Post-Game Talk: Woll/Devils 5 plus EN, Leafs 3

[Hellcat]

Agreed so the question is overpay (see Nylander) with virtually no chance of playoff success or , allow him to walk and use the cap space to fill your needs or get him to waive to a team he is wiling to extend with (see MT, PLD).

The Leafs being the Leafs will choose to overpay and it will be rinse and repeat. He will suck in the playoffs, they will exit quickly, fans will criticize him and his dad, the Marner fan club will continue to tell anybody who will listen that he is a HOFer, super elite PKer and Matty needs him, and the media will put shambles in his head.

#SayNoToInsanity

When you say "he" are you referring to Willie, he's been a decent playoff performer, the last four years he's one point shy of being a PPG player. I'm not so sure its an individual problem as much as it is a coaching/GM problem. Any one team would fall over themselves to have anyone of Willie, Mitch or Austin on their team... It's not a top end talent issue IMO as much as it is a we dont have a good supporting cast, one poster put it succinctly that the supporting cast is picked out of a garbage bin every year. Our GM's / Coaches inability to assess what is needed, Dubas was very biased towards moving the puck, didn't care that there are more things to hockey than moving the puck, so we became a very myopicly built team with only one goal in mind, move the puck. There are systems that shut down teams that move the puck quickly.

We had/have very little in the terms of secondary talent, our team would never be called a quick team, we would never be called a structurally sound team, consistency is not something you can say our team can be called. We dont forecheck particularly aggressively or consistently, we are not a good board team, we dont manage attackers in the slot particularly well.

We are a cap team, most teams are cap teams and dont win the cup, it's not that we spend money, its that we dont assess talent or our needs well. We dont typically trade smart, we've gutted our picks and prospects for players who are no better than what we had before we traded for those players. We dont retain talent well. Yes the players play the game and yes they need to be held accountable to a certain extent but a Lambo with no tires is no faster than a statue. Austin ,Mitch, Willie are the Lambo, the no tires is the supporting cast.

We need better GM's, better coaches, better supporting players, better prospects. Generally speaking it's a cluster from the top on down.

 

[Racer88]

Compare the Media huddle after a Leafs game vs a Kings or Panthers, etc. on a Tuesday night and then tell me again there is not more scrutiny for the Leafs. In many NHL cities the NHL barely gets off the back pages, Willie riding the TTC was front page news in Toronto.

I do agree complacency has seeped in but then again can you blame fans? The Leafs have shown us who they are for the last 6 years and will show us again this year. They are first round chum in the waters for the better teams. We are the warm up round for good teams, I bet every team that has faced us in the playoffs would not say, wow those guys really beat us up. They would say , if we stick to our system , we know they wont, so we will eventually break them down into individuals trying to be Jesus the saviour and we will beat them. There is not a single playoff team this year that I think we can beat in a 7 game series except for Washington.

This is a sad description of our team but not one I can argue against

 

[81Leafs50]

counting chickens before they've hatched is a fool's errant.................

because the possibility of a world wide pandemic is always just around the corner right? lol

 

[Hellcat]

because the possibility of a world wide pandemic is always just around the corner right? lol

Every team had to deal with the pandemic. If the pandemic is a legit excuse explain why three teams since 2020 have won the cup? The pandemic did not prevent Tampa, Colorado and Las Vegas from winning a Cup.

 

[Stephen]

The truth is both of you are right.

People do under estimate the amount of pressure there is to be a leaf. We’ve had a long ass drought, not a ton of playoff success and the fans are insane. For some of the same reasons It makes it the best place to play. But to pretend or act like Toronto isnt one of if not the hardest places to play is just nonsense. There isn’t a ton of guys who could handle playing here in a big role.

That being said it shouldn’t be used as an excuse as to why this group hasn’t gotten it done. They’ve been given everything they need to succeed (except a legit #1 D)

We all have bad days at work, in the office, what have you. But when I see the Leafs unhurried, sloppy play and erratic quality, I don’t see it as people dealing with intense stress and pressure, but a group that is causally okay with what they’re doing, looking ahead to other stuff and fairly comfortably reinforced by positive messaging.

There obviously is pressure in Toronto for a Maple Leaf team to play well but these guys look like they’re not really dialled in.

 

[Stephen]

because the possibility of a world wide pandemic is always just around the corner right? lol

Imperfect roster and pandemic cap crunch can only go so far as to explain the Leafs lack of playoff success. It’s not like the core was blasting hat tricks and putting the team on their back but they just didn’t have enough horses every year. They just face planted year after year.

 

[Knies iT]

So many overreactions on Woll, especially one game removed from a stellar performance in Carolina.

I have all the patience in the world for Woll. I have very low expectations this year with the way Dubas left our blueline. This season should be treated as an opportunity to retain our 1st rd pick while giving as much exposure as possible to Woll, Robertson, Knies, Liljegren, Holmberg, etc. so that there are less growing pains next season when we have a serious team.

I'd throw Woll to the wolves this year. Play out the reg. season and go 50/50 with Samsonov in the playoffs.

 

[Nylander88]

So many overreactions on Woll, especially one game removed from a stellar performance in Carolina.

I have all the patience in the world for Woll. I have very low expectations this year with the way Dubas left our blueline. This season should be treated as an opportunity to retain our 1st rd pick while giving as much exposure as possible to Woll, Robertson, Knies, Liljegren, Holmberg, etc. so that there are less growing pains next season when we have a serious team.

I'd throw Woll to the wolves this year. Play out the reg. season and go 50/50 with Samsonov in the playoffs.

While I agree with our blueline being left in bad shape...I think if Keefe puts in the lineup he should (Benoit over Brodie), we're maybe the most physical and solid blueline to date thanks to Treliving.

Rielly-Lyubushkin
Benoit-McCabe
Edmundson-Liljegren

Playoffs become a simple game. Intensity ratchets up. Clear the net front, make the opponent keep their head up, off the boards and out. This set up we have at least 1 of those types on each pairing...Benoit-McCabe being our shutdown pair if we get into heavy line matching.

I myself have patience with Woll....but this will likely be Sammys ball to roll with come game #1...something I never thought I'd say a few short months ago lol.

 

[Knies iT]

While I agree with our blueline being left in bad shape...I think if Keefe puts in the lineup he should (Benoit over Brodie), we're maybe the most physical and solid blueline to date thanks to Treliving.

Rielly-Lyubushkin
Benoit-McCabe
Edmundson-Liljegren

Playoffs become a simple game. Intensity ratchets up. Clear the net front, make the opponent keep their head up, off the boards and out. This set up we have at least 1 of those types on each pairing...Benoit-McCabe being our shutdown pair if we get into heavy line matching.

I myself have patience with Woll....but this will likely be Sammys ball to roll with come game #1...something I never thought I'd say a few short months ago lol.

I definitely like the makeup and personality of our D now, but we are simply lacking the quality to go beyond 1-2 rounds. Past successful contenders that have followed a similar roster construction with weaker blue lines have still had 2x high-quality D that can anchor separate pairs, at minimum.

We have half a top pair built around an OFD and two third pairings. It's just not enough. Hopefully entering next season with one of Pesce/Skjei/Roy/Hanifin via UFA will be a start.

 

[Maple Leaf]

I definitely like the makeup and personality of our D now, but we are simply lacking the quality to go beyond 1-2 rounds. Past successful contenders that have followed a similar roster construction with weaker blue lines have still had 2x high-quality D that can anchor separate pairs, at minimum.

We have half a top pair built around an OFD and two third pairings. It's just not enough. Hopefully entering next season with one of Pesce/Skjei/Roy/Hanifin via UFA will be a start.

It is obvious how to build a team
Obvious to everyone except Leafs management

 

[ToneDog]

It is obvious how to build a team
Obvious to everyone except Leafs management

Tank for the Yank, add a couple of highly skilled ballerinas and the rest will take care of itself.

 

[Antropovsky]

Keefe complained about the first goal being allowed by Woll. Traditionally, those types of shots seem to always give goalies fit. Hughes used the leaf defender as a screen and shot between the defenders legs.

Sure it would be better to save the shot, but it wasn't an exceptionally easy shot to track.

Frusterates me that Keefe finds it easy to attack the lower paid guys but holds back and is careful how he chooses his words with the core.Woll isn't paid to be a #1 guy and generally gives alot of bang for his buck.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Keefe complained about the first goal being allowed by Woll. Traditionally, those types of shots seem to always give goalies fit. Hughes used the leaf defender as a screen and shot between the defenders legs.

Sure it would be better to save the shot, but it wasn't an exceptionally easy shot to track.

Frusterates me that Keefe finds it easy to attack the lower paid guys but holds back and is careful how he chooses his words with the core.Woll isn't paid to be a #1 guy and generally gives alot of bang for his buck.

It's a lot easier to replace a coach than a sixty goal scoring centre.

Just ask Babcock.

 

[Racer88]

Every team had to deal with the pandemic. If the pandemic is a legit excuse explain why three teams since 2020 have won the cup? The pandemic did not prevent Tampa, Colorado and Las Vegas from winning a Cup.

Exactly

 

[Da Cool Rula]

One off by Woll. Still not 100% on Sammy.

 

[Nylander88]

I definitely like the makeup and personality of our D now, but we are simply lacking the quality to go beyond 1-2 rounds. Past successful contenders that have followed a similar roster construction with weaker blue lines have still had 2x high-quality D that can anchor separate pairs, at minimum.

We have half a top pair built around an OFD and two third pairings. It's just not enough. Hopefully entering next season with one of Pesce/Skjei/Roy/Hanifin via UFA will be a start.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if a couple short years ago I didn't see a big, lumbering, defence-first blueline eliminate us and go all the way to the cup finals (Montreal)
Featuring a heavily used top 4 of Weber, Petry, Edmundson, and Chiarot.

 

[francis246]

So many overreactions on Woll, especially one game removed from a stellar performance in Carolina.

I have all the patience in the world for Woll. I have very low expectations this year with the way Dubas left our blueline. This season should be treated as an opportunity to retain our 1st rd pick while giving as much exposure as possible to Woll, Robertson, Knies, Liljegren, Holmberg, etc. so that there are less growing pains next season when we have a serious team.

I'd throw Woll to the wolves this year. Play out the reg. season and go 50/50 with Samsonov in the playoffs.

Long term it makes sense to have patience with Woll. But how can you reasonably look at his latest starts and say yes he should be the starter come game 1. You can’t. He hasn’t earned it. He’s definitely the starter for the future, but in the short term Samsonov should be getting game 1 if healthy unless Woll shows something in the next two weeks.

 

[Antropovsky]

It's a lot easier to replace a coach than a sixty goal scoring centre.

Just ask Babcock.

Babcock was disliked for being Babcock. Issues with him seem to be a behind closed door thing and not what he publically said. I'd say he's pretty average when it comes to calling out players in post games

Woll makes what 1 million? Overall he's been pretty damn good.

Your problem is the expensive players. Whether it be being leaders and motivating the team to play hard (see Chara, Roberts etc) or producing on ice. They want to take as much of the cap as they can, they should be held accountable for bad games, not the guys making less than average pay and near minimum wage.

 

[rumman]

because the possibility of a world wide pandemic is always just around the corner right? lol

Somethings always around the corner be it a pandemic, world war, global recession……..

 

[81Leafs50]

Somethings always around the corner be it a pandemic, world war, global recession……..

lol so all the business in the world should stop hiring and spending, all sports teams should spend less and cut players, banks should stop lending out money, cause there maybe a world war around the corner? which would definitely cause a recession.

Every team had to deal with the pandemic. If the pandemic is a legit excuse explain why three teams since 2020 have won the cup? The pandemic did not prevent Tampa, Colorado and Las Vegas from winning a Cup.

COL was good. Tampa and Vegas were 15M over the cap. They flaunted that fact in everyone's face.

 

[rumman]

lol so all the business in the world should stop hiring and spending, all sports teams should spend less and cut players, banks should stop lending out money, cause there maybe a world war around the corner? which would definitely cause a recession.


COL was good. Tampa and Vegas were 15M over the cap. They flaunted that fact in everyone's face.

View attachment 844356

Exactly, plan for the worse, hope for the best, or suffer in silence and stop bitching about would have, could have scenarios……….

 

[Hellcat]

lol so all the business in the world should stop hiring and spending, all sports teams should spend less and cut players, banks should stop lending out money, cause there maybe a world war around the corner? which would definitely cause a recession.


COL was good. Tampa and Vegas were 15M over the cap. They flaunted that fact in everyone's face.

View attachment 844356

Excellent all you have to do is spend over the cap and you win the cup... (tongue in cheek). BTW Toronto is currently at $100,281,450 are we the first $100+ million team?

Business revenue / expenses are not linear, when people say the Leafs did not win because of the Pandemic are saying the Leafs essentially blindly planned for no down turn, of any sort, a recession, a pandemic, a war, whatever. Anyone who's over the age of 30 and does not live under a rock, knows the economy expands and contracts. It's a normal function of a Free Market system, it has to to remain "stable". It's not that we had a pandemic, its that we did not draft, recruit, acquire the proper people to win in the East. You have to have some sort of downturn in the economy, natural or artificial, or you will have out of control inflation and that would crush countries.