Post-Game Talk: WJC 2024 Thread

[sting101]

ASPs hat trick and game against Slovakia as a 19yr old coming from the SELand Willander 's game for that matter shouldn't change a thing for how they are viewed going forward.

Willander still looks like a much better fit for our team needs and should have less defensive adjustment time which is critical for our window. Certainly ASP outstanding offensive acumen gives him more potential to be an all situations stud

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Digging both the Finnish and Canadian jerseys.

 

[ManVanFan]

The issue I see is this - as ASP is entering the NHL, we could be losing Quinn Hughes to free agency. Having someone like that waiting in the wings goes a long way towards our ability to trade Hughes (should he not commit long term) for a King's Ransom. But we're basically screwed without Hughes regardless of what we would realistically receive in return.

This defence is starving for another PMD. Hughes can't do it all himself, and Braunstrom is a decent short term solution but likely not the answer.

I still think Willander will be a surefire top 4 defenceman, but likely not an elite top pairing force. Jury will be out for a while if he was the right pick or not.

There are many PP QB's joining the NHL these days. Their value will start to diminish soon.

 

[bobbyb2009]

Just turned it on. Is Mynio registered and dressed/playing yet?

 

[Phrasing]

Just turned it on. Is Mynio registered and dressed/playing yet?

No

 

[Quinning]

No

Lame

 

[StreetHawk]

Man. Martone looks huge on the ice on that CAD PP.

 

[1440]

The entry prior to the Cowan goal was way offside. Are there no coaches challenges in this tournament?

 

[Vector]

The discourse about Willander vs ASP from this tournament is going to make me rip my hair out. I don’t necessarily mean here but there’s a lot of people who have only ever watched either play in these tournaments making grand proclamations.

What gets to me, the vast majority of people have no idea how to properly evaluate NHL traits in defensive prospects. Hell, I have long argued that very few actually understand what makes an NHL defenceman effective.

 

[ManVanFan]

Just turned it on. Is Mynio registered and dressed/playing yet?

This game could have used Mynio.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

The discourse about Willander vs ASP from this tournament is going to make me rip my hair out. I don’t necessarily mean here but there’s a lot of people who have only ever watched either play in these tournaments making grand proclamations.

What gets to me, the vast majority of people have no idea how to properly evaluate NHL traits in defensive prospects. Hell, I have long argued that very few actually understand what makes an NHL defenceman effective.

No one knows what makes an NHL dman effective. That goes for people employees by NHL teams, amateur scouts and anyone who follows hockey.

That’s because it’s entirely based on variables, differentiating factors, situational dependent and sometimes just darn luck.

It’s why a dman can look utter lost with one team and fantastic with another. Or not get a minute of playing time because they “don’t fit the team structure/style” but fit in like a glove elsewhere.

Regarding ASP vs Willander, offense was, is and always will be typically “more valued” than defense. Same goes with forwards. It’s not say that two-way play and defens is not valued. It’s just goals win games so most people put more of an emphasis on it.

Both teams should be happy with their picks but anyone outright dismissing drafting ASP over Willander because of Hughes when Hronek is the only other capable dman we have and the fact neither ASP or Willander could conceivably play a role on either team for awhile needs to give their head a shake.

 

[tantalum]

Not just led the team with nearly 25 minutes but that was 4 minutes more than anyone else. Clearly an all situations defender the coaching staff wants to lean on.

 

[Diversification]

...
Both teams should be happy with their picks but anyone outright dismissing drafting ASP over Willander because of Hughes when Hronek is the only other capable dman we have and the fact neither ASP or Willander could conceivably play a role on either team for awhile needs to give their head a shake.

I think both players have high upsides. I also wouldn't be surprised if both ASP and Willander both play regular minutes for their respective NHL teams next season.

 

[Scumbag Frank]

neither ASP or Willander could conceivably play a role on either team for awhile needs to give their head a shake.

For a typical non-top 10 pick in his D+2...yeah generally it's a safe bet that he needs a year or 2 in the AHL, even guys who have played pro like D-man Elias Pettersson or Lekkerimaki.

Watching him play, Willander is not that 'B+' tier of prospect - he's a legit blue chip. I'm willing to bet he's ready by the end of this college year and kicks our 3rd RD (Desharnais/Brannstrom/Juulsen/whoever) out of the lineup.

His game is far more advanced than our other AHL D prospects currently and he plays a heady game that coaches can trust, which is conducive to stepping right into the NHL. He doesn't have the brainfarts of D-Petey or the miscues like Kudryavtsev. Not to mention he can make a damn pass unlike the rest of the oafs we have in our bottom 4.
The only thing that may hold him back is just physical strength, but he's probably still better than someone like Brannstrom in that regard.

 

[VanJack]

They should seriously think about turning the World Junior Tournament into a 'Four Nations Cup', or at least until Russia allowed by into the competition.

There was once a time when it looked like countries such as Switzerland and Germany might be close to icing competitive junior teams. But judging from the results this year, they're sliding backwards.

The Czech and Slovaks are capable of the odd upset......but most of the time they're cannon fodder for the 'big four'. And I wonder sometimes whether teams like Latvia, Norway, Denmark, Belarus or Kazakhstan would be capable of beating the Vancouver Giants.

This tournament has gone stale, despite the best efforts of TSN to pump the tires on these lopsided preliminary round games. Wake me up when they finally get to the semi-finals.

 

[Jerry the great]

The discourse about Willander vs ASP from this tournament is going to make me rip my hair out. I don’t necessarily mean here but there’s a lot of people who have only ever watched either play in these tournaments making grand proclamations.

What gets to me, the vast majority of people have no idea how to properly evaluate NHL traits in defensive prospects. Hell, I have long argued that very few actually understand what makes an NHL defenceman effective.

it's a bit like trying to project an NFL QB. so much of it comes down to mobility, processing power and whether they have enough of each to overcome other limiting factors.

 

[Hodgy]

No one knows what makes an NHL dman effective. That goes for people employees by NHL teams, amateur scouts and anyone who follows hockey.

That’s because it’s entirely based on variables, differentiating factors, situational dependent and sometimes just darn luck.

It’s why a dman can look utter lost with one team and fantastic with another. Or not get a minute of playing time because they “don’t fit the team structure/style” but fit in like a glove elsewhere.

Regarding ASP vs Willander, offense was, is and always will be typically “more valued” than defense. Same goes with forwards. It’s not say that two-way play and defens is not valued. It’s just goals win games so most people put more of an emphasis on it.

Both teams should be happy with their picks but anyone outright dismissing drafting ASP over Willander because of Hughes when Hronek is the only other capable dman we have and the fact neither ASP or Willander could conceivably play a role on either team for awhile needs to give their head a shake.

I tend to agree with this. And I also think there is an almost implicit thought that steady two way or defensive defensemen like Willander are somehow safer than someone like ASP in terms of busting. And I think that just isn’t true. And in fact, the opposite might

 

[PuckMunchkin]

The discourse about Willander vs ASP from this tournament is going to make me rip my hair out. I don’t necessarily mean here but there’s a lot of people who have only ever watched either play in these tournaments making grand proclamations.

What gets to me, the vast majority of people have no idea how to properly evaluate NHL traits in defensive prospects. Hell, I have long argued that very few actually understand what makes an NHL defenceman effective.

Ignoring eye test voodoo. Its still a pretty decent rule of thumb that if the prospect does not produce points at lower levels they have a really small chance of making it even as a bottom pairing / bottom 6 guy.

The players who beat those odds are the outliers.

They should seriously think about turning the World Junior Tournament into a 'Four Nations Cup', or at least until Russia allowed by into the competition.

There was once a time when it looked like countries such as Switzerland and Germany might be close to icing competitive junior teams. But judging from the results this year, they're sliding backwards.

The Czech and Slovaks are capable of the odd upset......but most of the time they're cannon fodder for the 'big four'. And I wonder sometimes whether teams like Latvia, Norway, Denmark, Belarus or Kazakhstan would be capable of beating the Vancouver Giants.

This tournament has gone stale, despite the best efforts of TSN to pump the tires on these lopsided preliminary round games. Wake me up when they finally get to the semi-finals.

Finlands jr system is also in serious trouble.

 

[Vector]

Ignoring eye test voodoo. Its still a pretty decent rule of thumb that if the prospect does not produce points at lower levels they have a really small chance of making it even as a bottom pairing / bottom 6 guy.

The players who beat those odds are the outliers.

Yes but what does that have to do with what I said?

 

[VanJack]

Canucks have a lot of players who starred in the World Jr. Hockey Championships--Pettersson, J.T. Miller, Sedins, Naslund, Ohlund, Kesler and in the crease Demko and Schneider.

But on one dominated that tournament the way Lekkerimaki did last year--taking home the tournament MVP award as the leading scorer.

It's been a bit of an uneven first season in N.A., but still a Grade A prospect.

 

[DFAC]

Canucks have a lot of players who starred in the World Jr. Hockey Championships--Pettersson, J.T. Miller, Sedins, Naslund, Ohlund, Kesler and in the crease Demko and Schneider.

But on one dominated that tournament the way Lekkerimaki did last year--taking home the tournament MVP award as the leading scorer.

It's been a bit of an uneven first season in N.A., but still a Grade A prospect.

Dont forget WJC standouts Jordan Shroeder and Cody Hodgson

 

[604]

This tournament has gone stale, despite the best efforts of TSN to pump the tires on these lopsided preliminary round games. Wake me up when they finally get to the semi-finals.

Honestly, none of the international tournament games matter until the elimination games.

Even at the Olympics in 2010, I believe Canada was helped by losing in the round robin so they had to play an “extra” elimination game against Germany. Helped the team figure each other out.

 

[604]

Dont forget WJC standouts Jordan Shroeder and Cody Hodgson

Schroeder was a compiler. Played more years than the dominant players so put up more career points while never making the all-star team.

Hodgson was on an amazing WJC line with John Tavares. Despite Hodgson outscoring Tavares, JT took the MVP honours. I’m convince injuries derailed what would have been a very good career for Hodgson.

 

[Vman]

Sawyer Mynio, hoping he can get at least a game. He is so underrated especially after his improved play the last 2 seasons. He is just behind Willander as the Canucks #2 defense prospect.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yes but what does that have to do with what I said?

Okay.

I thought you were commenting on projecting Willander and ASP and those projections making you crazy..?