WJC Prospects?

[Vino]

Simontaival is having another exceptional WJC's. I mean he got jobbed by the officials twice so far by not giving him an assist on Sammi H's goal. I mean he was the primary assist on the play and he got snubbed there and they took a goal from him and then didn't give him an apple when he was the guy who made the shot on net. They will straighten it out after the tourney but he as been dynamite so far every game. Sure he is older than several of the kids on his team but he had a great tourney last season so I don't think it really matters.

When Helenius scored his goal, Simontaival (#29) was not on the ice. #28 Eetu Liukas and #23 Kalle Väisanen (passer) won that puckbattle behind the net.

Helenius had a good game against Canada, but his wingers (Mäenpää, Lambert) were pretty bad, especially #19 Juuso Mäenpää. As a Finn I hope that was last time when I see that undersized piece of shit on the ice.

 

[ru4reals]

Looks like Team USA is going to get upset by team Czechia. Just Lifeless sheesh.

 

[tny760]

got a pretty good one liner out of that game, something like "good luck seeing around helenius, it's like a lunar eclipse when he's in front of the net"

i only saw the condensed game, but it sure seems like he knows his game and sticks to it, forecheck and go to the front of the net

would've had the secondary on a gold-winner if not for mctavish (or a tripping penalty depending on how you look at it)

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

got a pretty good one liner out of that game, something like "good luck seeing around helenius, it's like a lunar eclipse when he's in front of the net"

i only saw the condensed game, but it sure seems like he knows his game and sticks to it, forecheck and go to the front of the net

would've had the secondary on a gold-winner if not for mctavish (or a tripping penalty depending on how you look at it)

Yeah he was going HARD to the net and just taking everything with him, dude was a total f***ing planet out there, gravitational pull and all. Pro family, so I'm sure he can appreciate knowing one's role and just being really really good at it. And it's not like he's just a plodding offensive liability, he's got smarts and good hands, at least enough to be a pro, not to be a high scorer, but enough so that the bottom six should still be a scoring threat too with him out there. I get some Adam Lowry vibes.

 

[tny760]

Yeah he was going HARD to the net and just taking everything with him, dude was a total f***ing planet out there, gravitational pull and all. Pro family, so I'm sure he can appreciate knowing one's role and just being really really good at it. And it's not like he's just a plodding offensive liability, he's got smarts and good hands, at least enough to be a pro, not to be a high scorer, but enough so that the bottom six should still be a scoring threat too with him out there. I get some Adam Lowry vibes.

it definitely does look like a pro game from him, i'm excited as can be for a bottom sixer

the goalie jatkola stood out to me too, he was f***in fightin.. don't want to put that evil on him but he looked a bit like mike smith out there

 

[Lt Dan]

I don't want to put that evil on him but he looked a bit like mike smith out there

 

[DoktorJeep]

With Hugelenius and Lee, I’m hoping the Kings brew their own versions of guys like Crouse, Greenway and like RJ said, Lowry. A bunch of bottom six beef will help this team become better all around.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Can't remember the last time I was so checked-out on the world juniors. I watched a little at the beginning, but I just wasn't into it. Overall, I just feel the games were not very compelling and the talent level was much lower than normal.

 

[Choralone]

Scott Wheeler wrote about prospects in the Tournament today in the Athletic 2022 IIHF World Junior Championship: Scott Wheeler’s tournament notebook. Below are his writeups on Kings prospects:

F Samuel Helenius (Los Angeles Kings): Good on PK winning battles and using his long stick to be disruptive/break up plays. Played with more of a nastiness/pest attitude this week than in any previous international tournament before. Starting to take after his dad (former tough guy Sami) a little. He usually plays a surprising skill game for his size (6-foot-6). Simplified in this tournament.

F Kasper Simontaival (Los Angeles Kings): Makes plays into space with the puck on his stick (often to himself when defenders step up on him). One of those tiny players who excels playing at the front of the net on the PP. He can play the wall, but his pivots into pockets and the way he handles the puck around the crease really lend well to that screen position. Made a ton of little plays at the post/around the net. He was good, as he usually is for Finland.

D Helge Grans (Los Angeles Kings): Struggled against USA’s pressure. Missed a wide open net against Germany. Looked like he didn’t know how to play the 5-on-3 against Finland. There were moments in each game that kind of left me a little sour on Grans’ game. I don’t think he was bad, but he certainly could have been better.

 

[kinghock]

Scott Wheeler wrote about prospects in the Tournament today in the Athletic 2022 IIHF World Junior Championship: Scott Wheeler’s tournament notebook. Below are his writeups on Kings prospects:

2022 WJC Recap w/ Cameron Gaunce - LA Kings Insider

Cameron Gaunce should be next Kings coach.

He is so smart regarding analyzing players

 

[All The Kings Men]

2022 WJC Recap w/ Cameron Gaunce - LA Kings Insider

Cameron Gaunce should be next Kings coach.

He is so smart regarding analyzing players

When I started recording that episode I was concerned I wouldn't have enough for a full episode.

I cut it off when I realized we had been talking for almost an hour... then I stayed on the call with him for another 30 minutes or so.

 

[Kudelski37]

When I started recording that episode I was concerned I wouldn't have enough for a full episode.

I cut it off when I realized we had been talking for almost an hour... then I stayed on the call with him for another 30 minutes or so.

I enjoy listening to your interviews and Gaunce was one of your best guests. Keep up the good work.

 

[Herby]

Just like it’s dumb when people completely inflate and overreact to someone having a good tournament let’s not do the opposite with Grans.

I realize writers are filling a demand and fans needlessly obsess over this tournament but I just have no idea how 100 games between probably the 3rd and 4th best leagues in the world as a teenager can be so easily disregarded and a player can be “soured on” by 7 games in a make-up tourney in August.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Just like it’s dumb when people completely inflate and overreact to someone having a good tournament let’s not do the opposite with Grans.

I realize writers are filling a demand and fans needlessly obsess over this tournament but I just have no idea how 100 games between probably the 3rd and 4th best leagues in the world as a teenager can be so easily disregarded and a player can be “soured on” by 7 games in a make-up tourney in August.

Let's listen to what Cameron Gaunce had to say about it!

It was really interesting.

 

[King'sPawn]

Just like it’s dumb when people completely inflate and overreact to someone having a good tournament let’s not do the opposite with Grans.

I realize writers are filling a demand and fans needlessly obsess over this tournament but I just have no idea how 100 games between probably the 3rd and 4th best leagues in the world as a teenager can be so easily disregarded and a player can be “soured on” by 7 games in a make-up tourney in August.

As with anything, context matters.

Are the errors and behavior (or qualities) the same as normally observed? Or are the circumstances magnifying or diminishing a player? Is it because it's a short tourney and switching back to a previous system is disorienting?

If we're examining the circumstances instead of handwaving a performance as "good" or "bad" then it's fair game

 

[All The Kings Men]

As with anything, context matters.

Are the errors and behavior (or qualities) the same as normally observed? Or are the circumstances magnifying or diminishing a player? Is it because it's a short tourney and switching back to a previous system is disorienting?

If we're examining the circumstances instead of handwaving a performance as "good" or "bad" then it's fair game

You know who does a great job of providing context?

Cameron Gaunce

 

[Choralone]

Just like it’s dumb when people completely inflate and overreact to someone having a good tournament let’s not do the opposite with Grans.

I realize writers are filling a demand and fans needlessly obsess over this tournament but I just have no idea how 100 games between probably the 3rd and 4th best leagues in the world as a teenager can be so easily disregarded and a player can be “soured on” by 7 games in a make-up tourney in August.

Grans was supposed to be a project, so it wouldn't surprise me if he takes one step back for every two forward. Consistency will be the last part of his game to round into form. That said, Wheeler's observations are just one point of subjective data at a moment in time.

 

[kinghock]

Grans was supposed to be a project, so it wouldn't surprise me if he takes one step back for every two forward. Consistency will be the last part of his game to round into form. That said, Wheeler's observations are just one point of subjective data at a moment in time.

I like Cameron Gaunce opinion about Grans more…

 

[Choralone]

I like Cameron Gaunce opinion about Grans more…

I haven't had time to listen to it yet, but I intend to!

 

[Statto]

You know who does a great job of providing context?

Cameron Gaunce

I’m on a long drive tomorrow. I have it ready to go.

 

[LB]

When I started recording that episode I was concerned I wouldn't have enough for a full episode.

I cut it off when I realized we had been talking for almost an hour... then I stayed on the call with him for another 30 minutes or so.

This guy will absolutely make a great scout/development coach/coach if he wants to pursue one of those after his playing career!

 

[Herby]

Let's listen to what Cameron Gaunce had to say about it!

It was really interesting.

I listened, thank you. I'd much prefer to hear more of a breakdown from what Grans has done in the AHL (which he did touch on a bit).But even the big game player stuff, I really just don't agree with it, it's still to small a sample size.

Jordan Eberle was a WJC rockstar, maybe the best WJC player of the last 20 years. 14 goals and 26 points in 12 WJC games. If we heavily value that, it should make him a big game player, right? But his playoff stats show a player who has 13-23-36 in 62 games. Not horrible by any stretch but also not someone you would call a big game player.

Cole Caufield was horrible in the 2021 WJC. Does that make him a player who doesn't shine on the big stage? That was the narrative around here and from certain media people. A couple of months later he was a difference making player in the NHL playoffs at age 20, tell the Vegas Golden Knights that a bunch of people on a messageboard said he isn't a big game player because of a junior tournament, I'm sure they'd disagree.

Helge Grans by all indications was very good as an 18 year old in the SHL
He then moved on to the AHL as a 19 year old and also had a strong season in his first year in NA.

In the WJC he played 7 games.

Switzerland
Austria
USA
Germany
Latvia
Finland
Czech Rep.

Due to the Russians being 86'ed from international hockey you basically have 4 games that are against what would be considered strong teams. Four Games! That is a week in the NHL. And pundits are talking about souring on a player? Scott Wheeler could spend 2 weekends in Ontario next season watching the Reign and see Grans play as many meaningful games (in the 3rd best league in the world) as he did in this WJC. 2 weekends, or 6% of Grans season. I just continue to find it incredible how so many ideas and narratives about players can be created by such a small sample size.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I listened, thank you. I'd much prefer to hear more of a breakdown from what Grans has done in the AHL (which he did touch on a bit).But even the big game player stuff, I really just don't agree with it, it's still to small a sample size.

Jordan Eberle was a WJC rockstar, maybe the best WJC player of the last 20 years. 14 goals and 26 points in 12 WJC games. If we heavily value that, it should make him a big game player, right? But his playoff stats show a player who has 13-23-36 in 62 games. Not horrible by any stretch but also not someone you would call a big game player.

Cole Caufield was horrible in the 2021 WJC. Does that make him a player who doesn't shine on the big stage? That was the narrative around here and from certain media people. A couple of months later he was a difference making player in the NHL playoffs at age 20, tell the Vegas Golden Knights that a bunch of people on a messageboard said he isn't a big game player because of a junior tournament, I'm sure they'd disagree.

Helge Grans by all indications was very good as an 18 year old in the SHL
He then moved on to the AHL as a 19 year old and also had a strong season in his first year in NA.

In the WJC he played 7 games.

Switzerland
Austria
USA
Germany
Latvia
Finland
Czech Rep.

Due to the Russians being 86'ed from international hockey you basically have 4 games that are against what would be considered strong teams. Four Games! That is a week in the NHL. And pundits are talking about souring on a player? Scott Wheeler could spend 2 weekends in Ontario next season watching the Reign and see Grans play as many meaningful games (in the 3rd best league in the world) as he did in this WJC. 2 weekends, or 6% of Grans season. I just continue to find it incredible how so many ideas and narratives about players can be created by such a small sample size.

Well if your point is that the WJC is dumb and we give it too much attention I'll sign that petition.

 

[Herby]

Well if your point is that the WJC is dumb and we give it too much attention I'll sign that petition.

It's not that it's dumb. It's a fun tournament that means a lot to the players, especially for the US and Canada. I think the obsession with it in Canada makes it a big deal to our guys. I enjoy watching the tournament and cheering for the USA and seeing Canadians lose their minds the years they lose.

I could just never imagine being someone who does this for a living and "souring on" a player who has accomplished a lot in premier NHL feeder leagues over 2 seasons because he had a couple of down games in an U-20 tournament. And the same on the flip side, I find it amazing that people will bring up WJC's from 2,3,4,5 years ago when discussing 21, 22, 23, 24 year old players who have had multiple seasons of pro hockey since then of which to evaluate.

 

[BigBrown]

Helge Grans wasn't great but he wasn't bad either. He was for the most part paired with Edvinsson and seemed to defer to him for breakouts and such. Hard to argue he played to his full potential but almost no one on the Swedish roster did. I wouldn't read too much into it, especially with the tournament being in the middle of summer.