kim Johnsson who is one of our best offensive weapons on the ice in a situation where he can jump into the play.

The point is that we must find a balance to the pairings. You just can't expect that the right time to join the rush will come whenever Johnson happens to be on the ice. Sometimes it will come when the second pairing is on the ice. Spreading the offensive talent around means that the chance increases that the right man gets the opportunity. Nor can you demand that every d-man should be able to move the best powerforwards out of the crease. Not even Canada has that physical d-men. If the only criteria for selecting d-men was strength, Andreas Lilja would be in the roster ahead of both Lidström and Johnson. Spreading the physical presence around once again means that the chance that the right d-man is on the ice at the right situation increases. As for backchecking, Sweden is not going to play with a forward that sits so deep that he can help out Norström and Ragnarsson against a St Louis breaking away.

On a general note. I think we agree that the team has to be good enough to beat Canada. However, you seem to think that they are going to do that playing ultradefensively. That's not going to happen. Hardy is too dogmatical to play defensive, and if Canada has one weakness, it consists in their defense. The only way to beat them is to pressure their defensemen.

 

[Ola]

The point is that we must find a balance to the pairings. You just can't expect that the right time to join the rush will come whenever Johnson happens to be on the ice. Sometimes it will come when the second pairing is on the ice. Spreading the offensive talent around means that the chance increases that the right man gets the opportunity. Nor can you demand that every d-man should be able to move the best powerforwards out of the crease. Not even Canada has that physical d-men. If the only criteria for selecting d-men was strength, Andreas Lilja would be in the roster ahead of both Lidström and Johnson. Spreading the physical presence around once again means that the chance that the right d-man is on the ice at the right situation increases. As for backchecking, Sweden is not going to play with a forward that sits so deep that he can help out Norström and Ragnarsson against a St Louis breaking away.

On a general note. I think we agree that the team has to be good enough to beat Canada. However, you seem to think that they are going to do that playing ultradefensively. That's not going to happen. Hardy is too dogmatical to play defensive, and if Canada has one weakness, it consists in their defense. The only way to beat them is to pressure their defensemen.

Ragnarsson doesn´t need a fast D partner to cover up behind him. He hasn´t been beaten wide once so far in games against the Finns, Slovakia and the Chechz who has more speed to canada. I can promise you that Canada won´t score on us by beating our defense one on one.... And when it comes to having a offensive minded d-man on the blue line at all times I am not sure that I agree, if a situation appears a defensemen like Ragnarson can execute. He has one of the best shoots on the team. Getting defensemen involved offensivly in the game is more about directions from the coach. Öhlund is also a d-man who can step up. Like I said if anything I am worried by Norström and Ragnarsson´s transition game. But I am not sure that even if we split up Johnsson and Lidström that we would be able to play a "puck controll" game at all times. We will be able to play "sarg ut" allot because if anything Canada is capable to put pressure on OUR defensemen... Thats another reason why I want Johnsson to play with Lidas, because the two of them might be the only d-pairing in the tournament who regulary can be able to regulary beat canadian forecheckers with their transition game...

On Kim Johnsson, he is bigger then Chelios and he can move just about anyone from the crease... I don´t expect Kim Johnsson to turn into Chris Chelios over a nigth but he can play better then he did against the Chechz. IMO Lidas-Johnsson is enough capable defensivly to not get killed against a Canadian team. And their offensive skills are good enough to keep the puck at the rigth end for most of the time, if they have the 1st or the 2nd line ahead of them.

On a general note, in order to win these days a team must play almost a "perfect" defensive game. Of course the way to beat any team, not only Canada is to put pressure on the defense. But we can´t expect to do that for 60 minutes. Hardy migth have a tenet that doesn´t include the word "trap" but he defenitly wants his lines to have a 3rd player back at all times. Thats why he has experimented with both Jönsson and Påhlsson with Forsberg and Näslund.

 

[H/H]

Mattias Norström. Unfortunately also their best defensive defenseman.

Uhh, what? He averages around 50 PIM per season, which is extremely low for a physical D-man.

 

[Leo Naphta]

Ragnarsson doesn´t need a fast D partner to cover up behind him. He hasn´t been beaten wide once so far in games against the Finns, Slovakia and the Chechz who has more speed to canada. I can promise you that Canada won´t score on us by beating our defense one on one.... And when it comes to having a offensive minded d-man on the blue line at all times I am not sure that I agree, if a situation appears a defensemen like Ragnarson can execute. He has one of the best shoots on the team. Getting defensemen involved offensivly in the game is more about directions from the coach. Öhlund is also a d-man who can step up. Like I said if anything I am worried by Norström and Ragnarsson´s transition game. But I am not sure that even if we split up Johnsson and Lidström that we would be able to play a "puck controll" game at all times. We will be able to play "sarg ut" allot because if anything Canada is capable to put pressure on OUR defensemen... Thats another reason why I want Johnsson to play with Lidas, because the two of them might be the only d-pairing in the tournament who regulary can be able to regulary beat canadian forecheckers with their transition game...

On Kim Johnsson, he is bigger then Chelios and he can move just about anyone from the crease... I don´t expect Kim Johnsson to turn into Chris Chelios over a nigth but he can play better then he did against the Chechz. IMO Lidas-Johnsson is enough capable defensivly to not get killed against a Canadian team. And their offensive skills are good enough to keep the puck at the rigth end for most of the time, if they have the 1st or the 2nd line ahead of them.

On a general note, in order to win these days a team must play almost a "perfect" defensive game. Of course the way to beat any team, not only Canada is to put pressure on the defense. But we can´t expect to do that for 60 minutes. Hardy migth have a tenet that doesn´t include the word "trap" but he defenitly wants his lines to have a 3rd player back at all times. Thats why he has experimented with both Jönsson and Påhlsson with Forsberg and Näslund.

Well, we obviously disagree on a lot of points.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Mattias Norström. Unfortunately also their best defensive defenseman.

Ohlund and Lidstrom are easily better in their own end than Norstrom.