WJC thread

[Bunch of Jurcos]

Russia v. Germany was a story of which Russian team was going to show up. They have dominated a game they had to win to stay out of the relegation game. Up early 2-o, and then in the second period Russia scored on a power play that was also a delayed whistle for their first power play goal of the tournament. Then on the subsequent power play the Russians scored again and put the game seemingly out of reach. Later on in the period they scored their third power play of the game to extend the lead to 5 to 0.

Bokk looked okay tonight so far. He has been on PP1 and if Germany had more years with this first PP group they would be something nice. On a German PP in the second period, he tried a back pass to a teammate and it was intercepted which led to a 2 on 0. He has to be more aware of the situation that Germany was down 2 and needed to be safe to cut into the lead.

Askarov has looked sharp when he had to tonight but honestly hasn't had much work outside of power plays. Lost the shut out with 2:16 to go. Tried an aggressive poke check on a breakaway that didn't work.

Stutzle is a difference maker on the ice. He's looked to be the most talented player on the ice at times. I'd absolutely consider him at the 3rd pick in the draft and you could make a case he could be 2nd as well.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Whether or not it's actually true as an adage, I'm perfectly fine with the draft philosophy "fill the bottom of your lineup with guys that projected to be in the top of your lineup and fell short." I think that's the sentiment bleed is expressing with Drury and I think I concur. It's not that you can safely expect a top 6 forward from the second round (as BBA broke out above, they're tough to find), it's that you want to pick a guy where that is indeed his ceiling.

I guess I'd rather pick a guy that might be Logan Couture and ends up being Nick Bonino, rather than the guy that projects to be Nick Bonino. Not that it's that much of a science that we can 100% say that Drury doesn't have a high ceiling, but it's the sentiment I was trying to express.

 

[bleedgreen]

Whether or not it's actually true as an adage, I'm perfectly fine with the draft philosophy "fill the bottom of your lineup with guys that projected to be in the top of your lineup and fell short." I think that's the sentiment bleed is expressing with Drury and I think I concur. It's not that you can safely expect a top 6 forward from the second round (as BBA broke out above, they're tough to find), it's that you want to pick a guy where that is indeed his ceiling.

I guess I'd rather pick a guy that might be Logan Couture and ends up being Nick Bonino, rather than the guy that projects to be Nick Bonino. Not that it's that much of a science that we can 100% say that Drury doesn't have a high ceiling, but it's the sentiment I was trying to express.

Yup. All that.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Do we know they didn't view him as that way and thought that Bonino was his floor with all the intangibles? Perhaps they saw him as a guy with a higher ceiling that most? They could be wrong, but perhaps not. Perhaps they thought he was the second coming of O'Reilly or who knows?

Now, like I said before, perhaps that was the last draft that had been prepared under old school thoughts. We seemed to take a lot of safer kids and less shots for skill in the past. This may have been the remnants of that.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Do we know they didn't view him as that way and thought that Bonino was his floor with all the intangibles? Perhaps they saw him as a guy with a higher ceiling that most? They could be wrong, but perhaps not. Perhaps they thought he was the second coming of O'Reilly or who knows?

Now, like I said before, perhaps that was the last draft that had been prepared under old school thoughts. We seemed to take a lot of safer kids and less shots for skill in the past. This may have been the remnants of that.

That very well may be the case. Seeing him as the "faceoff specialist" for the US is what sparked the conversation. I suppose making a team this deep is an accomplishment in itself, though. He is PPG at Harvard so far this year (only 10 games). Maybe he does have another gear.

 

[The Stranger]

Do you want a guy that could be Logan Couture with the possibility of only being Nick Bonino...orrrrrrrr...a guy who can only be Bonino...c'mon HFcanes. OK...I suppose you could get more detailed with a distribution of possibilities and make it a real decision.

What is Drury's ceiling? We've got one eval from Bleed. I'm almost more intrigued to watch a prospect after a bad eval than a good one...will need to try and watch some Harvard replays on ESPN+.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Do you want a guy that could be Logan Couture with the possibility of only being Nick Bonino...orrrrrrrr...a guy who can only be Bonino...c'mon HFcanes. OK...I suppose you could get more detailed with a distribution of possibilities and make it a real decision.

What is Drury's ceiling? We've got one eval from Bleed. I'm almost more intrigued to watch a prospect after a bad eval than a good one...will need to try and watch some Harvard replays on ESPN+.

"Not that it's that much of a science that we can 100% say that Drury doesn't have a high ceiling, but it's the sentiment I was trying to express." is how I ended that post.

I think my point was pretty clear in what I was saying and what I wasn't. Bleed says "I want a top 6 forward", BBA says "that's very rare in the 2nd round." I was offering a draft philosophy, not an attempt at a breakdown of Drury's play.

The point is that we often fall into "well, if he doesn't have a lot of skill, he must have a high floor", and "if he has a lot of skill, he must be boom or bust." Sometimes guys are just better than others, and have a higher ceiling and a higher floor. I'd rather go for the guys that might be gamebreakers, and use the guys that fail to become that to fill out the roster. That's the point. I'm not going to break out all the things Drury "might" be, because the point wasn't a breakdown of his play, but instead to help illustrate the general draft philosophy.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Frankly I'm not even discounting the notion that the Canes had that exact mindset in mind when they drafted him. Maybe they do see "Logan Couture" in there somewhere. And maybe he ends up being Nick Bonino anyway, in which case they fill out the bottom of their roster exactly as I've outlined. I just recall that people weren't hugely excited about his upside when we drafted him, either.

 

[bleedgreen]

Smelled like a bloodlines pick, which we got sensitive to over the years. His dad was a grinder at the NHL level too, so hopes of him turning out more like his uncle seemed pretty far fetched.

In relation to how his peers are doing as Dave said he’s probably fine. In general though yes I’d prefer guys in the first couple of rounds have high ceilings even if they aren’t all that likely to reach them.

Because of his draft position there’s an obvious bias to say he’s better than say a Clark Bishop, when it’s pretty likely he’s headed for exactly the same kind of role - though maybe his draft position and bloodlines will get him longer looks at that spot than Bishop has. Which is fine I’m just saying overall to me his ceiling seems to be a scrappy third or fourth line center. Watching him skate in his first camp made me wonder how much we had really scouted him, but if all ranked around him were similarly flawed I can see how the pick happened a little better.

It’s not something I’m particularly emotional about personally, it just comes up at this time of year when the wjc’s are going on.

 

[NotOpie]

From the little I've been able to find, I do believe that Drury's skating has gotten a bit better. I'd also say he's got underrated hands. Kid was in the Top 20 in freshman scoring, putting up 24 in 32 games. In his draft year, he had a 22 game point streak. The point is, he's not without offensive skills. It's just that he's also allegedly got serious leadership qualities, plays the game hard all the time, and thinks the game well. I'm not hoping for a 2nd coming of anybody in particular, but I think his ceiling would be a 2nd line center and would be an adequate 3rd liner. The fact that he's good in the dot and is a defensive beast smells like "Jordan Staal" replacement.

 

[Lempo]

Logan Couture sounds like high fashion sharp enough to cut you like an adamantium claw.

 

[bleedgreen]

So I’m not allowed to ask where I can watch the Canada game.

If only there was a way to watch as I don’t have the nhl network.

 

[Unsustainable]

Canada has 3PP goals. Scored their 3rd 30sec into a 5 min pp

 

[Unsustainable]

4 PP goals... still 3 mins left on this PP

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Marek Malik’s kid is now in goal for the Czechs.

 

[Unsustainable]

Czech goalie hurt from the last one.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Honka scored

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

What a shitshow this game is.

 

[My Special Purpose]

His ceiling seems to be third line center, which makes for a poor second rounder to me sometimes but maybe he’s viewed as a near lock for making at least as a fourth line center so he was rated high? I had hopes until I saw him skate at that first camp. Then I stopped having any hopes and was annoyed we drafted him there. He’s basically a slower Clark Bishop to me at this point unless he really works at the skating and improves his offense.

Agreed. Like Loustarinen, he seemed to be a too-safe bottom-6’er. Lou has impressed me more than that low expectation, though, so maybe Drury can be more...? I dunno.

To me, what these debates illustrate more than anything is that we've entered a new era in Hurricanes prospect watching. These guys are all being given time to develop at their own pace, which is good, because that's what kids do. We tend to judge kids too soon. Way too soon, in most cases. And we simply don't have to be in a hurry anymore.

Martin Necas is a perfect example. He's got 22 points in 35 NHL games as a 20-year-old rookie. That's not good. It's *ridiculously* good. Necas's ceiling is as a legit No. 1 scoring center, IMO. But we've run the gamut from adjusting expectations, to thinking maybe he's a bust, to pitching him in trades, *and he doesn't turn 21 for two weeks*.

IMO, Necas's ceiling is similar to Elias Lindholm's. Except Necas didn't get rushed to the NHL. He played another season in Czech, and a full season in the AHL. There's very little doubt in my mind that if Lindholm had been handled the same way, he'd be a better player than he is now -- which is pretty darn good -- and he'd have hit that level sooner.

Gauthier and Bean are another year behind Necas, but still have a legit shot to make an impact. Not every prospect is Andrei Svechnikov, and very few should be treated the way he has been.

I'm skeptical to speak to anybody's "ceiling" at this point in their development. Sure, we can compare playing styles, but *most* kids don't become the player they're going to be until age 23 or so.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I agree with everything you said but he doesn’t turn 21 for two weeks you had me very confused and excited and wondering how he was possibly draft eligible in 2017.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

To me, what these debates illustrate more than anything is that we've entered a new era in Hurricanes prospect watching. These guys are all being given time to develop at their own pace, which is good, because that's what kids do. We tend to judge kids too soon. Way too soon, in most cases. And we simply don't have to be in a hurry anymore.

Martin Necas is a perfect example. He's got 22 points in 35 NHL games as a 20-year-old rookie. That's not good. It's *ridiculously* good. Necas's ceiling is as a legit No. 1 scoring center, IMO. But we've run the gamut from adjusting expectations, to thinking maybe he's a bust, to pitching him in trades, *and he doesn't turn 20 for two weeks*.

IMO, Necas's ceiling is similar to Elias Lindholm's. Except Necas didn't get rushed to the NHL. He played another season in Czech, and a full season in the AHL. There's very little doubt in my mind that if Lindholm had been handled the same way, he'd be a better player than he is now -- which is pretty darn good -- and he'd have hit that level sooner.

Gauthier and Bean are another year behind Necas, but still have a legit shot to make an impact. Not every prospect is Andrei Svechnikov, and very few should be treated the way he has been.

I'm skeptical to speak to anybody's "ceiling" at this point in their development. Sure, we can compare playing styles, but *most* kids don't become the player they're going to be until age 23 or so.

Considering the average age of Cup-winning squads, I’m still of the belief that players peak in their mid-late 20s, at least when it comes to their all-around games. Yes, many young players are incredibly entertaining to watch and put up a ton of points, but looking at squads like Boston, St. Louis, and Washington, and those teams are still built with veterans from top-to-bottom with a touch of youth.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Had to turn off that CAN-CZE game, the officiating was absolute horseshit (and has been all tournament)...it was unwatchable after they spent 10 min looking at a cellphone to give CAN goal #3

 

[zman77]

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Don't say that to the hockey hipsters, they'll scoff at you at the same time that they're secretly crying into their yerba mate mugs because they don't have Svechnikov or these other amazing kids on their team.

 

[Lucky Lindy]