World Cup Question

[BayStreetBully]

In ideal world we would have both olympics and world cup, while the latter would be just for the best of the best (8 teams or so) that scenario would probably satisfy everyone.

I can be easily wrong about the amount of interest this tournament can get in France or Denamark, but still it's possible the fans will at least get to see the best hockey on the planet with some of their best players. It's possible that some kid would look up to this tournament and say, "I wanna play with those great players too!" knowing that only one or two players from his country are that good. I know it would inspire me.

As much as one or two Canadians playing on Team North America in the FIFA World Cup would inspire most Canadians- zilch.

 

[JackSlater]

Out of 8 teams, 6 represent countries. One team represents North America, with some restrictions, and the other represents Europe, again with some restrictions. What NHL teams represent any continect or a country or even a US state or canadian province? They don't even represent their "cities", because it's totally random group of players thrown together. Team North America consists of the best U-24 players born in North America. The Anaheim Ducks have no restriction based on nationalities or continents. The Ducks are a league team. Team NA is an international team with clear restriction.

You are the one who tried to use a horrible definition of teams "made up of people from different countries" constituting international. Every NHL team fits that criteria, and the NHL playoffs are a tournament, so according to what you accept the NHL playoffs are an international tournament.

Of course that is ridiculous, but then again the very idea of putting non national teams in a supposedly international tournament is also ridiculous.

I can be easily wrong about the amount of interest this tournament can get in France or Denamark, but still it's possible the fans will at least get to see the best hockey on the planet with some of their best players. It's possible that some kid would look up to this tournament and say, "I wanna play with those great players too!" knowing that only one or two players from his country are that good. I know it would inspire me.

You know that the NHL all star game exists, yes? In your scenario the kid can still just "dream" about making it to the NHL, where all of the best players already play. Seeing the best players together has no novelty, since the NHL and its all star game already exist. Using such an example to defend this frankenstein World Cup is nonsense.

 

[FiLe]

Out of 8 teams, 6 represent countries. One team represents North America, with some restrictions, and the other represents Europe, again with some restrictions. What NHL teams represent any continect or a country or even a US state or canadian province? They don't even represent their "cities", because it's totally random group of players thrown together. Team North America consists of the best U-24 players born in North America. The Anaheim Ducks have no restriction based on nationalities or continents. The Ducks are a league team. Team NA is an international team with clear restriction.

The definition you yourself quoted said "countries" - NOT "continents", "states", or "provinces".

So either "International" refers to a collection of groups, each made is of citizens of a single country - which is the formula most international sport uses - or it refers to any group made of people from multiple countries - which applies perfectly to any NHL team.

Sorry, no dice. Try harder.

 

[Keram]

In ideal world we would have both olympics and world cup, while the latter would be just for the best of the best (8 teams or so) that scenario would probably satisfy everyone.

I can be easily wrong about the amount of interest this tournament can get in France or Denamark, but still it's possible the fans will at least get to see the best hockey on the planet with some of their best players. It's possible that some kid would look up to this tournament and say, "I wanna play with those great players too!" knowing that only one or two players from his country are that good. I know it would inspire me.

That can be true. Maybe for Slovakia it is different because we used to be hockey power and we are not anymore but there are real die hard hockey fan who watch hockey all year long and then there is a majority of fans who watching only WCH or Olympics. It was obvious early 00´s when we collected medals at WCH but I think it is present nowdays too. Casual fans follow WCH and I am not so sure about world cup. And for other countries in team Europe should be similar.

I would be satisfied with WC every four years with lesser teams without Slovakia and with best on best Olympics with 12 teams with opportunity to qualify. I am dont like idea of fake national teams. I will watch WC though. And I will root for Europe but same way like I root Detroit with Tatar and Jurco not the way I root for Slovak NT.

 

[tinozz]

I just hope Team Europe and Team North America both get into the semi finals so i can see all the whining and crying in hfboards

 

[xxxx]

I just hope Team Europe and Team North America both get into the semi finals so i can see all the whining and crying in hfboards

There is definitely a chance.

 

[Lepardi]

7-1y Sochi, US vs. Slovakia.

6-1 Vancouver, USA vs. Finland
5-0 Sochi, Finland vs. USA

Maybe they should get rid of Finland and USA too, cause clearly neither one is immune to getting blown out.

 

[kabidjan18]

6-1 Vancouver, USA vs. Finland
5-0 Sochi, Finland vs. USA

Maybe they should get rid of Finland and USA too, cause clearly neither one is immune to getting blown out.

Lol, euros keep bringing this back up. The guy above my comment made the assertion that Slovakia hasn't been blown out in forever and I merely corrected him. If anyone's been reading anything I've written, I'm not for these gimmick teams, however, if you want me to argue the other side I'd be happy to. True Hockey is probably getting lonely being the only one doing so.

The largest recent Slovak blowout in the NHL's eyes was 3-1 Slovenia (so you guys can get busy telling me when the last time the US and Finland lost to Slovenia in best on best), and Switzerland's was 3-1 Latvia. These losses ruled out these two teams as being "next tier" above tier 2.

 

[westc2]

Some of the best US players are on the stupid 24 and under team. Team Europe is actually a really good team and they don't represent any country. If they just wanted to have a tournament involving the best NHL players...they should have just made it a larger scale all-star game tournament, except as normal 5v5 hockey.

Maybe just have a North American and World Team for each division since they've already ruined the whole national pride thing by adding a Young NA team and Team Europe...So lets get some divisional pride going instead.

Pacific World / Pacific North America / Central World / Central North America / etc...

Central NA
Benn-Seguin-Kane
MacKinnon-Toews-Wheeler
Sharp-Spezza-Schwartz
Parise-Backes-Ladd

Suter-Weber
Keith-Seabrook
Shattenkirk-Pietrangelo
Barrie-Byfuglien

Central World
Panarin-Forsberg-Tarasenko
Steen-Koivu-Landeskog
Vanek-Anisimov-Ehlers
Nichushkin-Lehtera-Hossa

Klingberg-Josi
Ekholm-Hjalmarsson
Enstrom-Oduya
Gunnarsson-Rozsival

Pacific NA
Hall-McDavid-Perry
Getzlaf-Thornton-Carter
Gaudreau-Pavelski-Toffoli
Domi-Kesler-Eberle

Burns-Doughty
Giordano-Brodie
Vlasic-Muzzin
Fowler-Hamilton

Pacific World
Sedin-Kopitar-Sedin
Gaborik-Draisaitl-Hertl
Frolik-Rakell-Vrbata
Silfverberg-Hanzal-Rieder

EkmanLarsson-Vatanen
Sekera-Lindholm
Edler-Ehrhoff
Klefbom-Sbisa

Atlantic NA
Pacioretty-Bergeron-O'Reilly
Hoffman-Stamkos-Ryan
Marchand-Eichel-Stone
T.Johnson-Larkin-Huberdeau

Subban-Rielly
Ekblad-Green
Phaneuf-DeKeyser
Krug-Campbell

Atlantic World
Kucherov-Krejci-Eriksson
Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Jagr
Barkov-Plekanec-Jokinen
Komarov-Zibanejad-Nyquist

Karlsson-Markov
Hedman-Ristolainen
Chara-Stralman
Kronwall-Kulikov

Metro NA
Tavares-Crosby-Okposo
Kessel-Giroux-Nash
Cammalleri-Brassard-Skinner
Saad-Couturier-Oshie

Letang-Carlson
Faulk-Gostisbehere
Yandle-McDonagh
Niskanen-Leddy

Metro World
Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Malkin
Zuccarello-Backstrom-Voracek
Hornqvist-Nielson-Rask
Johansson-Lindholm-Burakovsky

Orlov-Maatta
Streit-Larsson
Zidlicky-Medvedev
Gudas-Tyutin

 

[Harry22]

As fans, we want a best on best tournament and the Olympics give us that. However, the league has no benefits what so ever to do that. Non hockey fans will watch the Olympics but they won't watch the NHL afterwards, there has been no benefits for the league since 1998. They risk their assets to let the corrupt IOC makes loads of money with them. It's the equivalent as Apple letting someone use their developpers to make a brand new program and only the latter get the benefits, not Apple.

The World Cup is a fantastic idea. Tournaments create a buzz when it has a history attached to it. Canada Cup rarely generated interests outside of Canada and maybe Russia. The first two World Cups were ok, but the second one came right before the season-long lockout. The NHL/NHLPA have a chance to really create a best on best tournament if they do it right and maintain it. Team Europe and Team NA is fine this time around but I hope they stick to their word and create a qualifying round for 2020 and use only national teams from 2020 on.

My schedule would be this:
Top 6 national teams as ranked by the IIHF (or the NHL can create their own system to rank countries) by June 1st 2019, get automatic spots for the 2020 WC.

Next 8 national teams (rank 7 through 14) battle in out in a qualifying round in September 2019 for the remaining 2 spots.

WC in September 2020 with the 6 automatic qualifiers + 2 countries that qualified in 2019.

The WHC suck, as it's not truly best on best and it being every year, ruins everything.

 

[JackSlater]

As fans, we want a best on best tournament and the Olympics give us that. However, the league has no benefits what so ever to do that. Non hockey fans will watch the Olympics but they won't watch the NHL afterwards, there has been no benefits for the league since 1998. They risk their assets to let the corrupt IOC makes loads of money with them. It's the equivalent as Apple letting someone use their developpers to make a brand new program and only the latter get the benefits, not Apple.

The World Cup is a fantastic idea. Tournaments create a buzz when it has a history attached to it. Canada Cup rarely generated interests outside of Canada and maybe Russia. The first two World Cups were ok, but the second one came right before the season-long lockout. The NHL/NHLPA have a chance to really create a best on best tournament if they do it right and maintain it. Team Europe and Team NA is fine this time around but I hope they stick to their word and create a qualifying round for 2020 and use only national teams from 2020 on.

My schedule would be this:
Top 6 national teams as ranked by the IIHF (or the NHL can create their own system to rank countries) by June 1st 2019, get automatic spots for the 2020 WC.

Next 8 national teams (rank 7 through 14) battle in out in a qualifying round in September 2019 for the remaining 2 spots.

WC in September 2020 with the 6 automatic qualifiers + 2 countries that qualified in 2019.

The WHC suck, as it's not truly best on best and it being every year, ruins everything.

Why should there be qualifiers for the bottom two teams only? Is the NHL going to pay for qualifying games between Latvia and Slovenia, for instance?

 

[Harry22]

Why should there be qualifiers for the bottom two teams only? Is the NHL going to pay for qualifying games between Latvia and Slovenia, for instance?

Because the top 6 are going nowhere.

The rankings are based of previous results and are a great indication of who are the best.

If the NHL is committed to having a true international best on best tournament, yes they will pay for qualifying games.

 

[BayStreetBully]

If I was the NHL and I wanted to create the best hockey tournament to supplant the Olympics, I'd have a 16 team tournament with qualifiers for the bottom 8 teams. Have it every 4 years and restrict it to national teams. Every game doesn't need to be 2-1. Blowouts are perfectly fine when it comes to spreading the game.

And don't skip out on the Olympics in the meantime. If the World Cup is meant to supplant the Olympics, let it be done organically.

 

[JackSlater]

Because the top 6 are going nowhere.

The rankings are based of previous results and are a great indication of who are the best.

If the NHL is committed to having a true international best on best tournament, yes they will pay for qualifying games.

It's quite arbitrary of you to deem six teams the cut off for automatic qualifiers. It's also laughable to suggest that the NHL would pay for qualifiers for teams with barely any NHLers. At this point it's quite clear that the NHL isn't interested in having a true best on best, just a a showcase.

 

[Harry22]

It's quite arbitrary of you to deem six teams the cut off for automatic qualifiers. It's also laughable to suggest that the NHL would pay for qualifiers for teams with barely any NHLers. At this point it's quite clear that the NHL isn't interested in having a true best on best, just a a showcase.

It's not arbitrary at all. Its based on previous tournaments.

The World Cup is already featuring best on best. It's the second best tournament already IMO.

The world championships means nothing because not the best are playing.

 

[xxxx]

You are the one who tried to use a horrible definition of teams "made up of people from different countries" constituting international. Every NHL team fits that criteria, and the NHL playoffs are a tournament, so according to what you accept the NHL playoffs are an international tournament.

Of course that is ridiculous, but then again the very idea of putting non national teams in a supposedly international tournament is also ridiculous.

What I believe is, that it is an international tournament because these two teams still represent clear geographical areas that are MADE UP by countries. The thing is, Team NA still represents North America, which is a geographical area that consists of nations. Team Europe still represents european continent.

COUNTRY

an area of land that has its own government and official borders

CONTINENT

one of the very large areas of land on Earth that are usually divided into several countries

You know that the NHL all star game exists, yes? In your scenario the kid can still just "dream" about making it to the NHL, where all of the best players already play. Seeing the best players together has no novelty, since the NHL and its all star game already exist. Using such an example to defend this frankenstein World Cup is nonsense.

You are partly right, but 1) that player, let's say Zuccarello, still represents Norway and Europe in a certain way. I guess it's a question of how much attention actually the World Cup gets in Norway, but I would argue it's more than NHL-All Star game. I know that in some other countries it's that way.
2) how many of the players on Team Europe actually participated at the All-Star game this year? I know Zuccarello, as the only Norwegian in the NHL, wasn't there. Was Draisaitl there? Grabovski? Boedker?

 

[FiLe]

What I believe is, that it is an international tournament because these two teams still represent clear geographical areas that are MADE UP by countries.

You could call any area of the Earth that. Even Earth itself.

Besides, there's also a word describing something that is between continents. Namely, "intercontinental". Something being made of continents is not the same thing as "international". We can all see you dug yourself into a hole here, and are now trying to get out. A word to the wise - stop. You're only digging deeper.

You are partly right, but 1) that player, let's say Zuccarello, still represents Norway and Europe in a certain way.

Zuccarello doesn't represent Norway as part of Team Europe any more or any less than he does as a member of the Rangers. The novelty value to Norwegians seeing him like that is exactly zero.

 

[xxxx]

You could call any area of the Earth that. Even Earth itself.

Besides, there's also a word describing something that is between continents. Namely, "intercontinental". Something being made of continents is not the same thing as "international". We can all see you dug yourself into a hole here, and are now trying to get out. A word to the wise - stop. You're only digging deeper.

Look, it's how I view this. You don't have to agree. I don't really care.
I don't even care if the tournament is international or not. I believe it is, but it doesn't have to be to have legitimacy, lol.

Zuccarello doesn't represent Norway as part of Team Europe any more or any less than he does as a member of the Rangers. The novelty value to Norwegians seeing him like that is exactly zero.

That is not true. Does he have his own flag on his NYR jersey? I don't think so.

 

[FiLe]

Look, it's how I view this. You don't have to agree. I don't really care.
I don't even care if the tournament is international or not. I believe it is, but it doesn't have to be to have legitimacy, lol.

I guess that explains everything. You *do* sound like a religious person who enters a scientific debate. Never a pretty sight.

That is not true. Does he have his own flag on his NYR jersey? I don't think so.

Ohhh... the tiny flag on a jersey will make all the difference. Not the man inside it.

Guess I'll just smile and nod now.

 

[xxxx]

I believe it is

I guess that explains everything. You *do* sound like a religious person who enters a scientific debate. Never a pretty sight.

Sorry that I mistakenly believed continents and nations are in any kind related.

 

[BayStreetBully]

What I believe is, that it is an international tournament because these two teams still represent clear geographical areas that are MADE UP by countries. The thing is, Team NA still represents North America, which is a geographical area that consists of nations. Team Europe still represents european continent.

COUNTRY

CONTINENT




You are partly right, but 1) that player, let's say Zuccarello, still represents Norway and Europe in a certain way. I guess it's a question of how much attention actually the World Cup gets in Norway, but I would argue it's more than NHL-All Star game. I know that in some other countries it's that way.
2) how many of the players on Team Europe actually participated at the All-Star game this year? I know Zuccarello, as the only Norwegian in the NHL, wasn't there. Was Draisaitl there? Grabovski? Boedker?

Oh man. You are reaching.

 

[QnebO]

Defenders of tournament format could be like defenders of Putin are said to be in media, paid people writing and Bettman paying. I bet these guys are in somewhere @ USA-KREML. Bettman propaganda.


I think its safe to say we all would love world cup. They just failed big time with the format, so we must wait another 4 years.

 

[JackSlater]

It's not arbitrary at all. Its based on previous tournaments.

The World Cup is already featuring best on best. It's the second best tournament already IMO.

The world championships means nothing because not the best are playing.

The previous tournaments didn't have qualifiers. The NHL used lack of qualifiers as an excuse for the joke teams, even though qualifiers weren't necessary before. It's ridiculous. I agree that the World Championships are meaningless, though I don't see why you mentioned that in your post.

What I believe is, that it is an international tournament because these two teams still represent clear geographical areas that are MADE UP by countries. The thing is, Team NA still represents North America, which is a geographical area that consists of nations. Team Europe still represents european continent.

FiLe already destroyed your argument definitionally (pretty easily done) but another issue is that no, the Young Gunz do not represent North America. They are team North America under 24, and you cannot find North America under 24 on a map, I guarantee... even if you try to stretch definitions to suit your untenable stance. Additionally, unless you expect the tournament to be a big deal in Mexico, Canadian and American fans are far better represented by two other teams that happen to be in the same tournament.

You are partly right, but 1) that player, let's say Zuccarello, still represents Norway and Europe in a certain way. I guess it's a question of how much attention actually the World Cup gets in Norway, but I would argue it's more than NHL-All Star game. I know that in some other countries it's that way.
2) how many of the players on Team Europe actually participated at the All-Star game this year? I know Zuccarello, as the only Norwegian in the NHL, wasn't there. Was Draisaitl there? Grabovski? Boedker?

No, the option given once again makes this World Cup redundant. If some kid in Norway for instance wants to see a player from his country play with the world's best, then he has the NHL and its all star game to look forward to, if his countryman is elite. It's a ridiculous justification for the gimmicks because this "issue" is already taken care of by the NHL.

 

[Jablkon]

I have question here. In 1984 West Germany participated on Canada Cup and obviously replaced Finnland. I checked results from previous 81 and 76 events and Finnland wasn't obviously competitive enough. In fact they got hammered often. Was it the reason for adding West Germany? All I am curious is if this situation happened before, except omission of Switzerland and Slovakia was made by predictions and does not reflect previous results....

 

[jekoh]

That is not true. Does he have his own flag on his NYR jersey? I don't think so.

Wait, are you saying the Euro Leftovers jersey will feature every player's national flag?!

Is this an effort to convince us that it is, after all, a national team?