Winnipeg Jets going into the 24/25 season

[surixon]

That last post triggered me and I forgot to post what I really came on to ask - no GDT for the Youngstars game tn?

Says we play Calgary at 4pm (assuming that is pacific time)

 

[Jet]

Says we play Calgary at 4pm (assuming that is pacific time)

Oh yeah I know when the game is - but I thought we might have a GDT for it. Maybe just a running one for the tourney?

 

[surixon]

Oh yeah I know when the game is - but I thought we might have a GDT for it. Maybe just a running one for the tourney?

Ah I gotcha now, missenterpreted what you were asking.

 

[spiny norman]

I have tickets to the game against the Penguins so I'll finally get to see them in action.

 

[TS Quint]

Where do you get he barely played? In his draft year he played 49 games at the LIIGA level and 15 at the junior level.

Brad Lambert - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Brad Lambert, 2003-12-19 Lahti, FIN Finland. Most recently in the undefined with Manitoba Moose. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Lambert was also a consensus #14 ranking in his draft year, while McGroarty was a consensus #20. He hadn't fallen off the map, We just got lucky he fell to us.

EOTP’s 2022 Consensus NHL Draft Rankings

The 2022 NHL Entry Draft begins on Thursday, and EOTP has been keeping track of most of the rankings to come out ahead of the draft. Some rankings have more correlation to how the draft will unfold…

www.habseyesontheprize.com

Edit: I will add the point, playing in your country's professional league is far and away the most common path for top European players in their draft year. There are pros and cons to playing with men in European pro leagues over playing with peers in leagues like the CHL. I do believe it is a bit of a slippery slope if we just look at development through a NA lens, and negate the high level of hockey played in European pro leagues.

I didn't add the two teams together for that year. My bad.

Where do I get the idea he barely played? Probably Murat Ates who said that again this week on WST. I also read he was the 2C. Is there a site that tracked his actual toi? But if he was a 2C, he wasn't good at it and was getting caved in. That clearly wasn't good for his development.

When you say "consensus" you mean a hypothetical draft board created by people who don't pick the players, which we don't need after he was taken 30th in reality.

Again, just because a development path is right for some there is no one best way to develop a player. A development path needs to start with the needs of a specific player. The European pro league path was clearly not right for Lambert. The fact is that path had him playing poorly with his peers at the WJC and free falling down the draft board. Playing in Finland was breaking him, the Jets put him on a development path that was right for him. My best guess would be that he wouldn't be on the edge of a NHL job today if he was left in Finland.

 

[Flair Hay]

I didn't add the two teams together for that year. My bad.

Where do I get the idea he barely played? Probably Murat Ates who said that again this week on WST. I also read he was the 2C. Is there a site that tracked his actual toi? But if he was a 2C, he wasn't good at it and was getting caved in. That clearly wasn't good for his development.

When you say "consensus" you mean a hypothetical draft board created by people who don't pick the players, which we don't need after he was taken 30th in reality.

Again, just because a development path is right for some there is no one best way to develop a player. A development path needs to start with the needs of a specific player. The European pro league path was clearly not right for Lambert. The fact is that path had him playing poorly with his peers at the WJC and free falling down the draft board. Playing in Finland was breaking him, the Jets put him on a development path that was right for him. My best guess would be that he wouldn't be on the edge of a NHL job today if he was left in Finland.

I agree strongly with the part at the end. Even being on the Moose in D+1 was too much in hindsight. His career got right back on track once he went back to junior to get some confidence back. Kudos for getting him to buy in on the Jets side, and to Brad for having a great attitude about it and making the most of it.

He came a long way in only a year.

 

[Buffdog]

I agree strongly with the part at the end. Even being on the Moose in D+1 was too much in hindsight. His career got right back on track once he went back to junior to get some confidence back. Kudos for getting him to buy in on the Jets side, and to Brad for having a great attitude about it and making the most of it.

He came a long way in only a year.

Hopefully Cole can summon his "inner Brad" and use the adversity that he experienced last season as a young player to catapult himself to the next level

 

[Bob E]

Recent Chevy interview for a Thomas Drance article in the Athletic seems to suggest:

- Chevy seems to like his current group of prospects, Lambert, Yager, Barlow, Salomonsson, Chibrikov, etc.
- Salomonsson will get a decent shot at an NHL roster spot, though I still think the plan is having him with the Moose for most of the year. Coach Arniel (who ran D last year) asked Chevy last year whether they had to send Salomonsson back to Sweden or keep him in NA. Chevy wanted to send him back and let him have a big development year there.
- Ehlers future is very much up in the air. Could be signed to an extension or could be traded. Nothing new, but seems to be a bit less positive around an extension. “Will do what’s best for the Winnipeg Jets”.
- Jets would be interested in resigning Pionk if things go well this season, and said he has played most of a recent season with a broken foot. Team loves his compete.
- Chevy wants to sign Connor to an extension and sees him in the Jets future.

 

[Whileee]

Recent Chevy interview for a Thomas Drance article in the Athletic seems to suggest:

- Chevy seems to like his current group of prospects, Lambert, Yager, Barlow, Salomonsson, Chibrikov, etc.
- Salomonsson will get a decent shot at an NHL roster spot, though I still think the plan is having him with the Moose for most of the year. Coach Arniel (who ran D last year) asked Chevy last year whether they had to send Salomonsson back to Sweden or keep him in NA. Chevy wanted to send him back and let him have a big development year there.
- Ehlers future is very much up in the air. Could be signed to an extension or could be traded. Nothing new, but seems to be a bit less positive around an extension. “Will do what’s best for the Winnipeg Jets”.
- Jets would be interested in resigning Pionk if things go well this season, and said he has played most of a recent season with a broken foot. Team loves his compete.
- Chevy wants to sign Connor to an extension and sees him in the Jets future.

Chevy's comments certainly seemed to indicate that Salomonsson isn't that far away from some NHL play. He might play himself into the RD mix in camp.

Comments about Pionk seemed to indicate that the Jets are aware of Pionk's need for improvement. His foot injury a couple of years ago likely held him back, along with personal challenges last season. But Chevy didn't commit to Pionk being a core player going forward.

I also got the impression that an Ehlers' extension is not imminent, if ever. The way Chevy answered left open the possibility of a trade, I think. I won't be shocked if the Jets decide to promote a winger from the AHL at some point (Lambert? Chibrikov?) and move Ehlers for help elsewhere. I think they'll wait and see how Vilardi's health holds up and how Lambert and Chibrikov perform (maybe Barron too) and determine Ehlers' future. If he's going to essentially play 3RW then it makes sense to move him for another position of need like C or RD.

I still wonder about the CBJ as an Ehlers' trade option. Ehlers fits a need there and they have some good options for a trade.

 

[Bob E]

Chevy's comments certainly seemed to indicate that Salomonsson isn't that far away from some NHL play. He might play himself into the RD mix in camp.

Comments about Pionk seemed to indicate that the Jets are aware of Pionk's need for improvement. His foot injury a couple of years ago likely held him back, along with personal challenges last season. But Chevy didn't commit to Pionk being a core player going forward.

I also got the impression that an Ehlers' extension is not imminent, if ever. The way Chevy answered left open the possibility of a trade, I think. I won't be shocked if the Jets decide to promote a winger from the AHL at some point (Lambert? Chibrikov?) and move Ehlers for help elsewhere. I think they'll wait and see how Vilardi's health holds up and how Lambert and Chibrikov perform (maybe Barron too) and determine Ehlers' future. If he's going to essentially play 3RW then it makes sense to move him for another position of need like C or RD.

I still wonder about the CBJ as an Ehlers' trade option. Ehlers fits a need there and they have some good options for a trade.

I have the same thoughts about CBJ and Ehlers. Losing JG this summer could mean they want another flashy skilled player to excite fans in a developmental year. They may also want to move on from Werenski’s huge contract and go with younger players.

Jets could package Ehlers and a guy like Pionk in a Werenski deal, allowing CBJ to talk extensions beforehand, while taking back another contract.

 

[KingBogo]

I didn't add the two teams together for that year. My bad.

Where do I get the idea he barely played? Probably Murat Ates who said that again this week on WST. I also read he was the 2C. Is there a site that tracked his actual toi? But if he was a 2C, he wasn't good at it and was getting caved in. That clearly wasn't good for his development.

When you say "consensus" you mean a hypothetical draft board created by people who don't pick the players, which we don't need after he was taken 30th in reality.

Again, just because a development path is right for some there is no one best way to develop a player. A development path needs to start with the needs of a specific player. The European pro league path was clearly not right for Lambert. The fact is that path had him playing poorly with his peers at the WJC and free falling down the draft board. Playing in Finland was breaking him, the Jets put him on a development path that was right for him. My best guess would be that he wouldn't be on the edge of a NHL job today if he was left in Finland.

The European pro league path is pretty much the only path for the top prospects from Europe before they are drafted into the NHL and become part of an NHL organization. Not that some European players don't come over to play in the CHL, but that seems to be pretty rare for the Swedish and Finish kids that almost always develop through their own junior and pro systems and play internationally as they can. Maybe staying at the junior level there would have been better than the pro level and might have helped his offensive game? I don't disagree bring Brad over to NA was the right move, but that couldn't be done until he was actually drafted by us or another NHL team.

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

I have the same thoughts about CBJ and Ehlers. Losing JG this summer could mean they want another flashy skilled player to excite fans in a developmental year. They may also want to move on from Werenski’s huge contract and go with younger players.

Jets could package Ehlers and a guy like Pionk in a Werenski deal, allowing CBJ to talk extensions beforehand, while taking back another contract.

That would be an awesome deal for us - if mateychuk has a huge camp they may want to open up some ice time for him

 

[voyageur]

Chevy's comments certainly seemed to indicate that Salomonsson isn't that far away from some NHL play. He might play himself into the RD mix in camp.

Comments about Pionk seemed to indicate that the Jets are aware of Pionk's need for improvement. His foot injury a couple of years ago likely held him back, along with personal challenges last season. But Chevy didn't commit to Pionk being a core player going forward.

I also got the impression that an Ehlers' extension is not imminent, if ever. The way Chevy answered left open the possibility of a trade, I think. I won't be shocked if the Jets decide to promote a winger from the AHL at some point (Lambert? Chibrikov?) and move Ehlers for help elsewhere. I think they'll wait and see how Vilardi's health holds up and how Lambert and Chibrikov perform (maybe Barron too) and determine Ehlers' future. If he's going to essentially play 3RW then it makes sense to move him for another position of need like C or RD.

I still wonder about the CBJ as an Ehlers' trade option. Ehlers fits a need there and they have some good options for a trade.

It's hard to see Ehlers ever re-signing in Clb, if Laine wanted out of there so bad. I wonder if Montreal isn't a good trade partner, where they try to kindle some of that magic again. Canadiens are loaded with prospects. At the end of the day the entire Jets locker room knows that Ehlers contributes to the team, so you can't improve it by simply negation. I think that was the point Chevy was trying to make, if the team is winning with Ehlers you ride it, if the Jets start off slow and Ehlers isn't going, probably shake things up...does sound like the last season for Nik, so the summer leaks by his agent seem to be true.

Pionk was really talked about not in a hockey but a personal sense. I think Chevy's like him, because he comes to play, hurt, troubled, and battles night in night out. See where it goes.

Salomonsson having an endorsement from Arniel bodes well for him. Once you get to TC he'll probably get some looks with NHL players instead of AHL ones, and that might make a big difference. Still seems like the plan was to give him a full season in the A, and there probably needs to be an adaptation period coming over to N.A.

 

[TS Quint]

The European pro league path is pretty much the only path for the top prospects from Europe before they are drafted into the NHL and become part of an NHL organization. Not that some European players don't come over to play in the CHL, but that seems to be pretty rare for the Swedish and Finish kids that almost always develop through their own junior and pro systems and play internationally as they can. Maybe staying at the junior level there would have been better than the pro level and might have helped his offensive game? I don't disagree bring Brad over to NA was the right move, but that couldn't be done until he was actually drafted by us or another NHL team.

But the Euro league's aren't the only choice. He was drafted into the WHL. I'm sure he could have chosen College as well. Playing in Liiga as he insisted was not the only option. Most teams would have made him earn his spot in Liiga. Most teams in Liiga likely would have made him play at his level. But he didn't want that and that is how he ended up on a bad team who let him make his own bad decisions.

 

[KingBogo]

But the Euro league's aren't the only choice. He was drafted into the WHL. Playing in Liiga as he insisted was not the only option either.

Every single top Finish prospect has gone down the Same development path as Lambert

Barkov
Liane
Aho
Rantenan
Slavkovsky
Heiskanan
Hintz
Teravainen
Grandlund
Lundell
Etc, etc, etc..

Hell even Kupari went down the same development path. Instead of throwing a whole country's development system under the bus, that has developed many of the top NHL players, maybe Lambert just had a really bad draft season and has now got back on track? Lucky for us he dropped like he did. It happens in the CHL to players as well.

 

[TS Quint]

Every single top Finish prospect has gone down the Same development path as Lambert

Barkov
Liane
Aho
Rantenan
Slavkovsky
Heiskanan
Hintz
Teravainen
Grandlund
Lundell
Etc, etc, etc..

Hell even Kupari went down the same development path. Instead of throwing a whole country's development system under the bus, that has developed many of the top NHL players, maybe Lambert just had a really bad draft season and has now got back on track? Lucky for us he dropped like he did. It happens in the CHL to players as well.

I don't know why you insist that there is a one size fits all path for players. This is an obvious case of it not being right for this particular player and all the good teams on Finland agreed.

 

[KingBogo]

I don't know why you insist that there is a one size fits all path for players. This is an obvious case of it not being right for this particular player and all the good teams on Finland agreed.

Lets switch this around. What is the failing of the Finish developmental system that has served so many top players well, that Lambert couldn't adapt to? Maybe the CHL would have been a bad fit as well? Maybe it was something in the player that interfered with his draft year?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't understand why so many people feel the need to play Perfetti at C. He's a great goddamn winger. Not everyone needs to be a centre

The fact that it sounds like Arniel has him penciled in on the wing is actually to me more of a statement to the fact that they see Lambert as a long term C, which is a blessing.

No, everyone does not need to be a C - but someone needs to be a C. Perfetti was drafted as a C. We need a C. That's why so many people feel the need to play Perfetti at C. Pretty simple. That will continue until we no longer need a C.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Nope as long as Chipman owns the team we will follow in lock step with a large cluster of teams that try to compete for the playoffs every year (Minnesota being very effective at it). The Jets path is understandable at this snap shot in time given the core players contracts and lack of fan demand. Their approach is also an uncontrollable variable in my life. My main focus is to manage what I “can” control which is my expectations.

To that end I am “trying” to enjoy the journey with all its ups and downs. Last regular season was a blast, and the team crushed it, far exceeding my expectations. Bravo to that.

The Jets annual 2.0 playoff collapse, dropping the last four in a row every time we are eliminated (except v The Blues). That part of the journey is disheartening but it is what it is.

I do not expect to reach my dream “destination” which is a Stanley cup in Winnipeg in my life time, and I am at peace with that (although anything is possible). Very hard trophy to win.

The reason I watch is because I do really like NHL hockey in Winnipeg. I love getting to a live NHL game. I don’t expect that to go away.

Lastly, HFBoards Jets forum is a fun place to exchange ideas and thoughts. Playing imaginary GM with fellow Jets fanatics is a relaxing hobby.

The Jets path is understandable at this snap shot in time given the core players contracts and lack of fan demand.

I do not expect to reach my dream “destination” which is a Stanley cup in Winnipeg in my life time, and I am at peace with that (although anything is possible). Very hard trophy to win.

Back to the old mediocrity vs rebuild discussion .......
Was just talking to an old friend, die-hard Flames fan and lifelong player himself. He is excited for his Flames this year, going into the rebuild. He has hope for the future. FWIW

My expectations are low. So is my excitement level. 1 or 2 young guys making the team might raise the excitement level.

 

[TS Quint]

Lets switch this around. What is the failing of the Finish developmental system that has served so many top players well, that Lambert couldn't adapt to? Maybe the CHL would have been a bad fit as well? Maybe it was something in the player that interfered with his draft year?

My god man. These are different players. Not all Finns play their draft year in Liiga. Just look at that list you gave. It's ridiculous. You have 3 lotto picks in there. Are these the players you are seriously comparing Lambert to? How good were the rest of those guys at the WJC? I see some superstar WJC players in there. How did Lambert do?

You have the cart before the horse. You evaluate the player then pick the development path. Not pick the development path then shove the player into it.

Let's just look at this list and how these players did in their draft year.

Barkov 48pts/53Games/team finished 2nd

Liane 33pts/48gm/team league champs
Aho 11pts/27gm

Rantenan 28pts/56gms/2nd on team scoring

Slavkovsky 10pts/31gms/destroyed the U20 competition

Heiskanan 10pts/37gms, better than Lambert and a defenseman.

Hintz 17pts/42Gms

Teravainen 18pts/40gms

Lundell 28pts/44gms

All these guys earned their spots on their teams. Lambert took a tour of Liiga demanding a spot in the top league to get 10 points in 49 games. The Pelicans agreed to terminate his contract because they wouldn't give into his demands. I don't recall any of the players you listed doing that.

I'm just going to agree to disagree. Lambert isn't Barkov and shouldn't be treated like Barkov. That's just silly.

 

[KingBogo]

My god man. These are different players. Not all Finns play their draft year in Liiga. Just look at that list you gave. It's ridiculous. You have 3 lotto picks in there. Are these the players you are seriously comparing Lambert to? How good were the rest of those guys at the WJC? I see some superstar WJC players in there. How did Lambert do?

You have the cart before the horse. You evaluate the player then pick the development path. Not pick the development path then shove the player into it.

Let's just look at this list and how these players did in their draft year.

Barkov 48pts/53Games/team finished 2nd

Liane 33pts/48gm/team league champs
Aho 11pts/27gm

Rantenan 28pts/56gms/2nd on team scoring

Slavkovsky 10pts/31gms/destroyed the U20 competition

Heiskanan 10pts/37gms, better than Lambert and a defenseman.

Hintz 17pts/42Gms

Teravainen 18pts/40gms

Lundell 28pts/44gms

All these guys earned their spots on their teams. Lambert took a tour of Liiga demanding a spot in the top league to get 10 points in 49 games. The Pelicans agreed to terminate his contract because they wouldn't give into his demands. I don't recall any of the players you listed doing that.

I'm just going to agree to disagree. Lambert isn't Barkov and shouldn't be treated like Barkov. That's just silly.

But Finland was where Lambert was always going to develop. My main problem is the inference that European developmental systems are inferior, which just isn't the case. Canadian kids will develop through the CHL for the most part, American kids will develop through the USHL including the American development program and European kids, especially those from the big hockey countries (Russia, Sweden, Finland) will develop through their own countries development programs. Saying anyone system is better then the next is a huge leap IMO. You still haven't explained what the failings of the Finish system is. Also which Finish born players came up through the CHL or the USHL?

 

[TS Quint]

But Finland was where Lambert was always going to develop. My main problem is the inference that European developmental systems are inferior, which just isn't the case. Canadian kids will develop through the CHL for the most part, American kids will develop through the USHL including the American development program and European kids, especially those from the big hockey countries (Russia, Sweden, Finland) will develop through their own countries development programs. Saying anyone system is better then the next is a huge leap IMO. You still haven't explained what the failings of the Finish system is. Also which Finish born players came up through the CHL or the USHL?

You're not understanding the words I'm writing. I'm not saying anything is inferior from the beginning. Lambert straight up said the system you are so defensive of was wrong. He wanted to do his own thing.

Saying he was going to develop in Finland no matter what is complete BS. At his level you are potentially playing for hundreds of millions of $. He thought playing in Liiga was the best way. Everyone told him he was wrong and he was. Probably another reason why he dropped in the draft. He was a little McGroarty.

Playing in Liiga was wrong for him. He wasn't at that level. It hurt him. Pelicans didn't think he was good enough to play Liiga. Just about every team in the league didn't think he was good enough. They could have sent him to U20 but Lambert refused. He should have been playing in a league that was at his level not the top league. Whether that is U20 in Finland or in the greatest feeder system to the NHL in the world in the CHL.

 

[KingBogo]

You're not understanding the words I'm writing. I'm not saying anything is inferior from the beginning. Lambert straight up said the system you are so defensive of was wrong. He wanted to do his own thing.

Saying he was going to develop in Finland no matter what is complete BS. At his level you are potentially playing for hundreds of millions of $. He thought playing in Liiga was the best way. Everyone told him he was wrong and he was. Probably another reason why he dropped in the draft. He was a little McGroarty.

Playing in Liiga was wrong for him. He wasn't at that level. It hurt him. Pelicans didn't think he was good enough to play Liiga. Just about every team in the league didn't think he was good enough. They could have sent him to U20 but Lambert refused. He should have been playing in a league that was at his level not the top league. Whether that is U20 in Finland or in the greatest feeder system to the NHL in the world in the CHL.

But no Finish kids ever develop anywhere else but Finland, just like Canadian kids don't go to Europe to develop. To expect that as an option, just isn't realistic.

 

[Buffdog]

No, everyone does not need to be a C - but someone needs to be a C. Perfetti was drafted as a C. We need a C. That's why so many people feel the need to play Perfetti at C. Pretty simple. That will continue until we no longer need a C.

Cole payed his draft year almost exclusively as a winger

We have Lambert as 2C moving forward, and Names this year if he isn't ready. With schief and Lowry, C is getting crowded. Yager is also a natural C who is 2 or 3 years away

With the rutger trade and ehlers having one year left (and Connor 2), it's very possible that there will be a lack of top 6 wingers in the near future. And Cole is an excellent winger

 

[TS Quint]

But no Finish kids ever develop anywhere else but Finland, just like Canadian kids don't go to Europe to develop. To expect that as an option, just isn't realistic.

And yet he did develop in the WHL weird. And his dad is from Saskatchewan.