Winnipeg Jets Prospect Thread (Part XI)

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think that might not be the case, and here is why.
There are more kids playing hockey so the competition for spots is always increasing. The players that they are talking about moving up have logged 3 years, it's a natural progression for them to need to take that next step.
There will be players to fill those bottom roles anyway as everyone shifts up.
I don't buy the suffering bit. For the top end players Jr is just a pit stop anyway, and for the players that are getting serious looks in their 9 games but are sent back down, it would be for their benefit as well as the NHL's to have them learning the pro game.
I could see it hurting the league if all the teams pulled their first rounders, but I doubt that would happen.
Anyway, since the Nhl has little desire to do this, the point is rather moot.

Where do you get that there are more kids playing hockey? You are removing from the top not the bottom. You would be taking the BEST players out of the CHL. The quality of competition for ALL the rest would be reduced. The kids get better by playing against better competition. Whatever is allowed to be done would be done. If the criteria was set at 1st rounders then ALL 1st rounders would be pulled. That part is human nature. ALL of the CHL's stars would be playing in the AHL. Without its star players the CHL deteriorates. It is a very slippery slope that you just don't want to start going down.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Where do you get that there are more kids playing hockey? You are removing from the top not the bottom. You would be taking the BEST players out of the CHL. The quality of competition for ALL the rest would be reduced. The kids get better by playing against better competition. Whatever is allowed to be done would be done. If the criteria was set at 1st rounders then ALL 1st rounders would be pulled. That part is human nature. ALL of the CHL's stars would be playing in the AHL. Without its star players the CHL deteriorates. It is a very slippery slope that you just don't want to start going down.

9 players out of 60+ teams. Did you read the article? Do you honestly think taking out 9 players from the CHL is going to kill it? That's if teams even do take FULL advantage of it.

The idea of the CHL as a "top developmental league" is not changing. The top picks are still going there. And the CHL actually does it's job more effectively since it's a developmental league by allowing development to continue. Junior fans are still going to be going to games since the idea of the junior stars of tommorrow is not changing. A very limited amount of players taken out of CHL is not going to affect level of play.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

9 players out of 60+ teams. Did you read the article? Do you honestly think taking out 9 players from the CHL is going to kill it? That's if teams even do take FULL advantage of it.

The idea of the CHL as a "top developmental league" is not changing. The top picks are still going there. And the CHL actually does it's job more effectively since it's a developmental league by allowing development to continue. Junior fans are still going to be going to games since the idea of the junior stars of tommorrow is not changing. A very limited amount of players taken out of CHL is not going to affect level of play.

How are you proposing to structure the rule that will allow it? However it is structured I would bet real money that it will be taken full advantage of. That is always the case in anything that humans are involved in. Always. The players taken out being the best players, I disagree that it will not affect the level of play.

 

[Sweech]

The CHL would adapt. All similar leagues adapt when rules of that nature change.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Ouch

 

[Sweech]

We should draft Meier now as Ehlers protection.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

How are you proposing to structure the rule that will allow it? However it is structured I would bet real money that it will be taken full advantage of. That is always the case in anything that humans are involved in. Always. The players taken out being the best players, I disagree that it will not affect the level of play.

It was in the article. Only first round picks and only players who have completed 3 years of junior hockey. Morrissey was one of just 9 eligible players (Ehlers for example was not eligible nor would he be next year). In fact at times would help CHL since players needed that 3 years of junior. A player like Drouin was deemed ineligible due to having only 2.5 years. In that case teams must think about whether they REALLY want to keep a player for a .5 season at 18 as that would eliminate his AHL status at 19.

Your acting like this would be some kind of "cheat" that corrupt people will use. Well no, teams will still have decisions to make on whether the player is AHL ready. If it was that simply teams would just keep all the 18 year olds in NHL by that logic that it would "taken full advantage of due to human nature".

The best players are already being taken out. This is just taking a like 5-10 more per season. At most. It's not going to effect the level of play at all. It would help all players to keep development moving.

 

[Huffer]

I like the thought of allowing some CHL players at 19 to play in the AHL, and I think Button has some very good points here.

Really, with the need to play three years thing and be a 1st round pick, only 9 guys met that criteria. Sure those are all top players, but that's not going to cripple the league.

Any chance that CHL may be somewhat ok to looking into this because as the system is now, players drafted from the NCAA or Europe can go directly into the NHL. Are they worried at all, that in the future, elite potential CHL players may decide to go to a different league so that should they be good enough later on down the road, they could play in the AHL earlier?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It was in the article. Only first round picks and only players who have completed 3 years of junior hockey. Morrissey was one of just 9 eligible players (Ehlers for example was not eligible nor would he be next year). In fact at times would help CHL since players needed that 3 years of junior. A player like Drouin was deemed ineligible due to having only 2.5 years. In that case teams must think about whether they REALLY want to keep a player for a .5 season at 18 as that would eliminate his AHL status at 19.

Your acting like this would be some kind of "cheat" that corrupt people will use. Well no, teams will still have decisions to make on whether the player is AHL ready. If it was that simply teams would just keep all the 18 year olds in NHL by that logic that it would "taken full advantage of due to human nature".

The best players are already being taken out. This is just taking a like 5-10 more per season. At most. It's not going to effect the level of play at all. It would help all players to keep development moving.

Now that is putting words in my mouth.

I am old enough to remember all these agreements being worked out for the first time. It was an awful wrangle that dragged on and on. I'm too old to be able to remember all the details. The legal implications were huge and complicated. It took years to work out this framework. You can't tinker with it without re-opening the whole can of worms. The NHL was involved, the 3 Major Junior leagues were involved, the players were involved, US and Canadian anti-trust law was involved. I don't even remember if the CHL even existed in the beginning but it was very complicated. That's why there is no interest from any of the parties to make substantial changes. The existing agreement is mutually beneficial for all parties. That does not mean it is perfect. What is?

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Now that is putting words in my mouth.

I am old enough to remember all these agreements being worked out for the first time. It was an awful wrangle that dragged on and on. I'm too old to be able to remember all the details. The legal implications were huge and complicated. It took years to work out this framework. You can't tinker with it without re-opening the whole can of worms. The NHL was involved, the 3 Major Junior leagues were involved, the players were involved, US and Canadian anti-trust law was involved. I don't even remember if the CHL even existed in the beginning but it was very complicated. That's why there is no interest from any of the parties to make substantial changes. The existing agreement is mutually beneficial for all parties. That does not mean it is perfect. What is?

I get that it's complicated and it's not at the top of the NHL's priority list so it's not going to happen. However the attitude in the last sentences is depressing to me. So right now I am making 5$ which is fine so I shouldn't try to make more? Nothing is perfect that doesn't mean you don't try to improve it all the time.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I like the thought of allowing some CHL players at 19 to play in the AHL, and I think Button has some very good points here.

Really, with the need to play three years thing and be a 1st round pick, only 9 guys met that criteria. Sure those are all top players, but that's not going to cripple the league.

Any chance that CHL may be somewhat ok to looking into this because as the system is now, players drafted from the NCAA or Europe can go directly into the NHL. Are they worried at all, that in the future, elite potential CHL players may decide to go to a different league so that should they be good enough later on down the road, they could play in the AHL earlier?

The story does not say that only 9 meet the criteria. It picked 9 that do and pointed out 1 that does not, Drouin.
"Here are nine CHLers – including current NHLers Horvat, Lazar and Reinhart - who would be candidates to play in the AHL this season if rules were amended to permit first round draft picks with three full seasons experience to play in the top minor pro league." It does not say that they are the only 9.

It appears to me that a few others would qualify, Ekblad, Perlini (maybe), DeAngelo. I don't know if that number would be typical or not. It is quite a lot fewer than I would have expected but the CHL is not going to agree to this anyway. Their attitude always was that if he is too good for the CHL he is good enough for the NHL. They fought to have no players allowed to go to the NHL the season following their draft. They only accepted it reluctantly. IIRC it was because refusing to allow any would have been seen by the courts as infringing on the rights of the players. Or at least that was the fear. It had not been a problem when the age of majority was 21. The potential problem arose when that was lowered to 18. At least that is how I remember it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I like the thought of allowing some CHL players at 19 to play in the AHL, and I think Button has some very good points here.

Really, with the need to play three years thing and be a 1st round pick, only 9 guys met that criteria. Sure those are all top players, but that's not going to cripple the league.

Any chance that CHL may be somewhat ok to looking into this because as the system is now, players drafted from the NCAA or Europe can go directly into the NHL. Are they worried at all, that in the future, elite potential CHL players may decide to go to a different league so that should they be good enough later on down the road, they could play in the AHL earlier?

I get that it's complicated and it's not at the top of the NHL's priority list so it's not going to happen. However the attitude in the last sentences is depressing to me. So right now I am making 5$ which is fine so I shouldn't try to make more? Nothing is perfect that doesn't mean you don't try to improve it all the time.

I agree that you can always try to improve, well everything. The existing framework was hashed out ~45 years ago. Things change, times change. Huffer brings up a POV that didn't exist then. The NCAA and the rest of the world contributed so few NHL players that competition in player development did not exist in any meaningful way. Those players were not even subject to the draft. They could be signed as FAs by anyone who wanted them. Not many were signed because all of the good players were in the CHL. As virtually the only source of NHL players the CHL was in a much stronger position than it is today. What was perceived as a huge detriment to them then could be spun into an actual advantage today. So maybe some change becomes possible when the existing agreement expires in 2020.

 

[Huffer]

The story does not say that only 9 meet the criteria. It picked 9 that do and pointed out 1 that does not, Drouin.
"Here are nine CHLers – including current NHLers Horvat, Lazar and Reinhart - who would be candidates to play in the AHL this season if rules were amended to permit first round draft picks with three full seasons experience to play in the top minor pro league." It does not say that they are the only 9.

It appears to me that a few others would qualify, Ekblad, Perlini (maybe), DeAngelo. I don't know if that number would be typical or not. It is quite a lot fewer than I would have expected but the CHL is not going to agree to this anyway. Their attitude always was that if he is too good for the CHL he is good enough for the NHL. They fought to have no players allowed to go to the NHL the season following their draft. They only accepted it reluctantly. IIRC it was because refusing to allow any would have been seen by the courts as infringing on the rights of the players. Or at least that was the fear. It had not been a problem when the age of majority was 21. The potential problem arose when that was lowered to 18. At least that is how I remember it.

Good point, Reading quickly I misunderstood it to being 9 that qualified. Still, I don't think there would be enough to qualify each year to seriously cripple the CHL.

 

[Snot Rocket]

Where do you get that there are more kids playing hockey? You are removing from the top not the bottom. You would be taking the BEST players out of the CHL. The quality of competition for ALL the rest would be reduced. The kids get better by playing against better competition. Whatever is allowed to be done would be done. If the criteria was set at 1st rounders then ALL 1st rounders would be pulled. That part is human nature. ALL of the CHL's stars would be playing in the AHL. Without its star players the CHL deteriorates. It is a very slippery slope that you just don't want to start going down.

Population increase. Right now hockey enrollment is down, but I would suspect that it is cyclical. Plus there are a lot of joystick/controller athletes now a days, it will come around.
They are not going to loot all the first round players either, obviously there would have to be a detailed in depth agreement that works for both parties, however we could also argue your same argument for the looting of all teams when the league yet expands by 1-3 teams, the competition is going to degrade right?

Plus getting these young men into the pro side also lets the team have an extended look and see if they are ready, if they are then we can move other players that seem to be plugs back down to the farm. I am sure you can think of a couple on the Jets side that you'd love to send down in favour of one of our Jr Prospects if they could show the can play the pro game for say a couple months.

But as I said, the league is not looking at it and there seems to not be a demand to look deeper into it, so the point is rather moot. We are arguing hypothetical points and until the league makes it known they are exploring this idea, we can go back and forth until we are blue in the face.

Don't get me wrong, I understand your concerns and they are valid, however I disagree with your projected impact. I do think it would make the CHL stronger and deeper in the end as well.


Cheers!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Population increase. Right now hockey enrollment is down, but I would suspect that it is cyclical. Plus there are a lot of joystick/controller athletes now a days, it will come around.
They are not going to loot all the first round players either, obviously there would have to be a detailed in depth agreement that works for both parties, however we could also argue your same argument for the looting of all teams when the league yet expands by 1-3 teams, the competition is going to degrade right?

Plus getting these young men into the pro side also lets the team have an extended look and see if they are ready, if they are then we can move other players that seem to be plugs back down to the farm. I am sure you can think of a couple on the Jets side that you'd love to send down in favour of one of our Jr Prospects if they could show the can play the pro game for say a couple months.

But as I said, the league is not looking at it and there seems to not be a demand to look deeper into it, so the point is rather moot. We are arguing hypothetical points and until the league makes it known they are exploring this idea, we can go back and forth until we are blue in the face.

Don't get me wrong, I understand your concerns and they are valid, however I disagree with your projected impact. I do think it would make the CHL stronger and deeper in the end as well.


Cheers!

I don't think it is my personal projection of the impact. In fact I don't think it would be all that great but I'm certain that the CHL would see the impact as huge. I don't see an argument for it benefiting the CHL. What mechanism are you thinking of that could in any way make them stronger OR deeper? How can they be better by losing more of their star players?

 

[Aavco Cup]

Morissey will have a new head coach

http://raiderhockey.com/article/raiders-relieve-cory-clouston-as-head-coach

 

[truck]

Morissey will have a new head coach

http://raiderhockey.com/article/raiders-relieve-cory-clouston-as-head-coach

And he may be traded soon

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/j...fired-by-prince-albert-raiders-172518749.html

 

[McDrailers]

And he may be traded soon

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/j...fired-by-prince-albert-raiders-172518749.html

Question, can Winnipeg kinda influence the raiders to trade him to a team around the peg? I've always wondered how the Oilers draft choices always end up on the Oil kings. Is that seen as tampering or?

 

[Aavco Cup]

Question, can Winnipeg kinda influence the raiders to trade him to a team around the peg? I've always wondered how the Oilers draft choices always end up on the Oil kings. Is that seen as tampering or?

The only team close to Winnipeg is the Wheat Kings. They are a contender. I don't know a lot about their roster but they list 7 LHD and 1RHD. Not sure if adding Morrissey would be a priority or a fit for Brandon.

 

[ps241]

And he may be traded soon

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/j...OTE]B][B]prince-albert-raiders-172518749.html
Sources tell BTN the Clouston firing won’t be the only big news to come out of Prince Albert before Christmas. The Raiders intend on trading Morrissey before he heads off to the world junior championship.[/B][/B]

makes sense.

 

[Atoyot]

Something positive to note: Telegin has played over 16 minutes in each of CSKA's last 2 games. He didn't get any points but he got 5 shots in the first game and 2 in the other. Nice to see he's getting a chance!

EDIT: Also Kraskovsky is second on his team in points with 19 in 22GP. He leads his team with 65 SOG, but has the lowest shooting percentage among forwards at 6.2%. Based on those numbers you kind of get the feeling that he should have a few more points.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Something positive to note: Telegin has played over 16 minutes in each of CSKA's last 2 games. He didn't get any points but he got 5 shots in the first game and 2 in the other. Nice to see he's getting a chance!

EDIT: Also Kraskovsky is second on his team in points with 19 in 22GP. He leads his team with 65 SOG, but has the lowest shooting percentage among forwards at 6.2%. Based on those numbers you kind of get the feeling that he should have a few more points.

Based on those numbers he should fit right in on the Jets top line!

 

[truck]

Kostalek 1A already

5 game point streak

 

[Jet]

Ouch

Haha my friend was at the game -- he knows I'm a Jet fan so he texted me to describe that when it happened. Very accurate account, with a lot of expletives in there for colour!

Good to see Nik seems to be pretty rugged.

 

[Atoyot]

Phillips stops 28 of 29, Kasdorf 24 of 25, Franklin 2A.