Post-Game Talk: Woody doesn’t even last NNN

[CantHaveTkachev]

see I'd agree with you IF we had players who played less minutes and made less mistakes.

Imagine sitting Bouchard and Drai and sending Deshairnais and Ryan over the boards in their place and they get dummied and scored on. I'd be laughing my ass off if I was Bouch/Drai

If they’re laughing after being benched then they’re dumber than I thought

 

[Soundwave]

Yeah, maybe it was *reasonable* to anticipate a regression from 6th in the league with 109 points down to 10-12th with around 100 points, but nothing was there to indicate they were going to implode like this.

Goals for last year as 3.96 per game, this year is 2.58.
Goals against last year was 3.17 per game, this year is 4.17.

So goal differential has swung from +0.79 to -1.59 per game.
A -2.38 goal differential per game difference with largely the same players that had this group at 109 and 104 points the previous 2 seasons, and on pace for 105 and 97 in the 2 shortened years before that.

McDavid dropping from 153 points last year to like 120-130 this season would be a "reasonable" expectation, not all the way down to 80-something.

And there's no logical reason for the entire team defense (which was never amazing, but was at least serviceable the past few years) to totally shit itself, AND both goalies to do the same.

I mean the team defense was bottom half in the league last year and worst GA against for any team through round 1 of the playoffs for the second year in a row.

Campbell bombed last year, Skinner bombed last playoffs.

To say there were no red flags about these things is simply lying.

It's only a shock if you operate from the assumption that these things were all just going to go away.

Goals for is a surprise, but if you told me McDavid is injured and the forward group is shell shocked from non-stop GA that they're griping their sticks too tight ... that isn't even that shocking.

 

[Senor Catface]

Yep, there’s no such thing as rock bottom. It can always get worse.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I didnt think that you were slagging on Edmonton.
You were just highlighting the reality of Edmonton as an NHL destination.

That said the crux of your post was entirely on Vegas as a destination city and thats why I switched gears to focusing on the organization...not the city.
Its the organization and how its run that ultimately matters and thats were the focus should be.

So your Micro and Macro views are much more relevant than Vegas as a city.

Now in terms of the Macro view...Vegas did start off with a favorable roster but they didnt have the 2 best offensive players in the League to build around. The Oilers also (back in 2015) had plenty of cap space to start off with as well.
Its the stable and elite management in the Vegas organization that stands out to me. Thats were winning starts and the Oilers under Katz ownership failed right form his first day under his ownership. It could be argued that they have never recovered and have now wasted multiple years (possibly even their careers as Oilers) of the 2 best offensive players in the game.

So the micro view as you laid it out is really just an extension of the macro.
It represents a logical conclusion.

So all of this doesnt really take away from my initial point that winning organizations like Vegas just do things differently. You might even say that they are 180 degrees different form how the Oilers organization operates.
Accountability has been built in to their organization right from the start of their current ownership.
Katz has never done that with the Oilers and despite some moderate success this organization has been chasing his tail ever since.

I appreciate your point. Vegas has existed for five years. The Oilers have bungled essentially the last twenty years with two ownership groups, chronic management turnover, turnstile coaching. The culmination of all of that instability has had significant effect whether reputational (laughing stock) or operational.

These two franchises are at fundamental different phase of their existence. Vegas fired a coach and put him in a taxi. MacTavish tied the can to one over Skype. Vegas sewered its face of the franchise goalie and replaced him with nary an issue. Unfortunately trouble compounded over Oil Country with the weight of so much poor organizational management over the long-term.

Vegas is a defining model for pro hockey. Edmonton isn't and has been sprinting for decades trying to catch up. Quite probably too late with this corrosive bottom out season in which the bottom has fallen out. So I get what Vegas would do. The Oilers have been a patched together organization that's now unravelling under its own hubris. Only thing it's achieved as a profit-motivated big business is delivering on Katz's stalking bid to buy the franchise and leveraging its beloved community brand into a highly public subsidized profit centre in its new hockey palace.

Once upon a time in its first five years of existence, the Oilers too were a standard bearer of organizational excellence, high accountability from its management and player group, an enviable success story on-ice and box-office.

 

[T-Funk]

DID NO ONE GET FIRED??

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

DID NO ONE GET FIRED??

 

[MoontoScott]

Yeh they went for retool and not rebuild. If Drai has decided to leave that’s a clear signal to rebuild for us. So let’s hope we don’t get flamed.

The team is in very tough shape now but I think its premature to assume that Drai is leaving.

He'll want around 12M per season (if Hubs can get 10.5) and probably an 7 year deal? so the first task will be for his agent to find a team that can accomodate that salary/cap hit and secondly there is no guarantee that his new team will ever come close to the cup. And of course unless his new team can find another 14M+ per season for McDavid then he won't be playing alongside his superstar buddy anymore.

These are all things that he will have to think about so to me there's still a good chance that he re-signs with the Oilers.

For the Oilers part they might also be leery of the new Drai price tag but given their drafting record then how easy will it be to find a replacement that is anywhere near as good in the next decade? Even drafting in the top 5 has been a challenge for them (the Yak, Puls). We shall see but I don't think this issue is cut and dried. Interesting off season upcoming in 2024.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Oh please. Nobody and I mean nobody saw THIS coming unless they had Marty McFly's Sports Almanac showing future scores.

It wasn't just the PP. The team was far better in all aspects last season. Don't act like you saw THIS coming because you didn't unless you can find posts of yours predicting this.

Personally, I never bought into them being a true Cup contender but what's happening now was unimaginable for everybody.

Well regression to some degree was I would say certain. All off summer myself and others were saying there would be fallback. I don't know anybody felt to this degree but you know my opinion on Connor Brown and that the team got worse in the offseason.

I was shouted out in the very Connor Brown thread by several posters for suggesting it was a terrible offseason and Connor Brown a terrible addition.

I commonly noted that several players on the team would have pts regression, (of course) after career years.

I don't know how anybody thought that Nuge, Hyman, Kane, Drai, McD were just going to keep putting up career years every year and that the Oilers would have the 2nd year in a row of a legendary PP. That just wasn't going to happen and opponent teams adjust.

The team was going to have to learn to defend because the regression in goals this season was going to be striking. The club even talked about that much of TC. That they had to cutdown GA. Last season the team outscored all their troubles.

 

[McOilers97]

I mean the team defense was bottom half in the league last year and worst GA against for any team through round 1 of the playoffs for the second year in a row.

Campbell bombed last year, Skinner bombed last playoffs.

To say there were no red flags about these things is simply lying.

It's only a shock if you operate from the assumption that these things were all just going to go away.

Goals for is a surprise, but if you told me McDavid is injured and the forward group is shell shocked from non-stop GA that they're griping their sticks too tight ... that isn't even that shocking.

1) Being 8th in goals against in the 1st round out of the 8 teams that made the 2nd round is overblowing things quite a bit because a) 16 teams didn't make the playoffs, 8 other teams lost in round 1. It's not the scathing indictment you want it to be.

**Noticed upon looking into the data that both Florida and Toronto gave up more goals per game in their 1st round series last year than the Oilers did. Maybe check your facts there.

2) Exactly: Campbell bombed last year and they still managed to be average in goals against, with significantly improved team-D in the 2nd half of the season. With the same quality of play to start this season, we'd be looking at significantly better Campbell numbers than what we've gotten.

3) I didn't say no red flags - I said that there was no reason to think that the team would regress from top 10 to bottom 10.

Overall, you've kinda just been the guy that pops up whenever things go bad to be like "I knew this team sucked all along" and it's tiresome.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Weirdest thing (not directly related to the Oilers org.) in all this to me is all the Canuck fans coming out of the woodwork to troll/hate post about the Oilers. Even scrolling on social media (IG, Facebook, twitter, etc.) it seems half the shit flinging posts have Nucks avatars. I never realized there was such an animosity from their fanbase, when, and I speak generally, most Oiler fans I've met give 0 shits about the Canucks. Some haters for sure, but a drop in the Ocean compared to the Calgary hate.

Its provincial too. But I can't get into that at length. But Alberta hate is far too common in this country. Far worse East of Manitoba but increasingly present in lower mainland as well.

 

[Soundwave]

1) Being 8th in goals against in the 1st round out of the 8 teams that made the 2nd round is overblowing things quite a bit because a) 16 teams didn't make the playoffs, 8 other teams lost in round 1. It's not the scathing indictment you want it to be.

**Noticed upon looking into the data that both Florida and and Toronto gave up more goals per game in their 1st round series last year than the Oilers did. Maybe check your facts there.

2) Exactly: Campbell bombed last year and they still managed to be average in goals against, with significantly improved team-D in the 2nd half of the season. With the same quality of play to start this season, we'd be looking at significantly better Campbell numbers than what we've gotten.

3) I didn't say no red flags - I said that there was no reason to think that the team would regress from top 10 to bottom 10.

Overall, you've kinda just been the guy that pops up whenever things go bad to be like "I knew this team sucked all along" and it's tiresome.

To be 8/8 twice in a row does say something.

They were in the bottom half of the NHL for GA last year, if Skinner had his playoff numbers last year in the regular season, well you basically get this team, lol.

Bottom line is maybe the lesson is learned here ... don't play Russian roulette with your goaltending and D. You can put yourself into these positions.

 

[Lacaar]

Weirdest thing (not directly related to the Oilers org.) in all this to me is all the Canuck fans coming out of the woodwork to troll/hate post about the Oilers. Even scrolling on social media (IG, Facebook, twitter, etc.) it seems half the shit flinging posts have Nucks avatars. I never realized there was such an animosity from their fanbase, when, and I speak generally, most Oiler fans I've met give 0 shits about the Canucks. Some haters for sure, but a drop in the Ocean compared to the Calgary hate.

The Canucks are an interesting case that I think can bring insight into what is happening in Edmonton in Calgary. This season wise and even over the last 15 years.

I'm serious when I say that Canadian franchise struggle big time to get consistent play from their players. These arguments of bad management, coaching etc are complete and utter bullshit.

There's something psychological that's f***ed with the way NHL players commit and strive in Canadian franchises. I have no clue what it is. But if I owned a Canadian franchise. I would be paying out the f***ing wazoo to find out.

So I'll say this. Vancouver is looking to be in for a good year this year. But I wouldn't be the least bit shocked to see them SHIT the bed next year with poor play like the Oilers have been doing this year.

This team is being torn apart by their mental weakness.

 

[KlefDown]

If they’re laughing after being benched then they’re dumber than I thought

kind of missing the point. if the coach wants to send a message, it better have weight to it

 

[rboomercat90]

View attachment 766304

The last thing these guys need is losing to the Condors too.

 

[Drivesaitl]

TSN makes me sick. Saying that coaching isn't the answer, that theres no need to do that, and that Seattle game is the big one and that we just continue as is if we win the Seattle game.

Everybody in the hockey world was saying LAST NIGHT was the must win, that the team would implode with a loss in SJ Moving target?

 

[McBeastMode]

Sorry to spoil your Friday...

 

[Soundwave]

Jay is a good coach ... so long as McDavid is scoring at a 150 point rate and defense isn't really part of the game plan.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Was probably jerking off when he wrote this. Matheson would love this. Its all on the players, yeah, he hates the players here now.

Probably would love to pin it all on his pissy nemesis Draisaitl.

Remember how so many of these clowns were saying that firing Tipp wasn't the answer? We are at that same point now, either a goalie or coaching change is an absolute must right now.

 

[foshizzle]

whats the new coach gonna do? Magically turn Nurse into prime Lidstrom?

It doesn't matter who the driver of the car is when the engine is blown and the wheels are coming off, the manufacturer of the car is the problem. you can put a new driver in and the results won't change

No. But a competent defence coach can, perhaps, make Nurse serviceable

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Its provincial too. But I can't get into that at length. But Alberta hate is far too common in this country. Far worse East of Manitoba but increasingly present in lower mainland as well.

We don’t hate ya bub. We just think you’re hillbillies. Xoxoxo

 

[guymez]

I appreciate your point. Vegas has existed for five years. The Oilers have bungled essentially the last twenty years with two ownership groups, chronic management turnover, turnstile coaching. The culmination of all of that instability has had significant effect whether reputational (laughing stock) or operational.

These two franchises are at fundamental different phase of their existence. Vegas fired a coach and put him in a taxi. MacTavish tied the can to one over Skype. Vegas sewered its face of the franchise goalie and replaced him with nary an issue. Unfortunately trouble compounded over Oil Country with the weight of so much poor organizational management over the long-term.

Vegas is a defining model for pro hockey. Edmonton isn't and has been sprinting for decades trying to catch up. Quite probably too late with this corrosive bottom out season in which the bottom has fallen out. So I get what Vegas would do. The Oilers have been a patched together organization that's now unravelling under its own hubris. Only thing it's achieved as a profit-motivated big business is delivering on Katz's stalking bid to buy the franchise and leveraging its beloved community brand into a highly public subsidized profit centre in its new hockey palace.

Once upon a time in its first five years of existence, the Oilers too were a standard bearer of organizational excellence, high accountability from its management and player group, an enviable success story on-ice and box-office.

I am resetting the Oilers start for when Katz bought the team.
So that puts the re-start back to 2008.
So a longer time span than Vegas but still comparable in most ways. Especially in terms of potential opportunity.

It was the Katz ownership that offered the opportunity for a franchise reset.
What it brought instead was a cascade of mismanagement and missed opportunities that continues to this day.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Probably would love to pin it all on his pissy nemesis Draisaitl.

Remember how so many of these clowns were saying that firing Tipp wasn't the answer? We are at that same point now, either a goalie or coaching change is an absolute must right now.

Yep. I feel sad that Drai had to look so destroyed in that presser. Matheson enjoying that immensely. I mean these scribes best dreams is something like this happening. Not only is Matheson pissy he's vindictive too and never lets it go. Jones, Matheson were always at Glenn Anderson. I remember that all too well years ago and they were attacking the player in their columns. Its not recent that the pressers here have been jackasses. Its unending.

We're at a far worse point with Woody here now. its not even close. The Oilers were never favorites under Tippett. That roster was full of holes and bondo. Really it was a miraculous patch job. This here is a comparitively loaded roster that Woody flushes down the toilet with his not ready for prime time coaching. I don't even know why Manson is here either.

It was terrible seeing actual hockey guys like Huddy and Weight here for their ceremony in the context of where the org is at this instant. Those guys are solid hockey people. Gold.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Its provincial too. But I can't get into that at length. But Alberta hate is far too common in this country. Far worse East of Manitoba but increasingly present in lower mainland as well.

Actually out east nobody realises there's a Western conference.

Seriously. The entire west is an afterthought. Not just hockey. Politics, culture, everything. For all anyone cares Canada ends at Ontario's western border.

 

[BlackDogg]

Sorry to spoil your Friday...

Doesn't matter what the media is talking about, its about protecting "their" ass and not telling the real story.

 

[BlackDogg]

TSN makes me sick. Saying that coaching isn't the answer, that theres no need to do that, and that Seattle game is the big one and that we just continue as is if we win the Seattle game.

Everybody in the hockey world was saying LAST NIGHT was the must win, that the team would implode with a loss in SJ Moving target?

Last night was probably the night to make a move to try and salvage the season as far as that goes. Now its definately going to be too late. Esp if they win one game, then lose three more. They need a new voice regardless if they want the players who have "quit" this team to come around.

Now if the managerial staff and Katz believe that McDrai is sulking and crying - maybe they are sticking it to them by not making a change this time, and just thinking the season is a writeoff anyway.