U18: WJC 2019: Finland

[FiLe]

Yes we are more than well aware by now he isn't able to represent another country for two years (I was well aware of this before you even pointed it out). Yet I'm not sure which part of the message doesn't come through, the part where he can obviously stall his time, ignore the World Juniors altogether for the next coming years and just focus on the <insert a league> games and then play the WJC for the Canada jersey come his draft year should he so choose, or that we just shot ourselves in the foot by taking entirely unnecessary risk by not letting him have at least some small role in the team this year already. Lambert publicly stated he would've played for us had we asked.

Did you read the post I made below the one you quoted? Lambert isn't CHL eligible yet, because he doesn't turn 16 over the summer. This means his options are either to stay in Finland with the Pelicans juniors, playing steadily among 18-to-20-year-olds and perhaps even get a Liiga game or two... or go play midget hockey in the Canadian system among 14-15-year-olds, leaving his friends and family behind to boot, if he's really that heck bent on keeping his Canadian option open. I think it's no question which choice offers him a greater challenge, a better chance to develop, and is also more convenient outside the rink. So yeah, the odds are he stays in Finland at least for another season, and thus the earliest he'd be eligible to play for Canada would be the 2023 U20 tournament - which would both be past his draft year and his last chance. So unless he's somehow injured whenever there's a U18 or U20 event in the preceding years, I don't think he can really afford to ignore Finland's calls.

So are you arguing it was a good call not assuring Lambert's loyalties as soon as possible or do you have some other agenda you're trying to push and assume it's being read between the lines? Considering the outcome of the U18s I really don't even see what's left there to discuss, unless you can somehow make an argument for Finland missing a spot in the quarterfinals altogether with slightly different setup. That is. if one even considers that much of a loss knowing how the team got coached, both in the bench and on the ice).

What I'm saying is that this squad was stacked on paper and was considered one of the gold medal favorites before the tournament. In other words, to shoehorn in one 15-year-old would have meant dropping out a more deserving 16-or-17-year-old who's presently ahead in the curve. Unless I'm mistaken, you seem to consider the end result a validation of the opinion that they should have picked Lambert to lock him down. The thing just is, in this case it would have meant deliberately weakening a team that was strong in appearance and shooting for gold. Yes, it turned out that it was actually a rather weak team and yes, picking Lambert wouldn't have really made it much weaker. But to argue this outcome was something one should have seen before the tournament when the picks were being made, consider it a realistic possibility, that does take some kind of gift of clairvoyance.

That last statement makes absolutely no sense whatsover. Lambert is half Finnish, half Canadian and should he choose the latter no one could blame him. We are potentially looking at top 3 pick in the world and definitely one of the best coming out of the country who's still in the pipelines and basically you're saying "oh well not much of a loss in case of the worst scenario". M'kay.

What I'm saying is that to be eligible for Canada, for the next 2-3 years he should be systematically ignoring Finland's calls and keep sitting out tournaments that give him a chance to showcase his skills. And if he does that, then we were never a realistic option for him, despite what he's said. You shouldn't mourn the loss of something that was never yours.

 

[SantosHalper]

Who is the head coach of next season for our U18 team? They need to put coaches like Juujärvi in the junior head coaching cycle instead of some of these older fart coaches of the Finnish Ice Hockey Federation.

Young hungry coach for a young team is the key in juniors. The likes of Ahokas and Niemelä.

Anssi Laine 2019-2020 ('02 kids)
Petri Karjalainen 2020-2021 ('03 kids)
and Mika Marttila again in 2021-2022 ('04 kids)

 

[kelsier]

Did you read the post I made below the one you quoted? Lambert isn't CHL eligible yet, because he doesn't turn 16 over the summer. This means his options are either to stay in Finland with the Pelicans juniors, playing steadily among 18-to-20-year-olds and perhaps even get a Liiga game or two... or go play midget hockey in the Canadian system among 14-15-year-olds, leaving his friends and family behind to boot, if he's really that heck bent on keeping his Canadian option open. I think it's no question which choice offers him a greater challenge, a better chance to develop, and is also more convenient outside the rink. So yeah, the odds are he stays in Finland at least for another season, and thus the earliest he'd be eligible to play for Canada would be the 2023 U20 tournament - which would both be past his draft year and his last chance. So unless he's somehow injured whenever there's a U18 or U20 event in the preceding years, I don't think he can really afford to ignore Finland's calls.

Yeah, Lambert didn't enter the WHL draft which was held at March which from our perspective is a great thing and yes he's not CHL eligible. This leaves him with two options, i) staying in Finland and play ASM or even maybe few games in FEL next year already. ii) He could move to Canada with his parent(s) and play in the jr leagues against much younger opponents for a one year and then join CHL the year after. Obviously the downside would be lack of equivalent competition vs to what he currently has. The upside? Learning to play in the smaller rinks early on, much wider publicity in the largest possible market (Canada), unlocking the option to represent Canada should he stay for another year and play for the WJC 2022 - his draft year. The ball is fully in his corner right now and he can pick which ever the route he wishes.

What I'm saying is that this squad was stacked on paper and was considered one of the gold medal favorites before the tournament. In other words, to shoehorn in one 15-year-old would have meant dropping out a more deserving 16-or-17-year-old who's presently ahead in the curve. Unless I'm mistaken, you seem to consider the end result a validation of the opinion that they should have picked Lambert to lock him down. The thing just is, in this case it would have meant deliberately weakening a team that was strong in appearance and shooting for gold. Yes, it turned out that it was actually a rather weak team and yes, picking Lambert wouldn't have really made it much weaker. But to argue this outcome was something one should have seen before the tournament when the picks were being made, consider it a realistic possibility, that does take some kind of gift of clairvoyance.

This is kind of amusing because you're painting it as if Lambert would've been somewhat a restraint in a team that couldn't even beat Czech Republic let alone Belarus. Sigh. Like seriously? You do realize we are talking about a kid who already was facing older competition this year and wasn't in any way suppressing his team in the ASM, quite the contrary actually - Lambert had been playing well against opponents much older than him.

What I'm saying is that to be eligible for Canada, for the next 2-3 years he should be systematically ignoring Finland's calls and keep sitting out tournaments that give him a chance to showcase his skills. And if he does that, then we were never a realistic option for him, despite what he's said. You shouldn't mourn the loss of something that was never yours.

No what you said and I quote "And if he refuses that call because he wasn't invited to this tournament, then he was not worth our time in the first place.", which is absolutely ridiculous statement. Would Barkov not have been worth our time had he not been invited when the opportunity was presented? What you said makes no sense. For instance should my employer overlook my efforts and not care about my work and there was an option to go somewhere else where my performance had been noted and they'd present an invite, I probably wouldn't have to think twice about taking up on the offer. Who's bad would it be then? Mine? No.

Like said, Lambert publicly stated that he'll join whichever nation asks him first. So all of this "mourning for something that wasn't yours in the begin with" is baffling to say the least. And for whatever that means, we at least missed the first opportunity and that's on us - the staff that made the selections and lead this team to a abysmal end result despite of having plenty of tools at disposal as you said it yourself. It would be utter stupidity to think that Canada wouldn't have their eyes on this kid already. They will not be sleeping like the Russians did with Barkov, who would have joined Team Russia had they asked (according to his father) and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't already been in contact with his family. Let alone believe that Lambert doesn't have ties to his "second" country. Apparently he spends his summers practising there (Saskatchewan) and probably visits and lives with his family & relatives.

I'm not even sure what exactly it is that you are even arguing here. That we made the right choice by not locking him up now, especially after already knowing the not-so-sweet outcome and early exit? If so, I really don't know how your world spins. Nonetheless, despite of being annoyed by their ignorance I doubt there's anything permanent done here and Finland still holds the upper hand as far as this kid is concerned, mostly due to the better development route that's available. Still, who can really say where his patriotism, dreams and hopes rely. Even if he was unsure or hesitant in terms of wearing the Lion jersey, yet we still got him, that'd be a huge asset for the future - exactly like Barkov was.

 

[FiLe]

No what you said and I quote "And if he refuses that call because he wasn't invited to this tournament, then he was not worth our time in the first place.", which is absolutely ridiculous statement.

It's not. If Lambert is so upset that he decides to represent Canada because Finland didn't invite him to a U18 tournament as a 15-year-old, then he's obviously a headcase and I won't shed a tear after players like that. But if he isn't (and I believe he isn't), we still have two years, at minimum, to lock him down. So not inviting him here was no harm, no foul.

Like said, Lambert publicly stated that he'll join whichever nation asks him first.

And Canada has no dibs on him for two years at least. So why exactly are you making such a noise over him not being invited to this tournament? Either you're afraid this was our only chance to lock him down, which would only be true if this was the only tournament he would have agreed to dress for us (and you just quoted him saying it isn't so), or you agree that they can do it any time over the next two years, in which case complaining about not locking him down now is an exercise in frivolity.

They will not be sleeping like the Russians did with Barkov, who would have joined Team Russia had they asked (according to his father) and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't already been in contact with his family.

I think the Russians were "sleeping", because Barkov would have had to fulfill the same two-year-rule. So they would have had to lure him to Russia, then somehow make sure he ignores Finland for the next two years. It's likely they simply didn't see it worth the effort. Of course, this has no bearing on Lambert and Canada, but the two-year-rule is there to give one country a clear advantage, and as long as that advantage is in place, the country that has it has little reason to fast-track a player through the system, especially as long as he is inside the system.

I'm not even sure what exactly it is that you are even arguing here. That we made the right choice by not locking him up now, especially after already knowing the not-so-sweet outcome and early exit? If so, I really don't know how your world spins. Nonetheless, despite of being annoyed by their ignorance I doubt there's anything permanent done here and Finland still holds the upper hand as far as this kid is concerned, mostly due to the better development route that's available.

I'm arguing that there is no reason to be annoyed that Lambert didn't get invited to this tournament, especially since you appear to admit that you would have only done it to lock him down. We still have at least two years to do that while Canada can do little more than hope he ignores our calls. I'm also arguing that we had at least 15 better U18 eligible forwards at our disposal, and 13 of them made the squad. (I also think that next year he'll be in.) So the reasons for not picking him were entirely justifiable, and no one should complain that they didn't. Using the results table post-tournament is not an argument, because when the team was being selected, there was no way to tell that they would crash and burn this spectacularly. They were ignorant about a lot of things, obviously, but not picking Lambert was not one of them.

 

[kelsier]

It's not. If Lambert is so upset that he decides to represent Canada because Finland didn't invite him to a U18 tournament as a 15-year-old, then he's obviously a headcase and I won't shed a tear after players like that. But if he isn't (and I believe he isn't), we still have two years, at minimum, to lock him down. So not inviting him here was no harm, no foul.

Well you've stated it numerous times by now that should he choose an option not preferable to you then that's not much of a concern, as if it didn't really matter to you from the get go. So I'm not surprised to hear that. Perhaps in the process you're not taking in account that we're dealing with 15 year old who may have aspirations and mindset not comparable to someone twice as old and might not really know what he wants from the future, and who still relies on his parents (where one happens to be Canadian). Nonetheless, that would be a huge loss for the country as we can never have enough prospects who are from the absolute top tier. Choosing another country than Finland doesn't make one a headcase however, geez.

And Canada has no dibs on him for two years at least. So why exactly are you making such a noise over him not being invited to this tournament? Either you're afraid this was our only chance to lock him down, which would only be true if this was the only tournament he would have agreed to dress for us (and you just quoted him saying it isn't so), or you agree that they can do it any time over the next two years, in which case complaining about not locking him down now is an exercise in frivolity.

Suppose you've misunderstood something. I simply said they made a bad choice by not locking him up as soon as possible and presented the reason why. I'm not upset, just annoyed by the misstep or mistake, whichever you want to call it. Also I guess I'm a bit baffled why you're being so anxious to defend this staff or belittle the matter but then again, each to their own I suppose.

I think the Russians were "sleeping", because Barkov would have had to fulfill the same two-year-rule. So they would have had to lure him to Russia, then somehow make sure he ignores Finland for the next two years. It's likely they simply didn't see it worth the effort. Of course, this has no bearing on Lambert and Canada, but the two-year-rule is there to give one country a clear advantage, and as long as that advantage is in place, the country that has it has little reason to fast-track a player through the system, especially as long as he is inside the system.

I think it was more a matter of not really giving a f*** since they already had so much prospects in their own pipeline along with the large core of players in the big league. Barkov was extremely highly touted early bloomer who came in to the league as a 16 year old. They had more than plenty of time to reach out for him yet never did. With that said, the so called "two year rule" is kind of senseless. Barkov makes an excellent example by owning zero Finnish genes and having both parents Russian. He should have been able to represent Russia simply by this fact itself. It seems that IIHF has recognized this as well since they've granted exceptions in the past. Considering Barkov being not being 50/50, but 100% Russian by bloodline alone, I'm certain they would've at least looked into this if Russia so wanted (with Barkov blessing of course), but it never came down to that as we all know.

I'm arguing that there is no reason to be annoyed that Lambert didn't get invited to this tournament, especially since you appear to admit that you would have only done it to lock him down. We still have at least two years to do that while Canada can do little more than hope he ignores our calls. I'm also arguing that we had at least 15 better U18 eligible forwards at our disposal, and 13 of them made the squad. (I also think that next year he'll be in.) So the reasons for not picking him were entirely justifiable, and no one should complain that they didn't. Using the results table post-tournament is not an argument, because when the team was being selected, there was no way to tell that they would crash and burn this spectacularly. They were ignorant about a lot of things, obviously, but not picking Lambert was not one of them.

There's every reason to be annoyed if you want the best for the country and by this trajectory I'm sure Lambert will become one of the best players of his generation. The decision to postpone this when he was already ready to play in the tournament (who knows how well) wasn't a good one. And like stated many times over by now, Lambert certainly wouldn't have made it any worse. Usually I watch this tournament but at the moment I've been so busy that I simply didn't have the time so I cannot really comment on who of the chosen 13 didn't belong. Would be conscious dishonesty to start picking apart kids based on what I've read and that's not really my way. Then again, when a reigning champion cannot even beat Belarus and gets absolutely blown away by USA, one must wonder did all these players deserve the jersey in the begin with. Of course the people standing behind the bench take their share of the "glory" (not only outside the bench but in it).

At the end of the day when you have these facts at hand and argue against making a room for one player then well, I'm sure anyone can do the math (of thinking whether it may have been a good idea to secure an important piece for the future).

 

[FiLe]

Choosing another country than Finland doesn't make one a headcase however, geez.

It does if the motivation of choosing is not making a U18 tournament as a 15-year-old. But like I said, I believe that Lambert will be happy to pick up Finland's call next season when it inevitably comes. Even more so if he's still playing in Finland, which seems pretty likely. His Canadian dad has a steady job in the Pelicans organization and I think his Finnish mom is in no rush to leave the country either. Also, he mentioned in the same interview where that "I'll choose the one that calls first" soundbite is from that he intends to start lukio next fall, which also implies he's staying around for at least another season.

There's every reason to be annoyed if you want the best for the country and by this trajectory I'm sure Lambert will become one of the best players of his generation. The decision to postpone this when he was already ready to play in the tournament (who knows how well) wasn't a good one. And like stated many times over by now, Lambert certainly wouldn't have made it any worse. Usually I watch this tournament but at the moment I've been so busy that I simply didn't have the time so I cannot really comment on who of the chosen 13 didn't belong. Would be conscious dishonesty to start picking apart kids based on what I've read and that's not really my way. Then again, when a reigning champion cannot even beat Belarus and gets absolutely blown away by USA, one must wonder did all these players deserve the jersey in the begin with. Of course the people standing behind the bench take their share of the "glory" (not only outside the bench but in it).

When I looked at the roster before the games began, I didn't see a single player I would have left off in the favor of Lambert. So I definitely can't fault the management for not picking him. Would I have thought otherwise knowing what we know now, maybe, but I hate making arguments based on hindsight. So they definitely picked 13 individuals who are presently better than Lambert. They just failed to manage to make them play as a team. And I doubt Lambert would have been much help with that anyway.

As for the rest of your post, I don't see much to disagree with. They're entirely reasonable positions. I just don't agree with the idea that they were somehow ignorant or did something they shouldn't have done by leaving him out, because they still have plenty of time to lock him down.

 

[Sanf]

This may be slightly boring and bit kukkahattutäti opinion, but selecting Lambert to the team to "lock him" is slightly questionable.

He is 15. Let him have one year more to think what he wants to do and who he wants to represent. He is kid still next year too, but still slightly less impacted by the outside opinions.

 

[FiLe]

This may be slightly boring and bit kukkahattutäti opinion, but selecting Lambert to the team to "lock him" is slightly questionable.

He is 15. Let him have one year more to think what he wants to do and who he wants to represent. He is kid still next year too, but still slightly less impacted by the outside opinions.

Especially since taking part in these games wouldn't have really locked him to us anyway... it simply would have made him a subject to the four-year-rule.

So in the case of him crossing over this summer, he could still have changed his mind, ignored Finland's calls and started representing Canada from 2023 onwards. Of course, that would have been somewhat unlikely outcome if he had played for Finland now, but still a shorter shot than most cases, since he would have been eligible for the switch before he's even turned 20. (Though it would have meant him sitting out every U18 and U20 tournament he would have been eligible for.)

 

[ijuka]

But, why is it such an established narrative now that Lambert is planning on going to play in Canada or something? Everything he's said and done indicates that he's staying in Finland.

 

[FiLe]

But, why is it such an established narrative now that Lambert is planning on going to play in Canada or something?

It's not. The odds are something like 20 to 1 that he's going to represent Finland. I guess some just thought that he should have been invited now to eliminate even that slight chance.

 

[kelsier]

It does if the motivation of choosing is not making a U18 tournament as a 15-year-old. But like I said, I believe that Lambert will be happy to pick up Finland's call next season when it inevitably comes. Even more so if he's still playing in Finland, which seems pretty likely. His Canadian dad has a steady job in the Pelicans organization and I think his Finnish mom is in no rush to leave the country either. Also, he mentioned in the same interview where that "I'll choose the one that calls first" soundbite is from that he intends to start lukio next fall, which also implies he's staying around for at least another season.

When I looked at the roster before the games began, I didn't see a single player I would have left off in the favor of Lambert. So I definitely can't fault the management for not picking him. Would I have thought otherwise knowing what we know now, maybe, but I hate making arguments based on hindsight. So they definitely picked 13 individuals who are presently better than Lambert. They just failed to manage to make them play as a team. And I doubt Lambert would have been much help with that anyway.

As for the rest of your post, I don't see much to disagree with. They're entirely reasonable positions. I just don't agree with the idea that they were somehow ignorant or did something they shouldn't have done by leaving him out, because they still have plenty of time to lock him down.

You don't even have to consider the fact that we are dealing with a 15 year old young teenager and yet you are labelling that kid as a nut-head or whatever for a sheer possibility of not bending your way. Sigh. A person, any person - or in this case a player - who's in a position to pick between two countries is completely free to choose whichever path that is most beneficial to him and have whatever reasons behind that decision, all the while it being his business and his alone. One can easily come up with tens if not hundreds of different reasons to sway one way or the other. Some of which we aren't even aware about. If not getting locked down when the opportunity was there was one amongst those many, then that's on Finnish Hockey Federation, not on Brad Lambert.

Well then I suppose perhaps your judgement want's as great as you thought. After all, when we can't score enough goals to beat a second or third tier hockey country with our so called "strong" group no matter how bad the coaching or strategy may have been, that's still beyond pathetic. Can't remember missing any U18s WHJCs in the past 5-10 years and now I'm just glad I didn't have the time to tune in. I'm quite sure Lambert is already a much better hockey player than most players who played for Belarus for instance and yet our so called better and older players couldn't even bring that one home.

The world isn't falling apart here and I'm confident Lambert will still represent Finland in the future, I just dislike the inevitable question mark until proven otherwise. It's not really even about not agreeing at least with some of your assessments, but maybe it's just some kind of carelessness that strikes along with this "so what" kind of an attitude. I'm not sure if there's really much conversation left here since we pretty clearly have quite the opposite stand as far as the whole story goes. Either way, fingers crossed for Lambert wearing the jersey come next year and the team & staff actually getting it's s**t together.

 

[FiLe]

You don't even have to consider the fact that we are dealing with a 15 year old young teenager and yet you are labelling that kid as a nut-head or whatever for a sheer possibility of not bending your way. Sigh. A person, any person - or in this case a player - who's in a position to pick between two countries is completely free to choose whichever path that is most beneficial to him and have whatever reasons behind that decision, all the while it being his business and his alone. One can easily come up with tens if not hundreds of different reasons to sway one way or the other. Some of which we aren't even aware about. If not getting locked down when the opportunity was there was one amongst those many, then that's on Finnish Hockey Federation, not on Brad Lambert.

Sigh right back at ya. All I've said is is that if being left out of this team, because he didn't make it as a 15-year-old because we had older players ahead in the curve, is the SOLE reason Lambert ends up picking Canada - as in, he's still upset about this, say, a year or two down the road when Finland's trying to invite him and lock him down, then he's a headcase. But if he picks Canada for some other reason after a careful consideration, then he obviously isn't. And as I also said, I don't really believe he is, and I believe he'll happily pick up and join the squad once Liitto comes calling the next season. But since YOU were behaving as if not picking him now could end up costing us a top shelf prospect, the only I kind of scenario in which I could personally see it happening is if he really is a so-called "troubled soul". But once more, for emphasis, I don't really believe he is, and as thus I see no reason to worry about not picking him now, especially if he's true to his word and picks the country that asks him first. Because that country WILL be Finland.

This is all. Please try to understand now. Especially since I can tell we're not that far apart with the rest of it.

 

[ijuka]

"still upset about this"... There's been no indication of him being upset in the first place.

 

[FiLe]

"still upset about this"... There's been no indication of him being upset in the first place.

"if"... Earlier in the sentence. Your English comprehension appears to need a little work, since you're criticizing a statement that's given as a hypothetical. It's also funny because I now find myself repeating, what, for the third or fourth time, that I believe the reality is that Lambert will have no issue representing Finland when the call eventually comes.

Anybody got any iron wire?

 

[ijuka]

My English comprehension should be quite alright. My point is that such baseless speculation isn't very fruitful. You could speculate about all sorts of things if you wanted to, such as a top player deciding to quit hockey because they don't feel like practicing anymore, which is about as sensible as this speculation.

 

[FiLe]

My English comprehension should be quite alright.

I beg to disagree, because you're trying to argue with someone who holds the same opinion as you.

 

[kelsier]

Sigh right back at ya. All I've said is is that if being left out of this team, because he didn't make it as a 15-year-old because we had older players ahead in the curve, is the SOLE reason Lambert ends up picking Canada - as in, he's still upset about this, say, a year or two down the road when Finland's trying to invite him and lock him down, then he's a headcase. But if he picks Canada for some other reason after a careful consideration, then he obviously isn't. And as I also said, I don't really believe he is, and I believe he'll happily pick up and join the squad once Liitto comes calling the next season. But since YOU were behaving as if not picking him now could end up costing us a top shelf prospect, the only I kind of scenario in which I could personally see it happening is if he really is a so-called "troubled soul". But once more, for emphasis, I don't really believe he is, and as thus I see no reason to worry about not picking him now, especially if he's true to his word and picks the country that asks him first. Because that country WILL be Finland.

This is all. Please try to understand now. Especially since I can tell we're not that far apart with the rest of it.

Is any decision ever just a sum of one single reason? No, that doesn't apply to most things in life, not even the one we've been running back and forth with. That should be as obvious as one not even needing to point it out regardless of the exact context. There's no reason to believe for this young man to not have many factors to consider for whatever he comes up with, some dictated by the past and others dictated by the future. Heck, his father might get offered a coaching job from across the Atlantic and wanting to take his family aboard. We just never know and I wouldn't even be surprised if Canada slammed something like that on the table only to get the kid into the system or throw some other bones. Other than that and I could quote almost word to word, you made some strong statement about the "worst case scenario" at the very beginning in the whole dialogue, like him not being ours in the begin with (which is not a correct statement unless you believe he's making up stories).

I doubt the Federation's (or it's staff) decision will weight too heavy in regards to whatever he decides to do in the future. That wasn't the point in the begin with as I've said oh so many times already. Where I fully disagree is not disclosing at the first possible window while knowing he'd been up and ready for the challenge just like (or should I say unlike all) the rest of them, which is where this debate ultimately always draws back to. And like said, leaving him out from this year's tournament shouldn't really weight in much if at all as far as next year is concerned - there's absolutely nothing that would indicate anything of the kind. With that said, I'm not sure what to make of some of these comments (no matter the context considering the topic and it consisting a very young teenager) that withhold person related adjectives like "troubled soul" or "headcase" or what not. Nonetheless, suppose we'll be wiser come next decade in regards to whether or not he'll be tied to the Lion jersey or just remain be half a citizen.

 

[FiLe]

Heck, his father might get offered a coaching job from across the Atlantic and wanting to take his family aboard. We just never know and I wouldn't even be surprised if Canada slammed something like that on the table only to get the kid into the system or throw some other bones.

Can Canada extract a promise from him that he won't pick up when Finland eventually calls? For example, offer him a chance to play at next year's U18, or maybe the following year's U20? Canada can't make him either of those offers under the IIHF's present rules. Only Finland can. And if he says yes, that's Canada's dastardly plan thwarted right there.

I'm sure Canada is aware of this kid too. Do I see them seizing the opportunity if Finland falls asleep at the wheel and we miss our window? Sure. But I doubt they will be taking any aggressive measures to "convert" him. After all, it's not like he's the second coming of McJesus. He's a very good prospect with every tool to make a very good NHLer some day, yes. But Canada does have plenty of pieces like that. While I don't mean to belittle their interest, he's regardless a much bigger deal to us than he is to them.

With that said, I'm not sure what to make of some of these comments (no matter the context considering the topic and it consisting a very young teenager) that withhold person related adjectives like "troubled soul" or "headcase" or what not.

Consider the following statement: "I know you don't like the color green. But we have to paint the house. And if green paint is all the store has, then we will paint the house green. But if there's any other color, we'll pick that, I promise."

Now, is this person saying the house will be green no matter what? No, he's laying out a very specific scenario for the house ending up green, and one that seems quite unlikely at that. Just like I laid out a very specific scenario for calling Lambert a "headcase" - which is similarly quite unlikely to pass. So if you're really find it that problematic that I'm using those expressions, please give your head a fair shake and work it out of your system.

 

[kelsier]

Can Canada extract a promise from him that he won't pick up when Finland eventually calls? For example, offer him a chance to play at next year's U18, or maybe the following year's U20? Canada can't make him either of those offers under the IIHF's present rules. Only Finland can. And if he says yes, that's Canada's dastardly plan thwarted right there.

I'm sure Canada is aware of this kid too. Do I see them seizing the opportunity if Finland falls asleep at the wheel and we miss our window? Sure. But I doubt they will be taking any aggressive measures to "convert" him. After all, it's not like he's the second coming of McJesus. He's a very good prospect with every tool to make a very good NHLer some day, yes. But Canada does have plenty of pieces like that. While I don't mean to belittle their interest, he's regardless a much bigger deal to us than he is to them.

Who can really tell, eh? It was just an example to point out that things are never just black and white and people who fall under such illusion are also often the ones who get caught pants down. Oh and lets not forget that situations may change as well as intentions.

Erm, Lambert is a little bit more than just "another good prospect" of which we had abundance of in the U18s even this year, when looking into roster. He was the youngest player in the ASM just last year and his skills/tools are absolute top notch from what I've seen of him - and I do follow prospects a lot. Not only does he look as one of the most promising players of his age class, but perhaps the only one who could stand up to Savoie come the time, granted that his development doesn't astray from the current trajectory.

Consider the following statement: "I know you don't like the color green. But we have to paint the house. And if green paint is all the store has, then we will paint the house green. But if there's any other color, we'll pick that, I promise."

Now, is this person saying the house will be green no matter what? No, he's laying out a very specific scenario for the house ending up green, and one that seems quite unlikely at that. Just like I laid out a very specific scenario for calling Lambert a "headcase" - which is similarly quite unlikely to pass. So if you're really find it that problematic that I'm using those expressions, please give your head a fair shake and work it out of your system.

Whichever adjectives you wish to prefer is fully up to you and at best I found them a bit extreme and amusing at the same time. Just not ones in my vocabulary whenever having a debate or having a discussion over a prospect. After all none of that is really relevant, but rather just a peculiar observation. At the end of the day we do now know that the team was never in for competing for the gold medal and we supposedly know that Lambert would have represented us had he been given the call. Which end result you like better, the young lions getting bent over and finally blown apart after the first round or Lambert being locked down for the future and perhaps getting a different result in the progress? Of course it's a bit lame to be smart after the fact but that's just the reality (still if it was in my hands I would've made space for him even prior to championships or at least called if he was even interested).

Then again I doubt there's much common ground to be shared here so maybe it's just best to agree to disagree with the decision made by the people who were in charge of this team.