Transfer: Winter Transfer Thread

[AB13]

Which players from Leicester are top 4 quality if we assume the top for is City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs? Pereira could start for all besides Liverpool. Vardy would start for Chelsea but not the others. Soyuncu starts for Spurs and Chelsea. Ndidi for maybe for Spurs and City but not sure about that. Otherwise no one else really comes close to starting for any of those teams.

Leicester have also had incredible, unsustainable refereeing bias for two seasons now that has given them about 15 extra points. They have had 8 penalties this season, none of them clearly worthy of a penalty.

 

[AB13]

Two posts below yours. no but I think there’s two maybe three posters that are really bad and paint a bad picture for the more reasonable Arsenal fans (like you and a few others here).

Yeah, totally unreasonable to say Arsenal have close to a top 6 squad, I am so clueless. They are all mid-table players, sure.

 

[Blender]

Which players from Leicester are top 4 quality if we assume the top for is City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs? Pereira could start for all besides Liverpool. Vardy would start for Chelsea but not the others. Soyuncu starts for Spurs and Chelsea. Ndidi for maybe for Spurs and City but not sure about that. Otherwise no one else really comes close to starting for any of those teams.

Leicester have also had incredible, unsustainable refereeing bias for two seasons now that has given them about 15 extra points. They have had 8 penalties this season, none of them clearly worthy of a penalty.

I'm not having this conversation again, it's just recycling the same one that has been had multiple times.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Leicester don´t have a particularly good squad

I think that is extremely harsh. Their squad and Arsenal's are on a similar level.

 

[AB13]

I think that is extremely harsh. Their squad and Arsenal's are on a similar level.

Arsenal don't have a particularly good squad. But it is not much worse than Leicester as a biased Chelsea fan thinks.

 

[cgf]

EPL is obviously weak right now, but not so weak that Arsenal have a top 6 squad. Come on now.

 

[Blender]

EPL is obviously weak right now, but not so weak that Arsenal have a top 6 squad. Come on now.

Obviously. I'd put them at 8th right now behind (in no specific order) Liverpool, Manchester City, Tottenham, Chelsea, Manchester United, Leicester, and Wolverhampton.

 

[AB13]

What do you defines as competence and experience?

Listen even if you like many others don't think I know anything about football, because this is something I have been watching closely.

The football Arsenal are playing is based on strict positioning in Artetas offensive 235 with no room for fluidity or positional interchanges. Anyone who understood the most basic principle in offensive football coaching an let the players be loose up top instead of having to stick to strict positioning without freedom to move in possession would have so much better results. Not being restrictive, and relying on natural dynamics and freedom would make us so, so much better.

"Just go out and express yourself" is actually a good philosophy to have offensively. Not being restrictive, finding the balance and just relying on natural dynamics is often more effective than playing a "system", when you have the ball.

Pressing is another huge issue. We are a possession based team that don't counterpress when we lose the ball, so we can't sustain pressure on the opponent. A big part of breaking teams down is sustained pressure. Arsenal don't sustain pressure on the opposition because of their structural issues pressing-wise.

Anyone who understood these extremely basic, easy principles of football would be a huge improvement. There is nothing to suggest Arteta is good, he has made us worse in almost every stat compared to Emery who also was underhelming. This guy has never coached anyone. At some point can we start looking at actual, concrete performances and decisions rather than wishcasting? On what basis can be optimistic about him? It's entirely projection.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Which players from Leicester are top 4 quality if we assume the top for is City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Spurs? Pereira could start for all besides Liverpool. Vardy would start for Chelsea but not the others. Soyuncu starts for Spurs and Chelsea. Ndidi for maybe for Spurs and City but not sure about that. Otherwise no one else really comes close to starting for any of those teams.

Leicester have also had incredible, unsustainable refereeing bias for two seasons now that has given them about 15 extra points. They have had 8 penalties this season, none of them clearly worthy of a penalty.

Vardy, Barnes, Maddison, Soyuncu, Schmeichel, Ndidi, Pereira, Tielemens are all players that would fit in any top 6 team. Castagne, Fofana, and Under also look like they are top 6 quality players as well, but I need more sample size for them.

 

[Gecklund]

Yeah, totally unreasonable to say Arsenal have close to a top 6 squad, I am so clueless. They are all mid-table players, sure.

Funny how you didn’t say that. You said anyone who says they ARENT a top 6 squad are ignorant and lack football knowledge. You didn’t say they are CLOSE you said they ARE. Which they aren’t. I’d easily take City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, United, and Leicester over them. Then I’d probably take Wolves, Everton over them and then that’s where they are for me if their players are in average form. In current form, I’d take Southampton, West Ham, Aston Villa over them. They’re around 7-12.

 

[AB13]

Funny how you didn’t say that. You said anyone who says they ARENT a top 6 squad are ignorant and lack football knowledge. You didn’t say they are CLOSE you said they ARE. Which they aren’t. I’d easily take City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, United, and Leicester over them. Then I’d probably take Wolves, Everton over them and then that’s where they are for me if their players are in average form. In current form, I’d take Southampton, West Ham, Aston Villa over them. They’re around 7-12.

If anyone says Arsenal doesn't have close to a top 6 quality squad they are ignorant and lack an understanding of the sport. That is what I said. I said the word "close". They are close to a top 6 quality squad. You would only take Wolves, Everton, Southampton, West Ham and Villa over them because the players are not playing to nearly the same level they have anywhere else because of a sunday league manager with no experience anywhere else.

 

[Gecklund]

If anyone says Arsenal doesn't have close to a top 6 quality squad they are ignorant and lack an understanding of the sport. That is what I said. I said the word "close". They are close to a top 6 quality squad. You would only take Wolves, Everton, Southampton, West Ham and Villa over them because the players are not playing to nearly the same level they have anywhere else because of a sunday league manager with no experience anywhere else.

How many coaches do they have to go through before you realize it’s the team and not the manager?

 

[AB13]

Vardy, Barnes, Maddison, Soyuncu, Schmeichel, Ndidi, Pereira, Tielemens are all players that would fit in any top 6 team. Castagne, Fofana, and Under also look like they are top 6 quality players as well, but I need more sample size for them.

When judging the genuine quality of a player against how good coaching makes them look, you need to take into account their performances under different managers. None of these players besides Vardy and Schmeichel really have been top 6 quality under anyone not named Brendan Rodgers. Only the very young prospects like Fofana are excluded from this.

 

[AB13]

How many coaches do they have to go through before you realize it’s the team and not the manager?

More than two managers who don't understand simple offensive coaching principles and don't let the players play freely. Emery is not a good coach for a big job, failed miserably at PSG ( Mbappe scored 13 goals in his offensive system). Arteta has never coached before. The players still there from Wingers time looked much better under him, and all players to have played under Emery have regressed under Arteta. Not exaggerating.

 

[Blender]

When judging the genuine quality of a player against how good coaching makes them look, you need to take into account their performances under different managers. None of these players besides Vardy and Schmeichel really have been top 6 quality under anyone not named Brendan Rodgers. Only the very young prospects like Fofana are excluded from this.

Tielemans used to be one of the highest rated young players in the world. He had some ups and downs at Monaco, but has put it all together at Leicester. Ndidi was good at Genk before Leicester bought him, and has been outstanding at Leicester under multiple managers. Barnes is only 22 so only had limited appearances a few years ago, but he was good but obviously broke out under Rodgers. Soyuncu was good at Freiburg as a 20-21 year old, it's why Leicester bought him and he's been great. Ricardo Pereira has been a good player for years, no idea why you think he hasn't. Maddison was considered a top young player at Norwich and has continued his great performances at Leicester with multiple managers.

Your ignorance of these players and that team in general is quite telling.

 

[cgf]

It's hard to blame Arteta for not having a superstar like Max Kruse pulling the strings for him.

 

[cgf]

Tielemans used to be one of the highest rated young players in the world. He had some ups and downs at Monaco, but has put it all together at Leicester. Ndidi was good at Genk before Leicester bought him, and has been outstanding at Leicester under multiple managers. Barnes is only 22 so only had limited appearances a few years ago, but he was good but obviously broke out under Rodgers. Soyuncu was good at Freiburg as a 20-21 year old, it's why Leicester bought him and he's been great. Ricardo Pereira has been a good player for years, no idea why you think he hasn't. Maddison was considered a top young player at Norwich and has continued his great performances at Leicester with multiple managers.

Your ignorance of these players and that team in general is quite telling.

I'm still bummed we couldn't convince Soyuncu to play for Germany as a Freiburg youth. Would've been perfect to hold things down until L.L. Mai is ready.

 

[YNWA14]

When judging the genuine quality of a player against how good coaching makes them look, you need to take into account their performances under different managers. None of these players besides Vardy and Schmeichel really have been top 6 quality under anyone not named Brendan Rodgers. Only the very young prospects like Fofana are excluded from this.

How many of them have had big roles on a top 6 team not under Brendan Rodgers? Or even had significant chances in the top flight at that? How can you discredit their quality by attributing it only to Rodgers when a lot of these players have really only had opportunity under him in the first place? Most of their team is under 25 outside of those two you mentioned. I think, like most people here, that you are overvaluing in the individual talent on Arsenal. There's managerial issues, maybe, but it hasn't just been one manager and the players look beyond just having issues with a tactical approach.

 

[Gecklund]

More than two managers who don't understand simple offensive coaching principles and don't let the players play freely. Emery is not a good coach for a big job, failed miserably at PSG ( Mbappe scored 13 goals in his offensive system). Arteta has never coached before. The players still there from Wingers time looked much better under him, and all players to have played under Emery have regressed under Arteta. Not exaggerating.

maybe it’s that Wenger was a great coach and that he set up players to succeed and got the best out of them while the other two have entirely different systems and now you have a Frankenstein’s monster team. Maybe you should give it more time and support the manager in getting players that fit his system. What players did Arsenal/Arteta bring in this season? Was there anyone other than Gabriel and Partey? Which are two of like 3-4 players that are playing up to their potential? Gabriel and Partey (sample size issue with the latter).

 

[The Abusement Park]

When judging the genuine quality of a player against how good coaching makes them look, you need to take into account their performances under different managers. None of these players besides Vardy and Schmeichel really have been top 6 quality under anyone not named Brendan Rodgers. Only the very young prospects like Fofana are excluded from this.

Why? A manager definitely has an affect on how they play but in the end if a player is good enough the quality will show up. All those players have a long enough track record to show their very good players. I mean Tielemans at one point was the arguable best young player in the world at one point. Ricardo Pereira was the starting RB at Porto and Nice and one of the better found RB’s in the world. I mean it’s not like it’s a bunch of randoms that became elite, except for Vardy really.

 

[Blender]

How many of them have had big roles on a top 6 team not under Brendan Rodgers? Or even had significant chances in the top flight at that? How can you discredit their quality by attributing it only to Rodgers when a lot of these players have really only had opportunity under him in the first place? Most of their team is under 25 outside of those two you mentioned.

Apparently buying young players and developing them into higher end talent is not a known thing.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Arsenal don't have a particularly good squad. But it is not much worse than Leicester as a biased Chelsea fan thinks.

Nice to see you admit that it is on par with Leicester.

I hereby exclude Arsenal from the top six, and from now on reference it as the top five.

 

[AB13]

Tielemans used to be one of the highest rated young players in the world. He had some ups and downs at Monaco, but has put it all together at Leicester. Ndidi was good at Genk before Leicester bought him, and has been outstanding at Leicester under multiple managers. Barnes is only 22 so only had limited appearances a few years ago, but he was good but obviously broke out under Rodgers. Soyuncu was good at Freiburg as a 20-21 year old, it's why Leicester bought him and he's been great. Ricardo Pereira has been a good player for years, no idea why you think he hasn't. Maddison was considered a top young player at Norwich and has continued his great performances at Leicester with multiple managers.

Your ignorance of these players and that team in general is quite telling.

Well, compared to the Arsenal players, this is nothing, which makes me think Arsenals struggles are hugely management related. Not saying the Arsenal players have higher ability now, but this is something interesting to think about. Xhaka was a supertalent at Gladbach ( on par with Tielemans, Xhaka went for 40 million). Torreira a top class Serie A midfielder who starred at the World Cup and had top teams chasing him ( more than Ndidi). Lacazette was one of the most prolific strikers in the world before Emery / Arteta got their hands on him. Pepe had 33 goal contributions in the 2018-2019 Ligue 1 season, the second most after Mbappe that season. Willian had a good season last year before becoming one of the worst in the league under Arteta. Tierney had a huge reputation in Scotland. Mustafi and Saliba were considered great young defenders before signing. Bellerin was a top class player before Emery came.

 

[AB13]

Great.

I hereby exclude Arsenal from the top six, and from now on reference it as the top five.

Arsenal have more top 6 finishes than any club bar Liverpool. I can't take you joking about us, so I feel I have to point that out

 

[Blender]

Why? A manager definitely has an affect on how they play but in the end if a player is good enough the quality will show up. All those players have a long enough track record to show their very good players. I mean Tielemans at one point was the arguable best young player in the world at one point. Ricardo Pereira was the starting RB at Porto and Nice and one of the better found RB’s in the world. I mean it’s not like it’s a bunch of randoms that became elite, except for Vardy really.

The Ricardo Pereira one is the most baffling. He was considered an excellent player when they bought him, and proceeded to be excellent as expected. Not top 6 quality though.

 

[AB13]

Why? A manager definitely has an affect on how they play but in the end if a player is good enough the quality will show up. All those players have a long enough track record to show their very good players. I mean Tielemans at one point was the arguable best young player in the world at one point. Ricardo Pereira was the starting RB at Porto and Nice and one of the better found RB’s in the world. I mean it’s not like it’s a bunch of randoms that became elite, except for Vardy really.

Well, quality will shine through under managers that don't play a restrictive system and overcomplicate things tactically, but Arteta and Emery do just that. When players can't move besides the set position they have been given at all, and have to stand in one spot in possession, there is no room for individual brilliance.

Pereira was not better than the current top 6 fullbacks before signing. Obviously, Leicester have developed players so my model of judging talent is flawed, but I have a point.