Winnipeg Jets Hockey Operations

[blues10]

Time for a bump. Always worth a read and discussion considering where the franchise currently sits after 10+ years.

 

[rkp]

one would have thought brian little could be a fit somewhere in this club....

 

[blues10]

I have thought for years that that Jets have far too much inward thinking and not enough eyes on the state of the operation.

Keeping Maurice well past his expiry date appears to have set this franchise back in many ways. A difficult market may have become more difficult especially when not winning.

I am not proposing a top heavy management team but creating a single position in management to support/ positivly challenge, Chevy - Executive Vice President & General Manager and Zinger - Sr. Vice President & Director, Hockey Ops / Asst. General Mgr - also provide feedback to Mark Chipman - the Executive Chairman of the Board of True North Sports + Entertainment and Winnipeg Jets Hockey Club.

Some recent comments from Chevy really stood out for the need for some other eyes and ears around the hockey club. Chevy mentioned how much he gained from interviewing head coaching candiates and the way the team could look on the ice from their view.

Creating a "revolving" position for a hockey person to come in and give "sober" advice would be my initial idea. Create a position for a 3 or 4 year contract with no renewal. This way it avoids the group think /comfort that may have creeped into the organization.

I just believe we simply don't have enough ideas in the organization and get far too locked in our ways.

 

[surixon]

I have thought for years that that Jets have far too much inward thinking and not enough eyes on the state of the operation.

Keeping Maurice well past his expiry date appears to have set this franchise back in many ways. A difficult market may have become more difficult especially when not winning.

I am not proposing a top heavy management team but creating a single position in management to support/ positivly challenge, Chevy - Executive Vice President & General Manager and Zinger - Sr. Vice President & Director, Hockey Ops / Asst. General Mgr - also provide feedback to Mark Chipman - the Executive Chairman of the Board of True North Sports + Entertainment and Winnipeg Jets Hockey Club.

Some recent comments from Chevy really stood out for the need for some other eyes and ears around the hockey club. Chevy mentioned how much he gained from interviewing head coaching candiates and the way the team could look on the ice from their view.

Creating a "revolving" position for a hockey person to come in and give "sober" advice would be my initial idea. Create a position for a 3 or 4 year contract with no renewal. This way it avoids the group think /comfort that may have creeped into the organization.

I just believe we simply don't have enough ideas in the organization and get far too locked in our ways.

Good idea. I have long thought we need to follow suit and create an assistant to the GM position and get a star caliber player in there like Montreal with Lecavier, the Ducks with Niedermyer, Canucks with the Sedins etc. I find the org has too much of a blue collar mentality at times (not surprising given the entirety of our hockey opps is made up by grinders and role players) We need a high end talent perspective in the room.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Keeping Maurice well past his expiry date appears to have set this franchise back in many ways. A difficult market may have become more difficult especially when not winning.

I am not proposing a top heavy management team but creating a single position in management to support/ positivly challenge, Chevy - Executive Vice President & General Manager and Zinger - Sr. Vice President & Director, Hockey Ops / Asst. General Mgr - also provide feedback to Mark Chipman - the Executive Chairman of the Board of True North Sports + Entertainment and Winnipeg Jets Hockey Club.

Some recent comments from Chevy really stood out for the need for some other eyes and ears around the hockey club. Chevy mentioned how much he gained from interviewing head coaching candiates and the way the team could look on the ice from their view.

Creating a "revolving" position for a hockey person to come in and give "sober" advice would be my initial idea. Create a position for a 3 or 4 year contract with no renewal. This way it avoids the group think /comfort that may have creeped into the organization.

I just believe we simply don't have enough ideas in the organization and get far too locked in our ways.

Good idea. I have long thought we need to follow suit and create an assistant to the GM position and get a star caliber player in there like Montreal with Lecavier, the Ducks with Niedermyer, Canucks with the Sedins etc. I find the org has too much of a blue collar mentality at times (not surprising given the entirety of our hockey opps is made up by grinders and role players) We need a high end talent perspective in the room.

Agree emphatically. We heard for years how "tight" the management group + Maurice was and have heard since from beat writers like Murat that the org has long been very consistent in some of its strong preferences concerning player types and deployment, like a top/ bottom 6, despite most of the league having moved away from that.

Trotz might have been that new broom. As @surixon suggests, a high-skill former player might bring a necessary outside perspective capable of querying some of the less progressive thinking and strategy, and have the respect in the room to make those opinions stick.

Bryan Little? Toby E? Who?

 

[puck stoppa]

Agree emphatically. We heard for years how "tight" the management group + Maurice was and have heard since from beat writers like Murat that the org has long been very consistent in some of its strong preferences concerning player types and deployment, like a top/ bottom 6, despite most of the league having moved away from that.

Trotz might have been that new broom. As @surixon suggests, a high-skill former player might bring a necessary outside perspective capable of querying some of the less progressive thinking and strategy, and have the respect in the room to make those opinions stick.

Bryan Little? Toby E? Who?

Little would be awesome. A pros pro. Career cut short. He may not be interested but he'd be #1.
Buff should get Jimmy Roy's old job of picking up the prospects at the airport and then taking them to Earls.

 

[voyageur]

Agree emphatically. We heard for years how "tight" the management group + Maurice was and have heard since from beat writers like Murat that the org has long been very consistent in some of its strong preferences concerning player types and deployment, like a top/ bottom 6, despite most of the league having moved away from that.

Trotz might have been that new broom. As @surixon suggests, a high-skill former player might bring a necessary outside perspective capable of querying some of the less progressive thinking and strategy, and have the respect in the room to make those opinions stick.

Bryan Little? Toby E? Who?

Bah. I'll take Adam Lowry against your skill guys, and Adam Lowry will outmuscle them on the puck, and turn it the other way.

If anything the Jets problem is that the skill guys don't show up for the playoffs, it's the big guys, especially Scheifele, who 75% of posters on this board wanted to run out of town for pretty boy Dubois, who come through. Because to win in the playoffs you need some of that grit that Tampa went out and got, with guys who can play on the big stage.

I don't mind that we have our Moose guys in the Front Office. We're the only team in the NHL that graduated from the AHL, as an organization. So there's no Oilers dynasty or Cam Neelys or Yzerman, Sakic, etc. Jets finally turned back to their 1.0 roots and there's still an unhappy lot.

 

[surixon]

Bah. I'll take Adam Lowry against your skill guys, and Adam Lowry will outmuscle them on the puck, and turn it the other way.

If anything the Jets problem is that the skill guys don't show up for the playoffs, it's the big guys, especially Scheifele, who 75% of posters on this board wanted to run out of town for pretty boy Dubois, who come through. Because to win in the playoffs you need some of that grit that Tampa went out and got, with guys who can play on the big stage.

I don't mind that we have our Moose guys in the Front Office. We're the only team in the NHL that graduated from the AHL, as an organization. So there's no Oilers dynasty or Cam Neelys or Yzerman, Sakic, etc. Jets finally turned back to their 1.0 roots and there's still an unhappy lot.

You need both viewpoints. If all you have is the hard work and grit view point then that is going to really impact your way of thinking. It needs to be balanced by the views of players and people who see the game differently. How do the elite skilled athletes see it, see the team issues and what are their ways of fixing things etc. The more diverse your decision making group the more optimal the decisions will be.

It shouldn't be lost on anyone that Chevy learned a lot when talking with many different coaches. Our management group has been the same for a decade and likely needs outside help with regards to new ideas and ways of thinking.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

You need both viewpoints. If all you have is the hard work and grit view point then that is going to really impact your way of thinking. It needs to be balanced by the views of players and people who see the game differently. How do the elite skilled athletes see it, see the team issues and what are their ways of fixing things etc. The more diverse your decision making group the more optimal the decisions will be.

It shouldn't be lost on anyone that Chevy learned a lot when talking with many different coaches. Our management group has been the same for a decade and likely needs outside help with regards to new ideas and ways of thinking.

Did Chevy really learn a lot? I spent a lot of years in a managerial position and I've heard that talk before. Often after some "empowering and energizing" leadership seminar full of brainstorming breakout sessions and flip charts covered in sticky notes that basically wasted an entire day of people's time. Systemic inertia quickly returns people to the same old, same old.

 

[surixon]

Did Chevy really learn a lot? I spent a lot of years in a managerial position and I've heard that talk before. Often after some "empowering and energizing" leadership seminar full of brainstorming breakout sessions and flip charts covered in sticky notes that basically wasted an entire day of people's time. Systemic inertia quickly returns people to the same old, same old.

Well that is a different question entirely. Does he act/incorporate what he learned or does he sink back into his normal way of thinking/routine. I guess we will see come this fall but I'd wager it's more likely with who he's surrounded with that status quo thinking will prevail.

It's why they need to permanently bring in more and different thinkers into that group.

 

[surixon]

Agree emphatically. We heard for years how "tight" the management group + Maurice was and have heard since from beat writers like Murat that the org has long been very consistent in some of its strong preferences concerning player types and deployment, like a top/ bottom 6, despite most of the league having moved away from that.

Trotz might have been that new broom. As @surixon suggests, a high-skill former player might bring a necessary outside perspective capable of querying some of the less progressive thinking and strategy, and have the respect in the room to make those opinions stick.

Bryan Little? Toby E? Who?

Little would be a great add I think. Understands spacing well and the importance of good two way hockey.

 

[kenobiwan]

I think first step is have Chipman removed from all hockey related decisions including coaches and players. I’m not Chevys biggest fan but I think Chipman has been handicapping him into things like keeping Maurice and extending Wheezer.
Keeping Maurice for 4 years too long is what killed the jets locker room. His pets 26 & 55 were never held accountable, given everything g they wanted, and turned the room against them. Can’t wait to see them gone at any cost before Connor and Ehlers say they’ve had enough too

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I think first step is have Chipman removed from all hockey related decisions including coaches and players. I’m not Chevys biggest fan but I think Chipman has been handicapping him into things like keeping Maurice and extending Wheezer.
Keeping Maurice for 4 years too long is what killed the jets locker room. His pets 26 & 55 were never held accountable, given everything g they wanted, and turned the room against them. Can’t wait to see them gone at any cost before Connor and Ehlers say they’ve had enough too

And who exactly will be removing the owner from the decision making process?

 

[RabidOne]

Well that is a different question entirely. Does he act/incorporate what he learned or does he sink back into his normal way of thinking/routine. I guess we will see come this fall but I'd wager it's more likely with who he's surrounded with that status quo thinking will prevail.

It's why they need to permanently bring in more and different thinkers into that group.

Its been really eye opening to see how many people Rutherford has brought on board in Vancouver. There are going to be a lot of different viewpoints as well as some high profile people in development roles.

 

[TommyKillian]

Little would be a great add I think. Understands spacing well and the importance of good two way hockey.

I like the idea of Little but (based entirely on interviews and media accounts... which I acknowledge is not great evidence) he seems a little too soft spoken for this kind of role. Would he just be a yes man? They need someone that will break away from the pack and respectfully take a contrary position when needed. I think Stastny has a great personality for this and obviously a great hockey mind. Even a guy like Ron Hainsey, with his NHLPA experience, is probably used to managing personalities and having forceful but respectful conversations with colleagues.

This is a bit more of a wild card move, but could an analytics guy like Murat be a smart add in an executive position that @blues10 suggested? (note, I'm not advocating for Murat specifically). It would need to be someone who adds alternate viewpoints that they would actually take seriously. Not sure a journalist would get the requisite respect from the old boys but you get the idea. I mean an equipment manager gets that respect so who knows?

Sticking with Maurice and an under-performing core for a few years just screams groupthink to me. I really like the idea to further shake that up.

 

[surixon]

I like the idea of Little but (based entirely on interviews and media accounts... which I acknowledge is not great evidence) he seems a little too soft spoken for this kind of role. Would he just be a yes man? They need someone that will break away from the pack and respectfully take a contrary position when needed. I think Stastny has a great personality for this and obviously a great hockey mind. Even a guy like Ron Hainsey, with his NHLPA experience, is probably used to managing personalities and having forceful but respectful conversations with colleagues.

This is a bit more of a wild card move, but could an analytics guy like Murat be a smart add in an executive position that @blues10 suggested? (note, I'm not advocating for Murat specifically). It would need to be someone who adds alternate viewpoints that they would actually take seriously. Not sure a journalist would get the requisite respect from the old boys but you get the idea. I mean an equipment manager gets that respect so who knows?

Sticking with Maurice and an under-performing core for a few years just screams groupthink to me. I really like the idea to further shake that up.

The Jets do already have an Analytics manager but that area could use some additional support.

 

[TommyKillian]

The Jets do already have an Analytics manager but that area could use some additional support.

What I'm saying, is the analytics manager should be in the executive group with Chevy, Zinger, and Simmons. From the perspective of an outsider looking in, I don't get the sense they have been listening to the analytics manager (Matt Prefontaine, right?) too closely the last few years or maybe he just isn't very good) Putting someone in the executive group with that knowledge base would be a strong indication from ownership that analytics ought to be used in guiding the organization forward.

I think that would jolt the groupthink as much as adding adding a guy like Stastny would.

 

[surixon]

What I'm saying, is the analytics manager should be in the executive group with Chevy, Zinger, and Simmons. From the perspective of an outsider looking in, I don't get the sense they have been listening to the analytics manager (Matt Prefontaine, right?) too closely the last few years or maybe he just isn't very good) Putting someone in the executive group with that knowledge base would be a strong indication from ownership that analytics ought to be used in guiding the organization forward.

I think that would jolt the groupthink as much as adding adding a guy like Stastny would.

I guess it depends on what analytics we are talking about. I have heard both Chevy and Simmons are big into them while Heisinger isn't.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I guess it depends on what analytics we are talking about. I have heard both Chevy and Simmons are big into them while Heisinger isn't.

Heisinger is an ex-equipment manager, not a hockey savant. In other words, he should stick to the part of team management he does well, and not butt in when it comes to things beyond his understanding.

 

[TommyKillian]

I guess it depends on what analytics we are talking about. I have heard both Chevy and Simmons are big into them while Heisinger isn't.

Interesting. Where did you read that? I'd love to know which signings and trades were influenced by analytics and what they are using. The publicly available stuff generally doesn't support some of their moves but obviously teams will have better data than the public.

 

[DRW204]

What I'm saying, is the analytics manager should be in the executive group with Chevy, Zinger, and Simmons. From the perspective of an outsider looking in, I don't get the sense they have been listening to the analytics manager (Matt Prefontaine, right?) too closely the last few years or maybe he just isn't very good) Putting someone in the executive group with that knowledge base would be a strong indication from ownership that analytics ought to be used in guiding the organization forward.

I think that would jolt the groupthink as much as adding adding a guy like Stastny would.

this is from Shayna GOdlman a writer from the athletic
this is employees that are known to the public. I think at one point last year WPG had 5 employees in data research or analyst so not sure if there's been a dismissal or omission. this list is from May 2022.

it's one thing to have an analytics department... it's another thing to use it, and then use it to find pertinent info. you can have all the data/stats/info you want, but categorizing, labeling it, making relations etc, and then using it for decisions is a whole other things.

i don't doubt WPG has access to all this info but is there buy-in from the org to be using it? how well is the data being summarized to convey info clearly and precisely? not trying to shit on the employees involved, but these are questions id be wondering as a fan.

Garrett mentioned that this previous SCF was between the longest tenured analytics group (TBL) vs the one that's been most on the come-up (COL), whereby each team has organization buy-in to utilize the resources.

i am not sure if the same could be said about WPG.

 

[surixon]

I guess it depends on what analytics we are talking about. I have heard both Chevy and Simmons are big into them while Heisinger isn't.

this is from Shayna GOdlman a writer from the athletic
this is employees that are known to the public. I think at one point last year WPG had 5 employees in data research or analyst so not sure if there's been a dismissal or omission. this list is from May 2022.

View attachment 571077

it's one thing to have an analytics department... it's another thing to use it, and then use it to find pertinent info. you can have all the data/stats/info you want, but categorizing, labeling it, making relations etc, and then using it for decisions is a whole other things.

i don't doubt WPG has access to all this info but is there buy-in from the org to be using it? how well is the data being summarized to convey info clearly and precisely? not trying to shit on the employees involved, but these are questions id be wondering as a fan.

Garrett mentioned that this previous SCF was between the longest tenured analytics group (TBL) vs the one that's been most on the come-up (COL), whereby each team has organization buy-in to utilize the resource.

i am not sure if the same could be said about WPG.

They had it in 17-18 after doing that analytics deep dive. We were very stingy defensively and the best team driving ovlffensive chances off the cycle. So that was a clear example of using data to drive a system. The issue is they never adapted from that scheme and if anything regressed to a just a full on prevention shell after our d thinned out. We need to get back to doing things like we did in 17-18.

 

[WPGChief]

On analytics personnel: that list from Shayna is outdated with at least one departure that I know of. That being said, I do believe they still partner closely with Sportslogiq and have a few external consultants on one-off projects/research that will never be considered part of their Hockey Ops department, but are there. Nonetheless, I’ve made several arguments before that this area - along with player development - are awfully light for an attempt at being a “world class” organization in the NHL.

 

[surixon]

On analytics personnel: that list from Shayna is outdated with at least one departure that I know of. That being said, I do believe they still partner closely with Sportslogiq and have a few external consultants on one-off projects/research that will never be considered part of their Hockey Ops department, but are there. Nonetheless, I’ve made several arguments before that this area - along with player development - are awfully light for an attempt at being a “world class” organization in the NHL.

I'm curious who all they have in the development side of things outside of Keanin and Roy. I don't think they need to have a full time skating/other coaches but I'd like to hope they have people/agencies with contracts ti provide rose services to prospects that need it.

 

[sting13]

Little would be a great add I think. Understands spacing well and the importance of good two way hockey.

I doubt Little will give up his $10.6 million over the next two years to take a new job.