World Cup of Hockey - Non gimmick (kind of)

[namttebih]

I'd like to preface this by saying that I'd like to avoid all talk of Russia and Belarus. I'd like to discuss the format for a normal year. Let's go all rainbows and unicorns and say that there will be a cease fire tomorrow.



I have gone the opposite route as league’s attempt at gimmick teams. Instead of amalgamating the NA U23 and Europe, I have actually made it more regional – specifically for the NA teams. Additionally, I thought of a way that might be appealing for the league to include fringe teams from the top division/stronger teams in Division A. My thought process for the latter is to promote a more international tournament and exposure of the game. That said, games between lower ranking teams such as Norway or Kazakhstan typically won’t draw crowds in 19000 capacity arenas. Additionally, there are too many games between elite 6 teams and bottom 6 teams which are even less interesting to the average fan.

Start with round robin play in Europe competing for spots 13-16. The top 2 teams from each division advance. Hopefully having this stage in home cities might draw interest.

Riga
Latvia
Belarus
Kazakhstan
Austria

Copenhagen
Denmark
Norway
France
Italy

After this is completed, they will join Finland, Sweden, Russia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Germany, Switzerland and the following NA teams. Here is where the gimmick teams come in. Canadian teams are already split similarly to this for some junior tournaments. I have it based loosely on CHL territory, but where the player was born/raised – not if he played in the Q, O or W. The American teams are simple, everything east of Chicago is East, the remainder of the country – including Illinois is West.

Canada Ontario

Marner – McDavid - Stamkos
Duchene – Scheifele - Suzuki
Horvat – Tavares - Thomas
Bennett – Kadri - O’Reilly
McTavish


Pelech - Ekblad
Nurse - Hamilton
Chychrun - Ellis
Power

Binnington
Blackwood
Talbot

Canada West

E. Kane – Point - Gallagher
Eberle – Barzal - S. Reinhart
Hall – Johansen - Stone
Dach – Toews - RNH
Krebs

Theodore – Makar
Rielly – Spurgeon
Morrisey – Pulock
Toews

Jarry
Driedger
Kuemper

Canada East

Huberdeau – MacKinnon – Mantha
Marchand – Crosby – Bergeron
Killorn – Coutourier – Giroux (I know that he was born in Hearst and grew up in Orleans)
Gourde – PLD – Batherson
Lafreniere

Chabot – Letang
Dobson – Savard
Girard – Vlasic
Lamoureux

Fleury
Allen
Bernier

USA East

Gaudreau – Eichel – P. Kane
Kreider – Zegras – Connor
Paciorretty – Larkin – J. Hughes
Debrincat – Norris – J. Miller
Rust

Werinski – Fox
Pesce – McAvoy
Q. Hughes – Carlson
Hanifin


Hellebuych
Nedeljkovic
Knight

USA West

M. Tkachuk – Matthews – Keller
J. Robertson – Thompson – Terry
B. Tkachuk – Schmaltz – Guentzel
Lee – Pavelski – Boeser
Yamamoto

Slavin – Trouba
McDonagh – Jones
Leddy – Manson
Pionk

Oettinger
Demko
DeSmith

Would any of these teams be favorites. Are they all contenders?

Finally, this is what the final 16 might look like.

CAN E
Russia
Switzerland
Latvia

CAN W
USA E
Germany
Belarus

USA W
Sweden
Czech Rep
Norway

CAN E
Finland
Slovakia
Denmark


Flame away!!!

Click to read more...

 

[namttebih]

You guys are going to make me cry. Haha

Even if you hate the idea, just answer the question at the end.

 

[JackSlater]

Batherson grew up in Nova Scotia and would be a nice boost to Canada East. I think that one of the European teams would have to be viewed as favourite in this context even if some of the regional teams could have comparable rosters.

 

[Albatros]

North American provincial teams have negligible commercial value in Europe, even if the money is made primarily in Canada there's still no way to make it a good fit.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

While nothing more than a complete pipe dream, at this point I'd be more than satisfied with a best-of-7 (or 9!) border war between Canada and the U.S. It would satisfy the North American television market, and make for some damn entertaining hockey. A prolonged series would have the effect of ratcheting-up the intensity and physicality and give the teams a chance to develop some real bad blood...not to mention the skill level would be incredibly high.

Going back, the best-of-3 final at the 1996 World Cup, the 2002 and 2010 Olympic gold medal games, and 2014 Olympic semi-final count as some of the best and most memorable games I've seen. When the Canadians and Americans play on an open sheet of ice, nothing but good things happen.

 

[namttebih]

Batherson grew up in Nova Scotia and would be a nice boost to Canada East. I think that one of the European teams would have to be viewed as favourite in this context even if some of the regional teams could have comparable rosters.

Thanks for that. I'll make the change.

On your second point, why do you think that that would be the case?

 

[namttebih]

North American provincial teams have negligible commercial value in Europe, even if the money is made primarily in Canada there's still no way to make it a good fit.

That said, would it be any less of an impact on the European market as the tournament as currently constructed? What kind of numbers did the last World Cup have overseas?

My idea here was two fold. Yes, by adding more regional teams, they might be of less interest to Europeans in general, but it guarantees more high end talent into the games. On the other end, it brings some exposure to nations like Latvia, Belarus and the Scandinavian countries who are on the cusp of making themselves mainstays like Germany and Switzerland before them.

 

[Gold Standard]

While nothing more than a complete pipe dream, at this point I'd be more than satisfied with a best-of-7 (or 9!) border war between Canada and the U.S. It would satisfy the North American television market, and make for some damn entertaining hockey. A prolonged series would have the effect of ratcheting-up the intensity and physicality and give the teams a chance to develop some real bad blood...not to mention the skill level would be incredibly high.

Going back, the best-of-3 final at the 1996 World Cup, the 2002 and 2010 Olympic gold medal games, and 2014 Olympic semi-final count as some of the best and most memorable games I've seen. When the Canadians and Americans play on an open sheet of ice, nothing but good things happen.

That's the tune I've been singing for years. Just make it 8 games as a homage to the original summit series. Jump back and forth over the border. Seattle/Vancouver Chicago/Edmonton Detroit/Toronto NYC/Montreal. Would be epic.

 

[JackSlater]

Thanks for that. I'll make the change.

On your second point, why do you think that that would be the case?

There is a sense of cohesion to some degree with those teams. These teams are just Canada and USA, but worse in each instance. I'd have Canada and USA as the clear top two teams in an actual tournament, but not when halved or worse even if the resulting team is still strong.

 

[namttebih]

There is a sense of cohesion to some degree with those teams. These teams are just Canada and USA, but worse in each instance. I'd have Canada and USA as the clear top two teams in an actual tournament, but not when halved or worse even if the resulting team is still strong.

Ok, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the cohesion angle. Take Canada Ontario for example. A good majority of those players have competed on the national team together - both in juniors as well as OG, WC and WHC. More importantly, almost all of them came through the ranks together in the GTHL and O. Finally, because most have summer homes in Muskoka, they train with each other in the off-season.

Perhaps that's the team with the most cohesion and USA West may be the least, but a lot of them have played together on national programs, NCAA and USDP

Here's a different question then. Should all 5 teams place top 8?

 

[Hanji]

You guys are going to make me cry. Haha

Even if you hate the idea, just answer the question at the end.

Ugh. This format would ensure that ratings would plummet to 0. It all but eliminates the collective nationaistic/patriotic element of it, which is the World Cup's largest selling point.
Outside hardcore hockey fans, nobody here would be remotely interested in a USA East or USA West.

 

[namttebih]

I don't know man. If you go by the last tourney and the abominations that we're Europe and NA U23, Gary couldn't care less about the nationalistic/patriotic element. He wants exposure of his stars. This ensures that much more than the IIHF teams ranked 10-16 who have around 10 NHL players between them. I'm not saying it's right - just trying to get into the league's head.

Regardless, how do you think the 5 teams would fare?

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Idea is bad. That said the Ontario team looks like a contender.

 

[namttebih]

Idea is bad. That said the Ontario team looks like a contender.

USA East has to be as well.

 

[garbageteam]

Non-starter, sorry. There's just zero precedent or reason to start dividing countries up now. I know they do in some sports - Football being the obvious one, rugby and cricket others - but ice hockey is now a really old sport and international hockey has been around forever - more than 100 years' worth of tournaments now.

If this was a nascent sport and it made sense to do it, we could see it being a strong tradition...50 or so years later that cannot be broken like in some other federations today. But it's become too established now.

just a best of 3, 5 or 7 USA/Canada series would be a better sell.

 

[Albatros]

Non-starter, sorry. There's just zero precedent or reason to start dividing countries up now. I know they do in some sports - Football being the obvious one, rugby and cricket others - but ice hockey is now a really old sport and international hockey has been around forever - more than 100 years' worth of tournaments now.

If this was a nascent sport and it made sense to do it, we could see it being a strong tradition...50 or so years later that cannot be broken like in some other federations today. But it's become too established now.

just a best of 3, 5 or 7 USA/Canada series would be a better sell.

For what it's worth Bohemia was one of the first IIHF members despite not being an independent country, Newfoundland also competed as its own team briefly. Hong Kong and Macau are still separate members.

 

[Ajax84]

Non-starter, sorry. There's just zero precedent or reason to start dividing countries up now. I know they do in some sports - Football being the obvious one, rugby and cricket others - but ice hockey is now a really old sport and international hockey has been around forever - more than 100 years' worth of tournaments now.

The reason countries are "divided up" in the other sports you mention is precisely because they are old sports. In rugby, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland compete as one team, because the Irish Rugby Union was established before the Republic existed.

 

[Albatros]

The reason countries are "divided up" in the other sports you mention is precisely because they are old sports. In rugby, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland compete as one team, because the Irish Rugby Union was established before the Republic existed.

In hockey we've had unified Korean teams, for example.

 

[Elvs]

Okay, so we might see Canada and USA make up 62,5% of all quarter final teams. Fun times. Maybe just leave Europe out if you like watching national friendlies.

And thread title is terrible. This format would make for an even bigger gimmic than we saw in 2016. At least that tournament "only" had two gimmick teams. This idea has five of them.

 

[jj cale]

Okay, so we might see Canada and USA make up 62,5% of all quarter final teams. Fun times. Maybe just leave Europe out if you like watching national friendlies.

And thread title is terrible. This format would make for an even bigger gimmic than we saw in 2016. At least that tournament "only" had two gimmick teams. This idea has five of them.

Having the quarters N.A heavy in a competition is not a problem in itself, we get a European dominated quarters at the worlds every year for obvious reasons. it's the fact they aren't national teams that is the problem.

It's more gimmick stuff, it's not needed and won't happen.

 

[Elvs]

Having the quarters N.A heavy in a competition is not a problem in itself, we get a European dominated quarters at the worlds every year for obvious reasons. it's the fact they aren't national teams that is the problem.

It's more gimmick stuff, it's not needed and won't happen.

Yeah I phrased it poorly. I meant we could hypothetically see Canada A, B and C, as well as USA A and B = five teams from just two nations, make up 5/8 of the quarterfinal teams.

Yes, it won't happen but here we have this thread anyway

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I like the Canada vs US series idea. That would be fun. A Europe vs NA (Ryder Cup type) series would be fun too. Or just traditional national teams. Other than that, just stick to the NHL teams.

 

[mattihp]

Can the European teams opt-out? Still a gimmick tournament, different gimmick. Canadians and Americans shouldn't be happy either as they are robbed of seeing some amazing players on the same lines.

It can still be called World Cup, MLB has World Series..

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Canada East? If you want riots in Quebec, sure.

Any proposal that would split Canada and not include a Quebec team would be a non-starter for me.

 

[NordiquesForeva]

I may be in the minority but I'm indifferent on whether or how this tournament proceeds...whether with or without Russia, or with or without other European teams. Obviously a tournament with Russia would produce the best hockey and represent a true best-on-best competition, but I've got to respect what the various federations and IIHF do with respect to Russia. I've got to also respect viewers and fans and whether they want to follow the tournament or not.

I've more or less resigned myself to not seeing a best-on-best tournament for the foreseeable future.