Winnipeg Jets going into the 24/25 season

[surixon]

IMO, Chevy is talking youth at this point because that is what is available to him - his adds are gone, he lost a dman, and another was bought out based on contract / performance - so the holes are open. I don't see this as some grand plan that Chevy came up with - and there is no way of assuming it is long term - it looks more to me like a reaction to stuff that happened, . The Jets will probably continue to tinker to make the PO's and that may include more deadline deals that Chevy thinks will help.
I'd like to believe there is some sort of long term plan in play - but I don't buy it. This team will likely continue with the game plan that means making the PO's and if the youth can help in that, they will be a pce of the plan - if not, they will look elsewhere.

Yes I imagine a good amount of this is reactionary to striking out in FA. It just highlights the fact this org had been in full blown reactionary mode for a number of years now. It starts at the top with Chipman being in full blown panic mode with ticket sales and that trickles down to hockey opps making knee Jerk short term moves.

But the market has spoken and Chevy and Co really don't have much choice but to put some trust in the kids. I'm sure he's more bullish on some then others.

Should be an interesting year.

 

[WolfHouse]

Yes I imagine a good amount of this is reactionary to striking out in FA. It just highlights the fact this org had been in full blown reactionary mode for a number of years now. It starts at the top with Chipman being in full blown panic mode with ticket sales and that trickles down to hockey opps making knee Jerk short term moves.

But the market has spoken and Chevy and Co really don't have much choice but to put some trust in the kids. I'm sure he's more bullish on some then others.

Should be an interesting year.

TNSE wasn't in panic mode with season tickets when we were chasing Timo Meier and other guys before that... It does seem like our draft develop strategy really was thrown out when we made the finals - and replaced with no strategy.

 

[Heldig]

It has been talked about for a while but a draft and develop team that has had very few draft picks - as a result of trading futures for immediate help (that did not help) - whilst failing with numerous draft picks in the last 5 years or so - and here we are.

A team that is committed to a small core of veterans with few top prospects and a concerning public reputation of being not good for developing young players.

 

[LowLefty]

Yes I imagine a good amount of this is reactionary to striking out in FA. It just highlights the fact this org had been in full blown reactionary mode for a number of years now. It starts at the top with Chipman being in full blown panic mode with ticket sales and that trickles down to hockey opps making knee Jerk short term moves.

But the market has spoken and Chevy and Co really don't have much choice but to put some trust in the kids. I'm sure he's more bullish on some then others.

Should be an interesting year.

I agree -
This is not a Long Term Plan of any sort - it's Chevy shifting the message to suit the situation.
He has holes in the lineup that need to be filled - so now we are on a "integrate the youth" movement - lol.

 

[sipowicz]

No 2C, soft D corps with questionable top 4 (Morrissey aside), no competant backup goalie, unknown coaching.....

gonna be another long season

 

[WolfHouse]

No 2C, soft D corps with questionable top 4 (Morrissey aside), no competant backup goalie, unknown coaching.....

gonna be another long season

We might barely hit 100 points this year. Ugh.

 

[surixon]

I agree -
This is not a Long Term Plan of any sort - it's Chevy shifting the message to suit the situation.
He has holes in the lineup that need to be filled - so now we are on a "integrate the youth" movement - lol.

I imagine the plan was always to give Snerg and Cole larger roles and get Ville into the fold. But my thinking is they had originally wanted to give Lambert and Chibrikov another year on the Moose. My guessing is they now feel they may need to advance one of the two a year.

 

[buggs]

It starts at the top with Chipman being in full blown panic mode with ticket sales and that trickles down to hockey opps making knee Jerk short term moves.

The sooner that Chipman and the gang realize that performance wasn't why they are bleeding ticket sales, the sooner they stop making those short term moves. It's not the team, it's how the organization treated the fans that were ponying up their hard earned dollars for season tickets. They burned an awful lot of bridges with fans that could afford season tickets. Very few of those fans are returning.

 

[surixon]

The sooner that Chipman and the gang realize that performance wasn't why they are bleeding ticket sales, the sooner they stop making those short term moves. It's not the team, it's how the organization treated the fans that were ponying up their hard earned dollars for season tickets. They burned an awful lot of bridges with fans that could afford season tickets. Very few of those fans are returning.

Yup, they need to fix their customer service. If they can't retain good ticket reps then maybe they should seriously look to outsource it to a third party that specializes in client engagement.

I think they are aware of the issue but seemingly don't know how to fix it in-house.

 

[DRW204]

It’s an interesting debate and although there is a hint of frustration and possible cynicism in your post it’s not unfounded.

Looking back:

When the Jets arrived for the 2011-12 season Atlanta had just come off integrating Bogosian, Kane, and Burmi in their big rebuild (flop) all as 18 year olds. Zero delayed gratification for the fans hungering for the youth movement.

Then there was the lull. After Burmi it would take three seasons for the Jets to integrate their next prospect Schief and Trouba 2013-14 but that began the golden era of prospect integration up to Connor in 17-18. That group of prospects largely drove a bottom 13 NHL team to 2nd OA in the NHL and a cup contender.

That begot the dark age starting after Connor . Our drafting kind of went in the tank due to later picks, missing on picks, and more picks traded away. Stan, K-Ves, Jack,……..there was no real integration after Connor 17-18. The Next guy to come along that showed even a remote promise of playing top 6 fwd or top 4 D was Samberg in 2022-23. That was a half a decade slump and it explains why we don’t have the young pieces to get this core over the top.

However, I think starting with Perfetti we have begun to add some prospects that are not as rich and deep as our golden age but they are better than the dark ages. We have had two set backs that don’t help with McG doing the heel turn and Chaz looking like he is too fragile for Ice hockey but we still have a few interesting assets that “may be of help” over the next couple of seasons. Chipman’s panic boner doesn’t really help prospect integration as he brings in 80 year old coaches and trades draft capital to try to sell empty seats today but……..

The reality is the golden era core will age out over the next 3-5 seasons so the win now and forever strategy can only be fueled by shuffling the deck chairs for so long. The only practical way to re-build a core in Winnipeg is to hit on draft picks.

Not frustration at anything a gm says. I'm just firmly in the "see it to beleive it" camp when it comes to most things sports gm's or coaches say. Rather than eating the smallest shit up which hf sometimes does.

Folks on this forum routinely take small smidges of uncontexualized interviews, quotes and then apply it as a gospel, or concrete as if things remain static through an entire sports season. Secondly, anyone can say anything and have it printed and ran with. I'll hold legitimate actions in higher regard such as transactions or even transaction attempts.

So, color me extremely unsurprised that at the HLKINA, a tournament headlined by prospects, that a hockey executive is talking about their prospects as a primary conversation point. Like gee great nugget to unearth!

Meanwhile, they've brought back nearly the entire group to start last year and signed or attempted to sign vets (the horror!!!) as additional or replacement pieces, while still being a team hopeful of cup contention.

Can a prospect or 2 be in the lineup to start, sure. I hardly quantify this as movement, and is something teams do frequently. Hardly anything exciting or noteworthy imo.

 

[tbcwpg]

The sooner that Chipman and the gang realize that performance wasn't why they are bleeding ticket sales, the sooner they stop making those short term moves. It's not the team, it's how the organization treated the fans that were ponying up their hard earned dollars for season tickets. They burned an awful lot of bridges with fans that could afford season tickets. Very few of those fans are returning.

I see this take often but very rarely do people say what actually put them off. I expect there is a not insignificant portion of people who were selling tickets to make back some of their cost and that market dried up.

I can afford season tickets more now than I could when I had them but my lifestyle just doesn't fit that anymore. Nothing to do with how I was treated since my interaction with the reps was minimal. I'm also not interested in buying them during a rebuild if that happens.

 

[buggs]

Yup, they need to fix their customer service. If they can't retain good ticket reps then maybe they should seriously look to outsource it to a third party that specializes in client engagement.

I think they are aware of the issue but seemingly don't know how to fix it in-house.

Part of the issue is that they can retain good ticket reps - they can, do and then promote them. Meaning the ticket rep position is forever an entry level position with very high turnover. That's the face/voice/email the average (so anyone NOT in a box) fan gets to interact with. They are mostly young adults, fresh out of a business program.

The position itself is also thankless which invariably leads to the turnover as well. I've heard lots of stories about season ticket holders berating ticket reps over the phone for moves Chevy did, or didn't, make. So I'm sympathetic to them and the challenges they face but the longest I ever had a ticket rep was about 15 months. As I've posted previously I'm on my 4th in the last twelve months.

I swear it's the used car salesman model and it's a poor choice for this type of organization.

That said the ticket reps are the least of the orgs problems as they're mostly well meaning young men and women not really cut out for that type of position in most cases. And I don't mean that as a slight to them, it's a difficult position.

The biggest mistake they made, IMO, is undervaluing those STH they had. There was always bound to be turnover as some that initially got tickets were in for a quick buck. Once that dried up those ticket holders left, but I'd guess that's maybe 10% or less of STH and they were easily replaceable. So it's the treatment of the other 90% that were the issue and the stories I've heard from many are the same. In a nutshell TNSE was utterly unresponsive to any of their concerns and consideration for those concerns was negligible at best. The communication was channeled through the ticket reps so they get the blame, but it is organizational.

TNSE has acknowledged they are to blame to some degree but the behaviors remain precisely the same as they were previously. The organization is basically behaving like a government bureaucracy - those in charge are never in danger of losing their positions so there's not any meaningful change. Those in the upper echelon will tell you they are introspective and they're absolutely certain they aren't the problem. They've performed their due diligence and looked at what is happening and even created a STH Council to help them. But like all self-serving bureaucracies they suffer from toxic positivity and discount any negative feedback as being only from whiners and pessimists. There's never actually any real introspection.

I see this take often but very rarely do people say what actually put them off. I expect there is a not insignificant portion of people who were selling tickets to make back some of their cost and that market dried up.

I can afford season tickets more now than I could when I had them but my lifestyle just doesn't fit that anymore. Nothing to do with how I was treated since my interaction with the reps was minimal. I'm also not interested in buying them during a rebuild if that happens.

I've delineated it many times in the past and have had many conversations with individuals. I'm opting to not repeat myself but I'm quite happy to go into excruciating detail if you'd like.

Respectfully I disagree with you on the proportion who were selling, I think it was insignificant, perhaps 10% that were reliant upon it. Certainly many have now opted to sell the higher demand games like Montreal and Toronto, but that's just about all that reaches that level of demand these days where you can make over your STH price (McDavid and Edmonton as well I suspect).

 

[surixon]

Part of the issue is that they can retain good ticket reps - they can, do and then promote them. Meaning the ticket rep position is forever an entry level position with very high turnover. That's the face/voice/email the average (so anyone NOT in a box) fan gets to interact with. They are mostly young adults, fresh out of a business program.

The position itself is also thankless which invariably leads to the turnover as well. I've heard lots of stories about season ticket holders berating ticket reps over the phone for moves Chevy did, or didn't, make. So I'm sympathetic to them and the challenges they face but the longest I ever had a ticket rep was about 15 months. As I've posted previously I'm on my 4th in the last twelve months.

I swear it's the used car salesman model and it's a poor choice for this type of organization.

That said the ticket reps are the least of the orgs problems as they're mostly well meaning young men and women not really cut out for that type of position in most cases. And I don't mean that as a slight to them, it's a difficult position.

The biggest mistake they made, IMO, is undervaluing those STH they had. There was always bound to be turnover as some that initially got tickets were in for a quick buck. Once that dried up those ticket holders left, but I'd guess that's maybe 10% or less of STH and they were easily replaceable. So it's the treatment of the other 90% that were the issue and the stories I've heard from many are the same. In a nutshell TNSE was utterly unresponsive to any of their concerns and consideration for those concerns was negligible at best. The communication was channeled through the ticket reps so they get the blame, but it is organizational.

TNSE has acknowledged they are to blame to some degree but the behaviors remain precisely the same as they were previously. The organization is basically behaving like a government bureaucracy - those in charge are never in danger of losing their positions so there's not any meaningful change. Those in the upper echelon will tell you they are introspective and they're absolutely certain they aren't the problem. They've performed their due diligence and looked at what is happening and even created a STH Council to help them. But like all self-serving bureaucracies they suffer from toxic positivity and discount any negative feedback as being only from whiners and pessimists. There's never actually any real introspection.


I've delineated it many times in the past and have had many conversations with individuals. I'm opting to not repeat myself but I'm quite happy to go into excruciating detail if you'd like.

Respectfully I disagree with you on the proportion who were selling, I think it was insignificant, perhaps 10% that were reliant upon it. Certainly many have now opted to sell the higher demand games like Montreal and Toronto, but that's just about all that reaches that level of demand these days where you can make over your STH price (McDavid and Edmonton as well I suspect).

Ok, I've seen your point often enough to know what you deem to be missteps.

In your view what do they need to do repair it. What actual services, perks, engagement that are realistic need to be done.

Personally I have been seat holder since day one and really don't care much about all the other stuff. I guess I'm easy to please cause all I care about is attending the games. Things like contests, food and beverage choices are all secondary to me and I just choose to buy or not buy. I've also never really had a need to engage with the reps for things. I'm satisfied with the food and merch discount.

On some level I think maybe some people feel entitled to far more then what is realistic.

 

[10Ducky10]

We might barely hit 100 points this year. Ugh.

I'd be happy with 100 points if Lambert and Ville are on the team.

I imagine the plan was always to give Snerg and Cole larger roles and get Ville into the fold. But my thinking is they had originally wanted to give Lambert and Chibrikov another year on the Moose. My guessing is they now feel they may need to advance one of the two a year.

I don't see what everyone else does in Chibs...at best, he is a 3rd liner in the NHL.

 

[surixon]

I'd be happy with 100 points if Lambert and Ville are on the team.


I don't see what everyone else does in Chibs...at best, he is a 3rd liner in the NHL.

He's got nice hands, a plus shot with good speed. He also plays a fiery game. He has holes though that he needs to clean up. To me he's a poor man's KC.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

IMO, Chevy is talking youth at this point because that is what is available to him - his adds are gone, he lost a dman, and another was bought out based on contract / performance - so the holes are open. I don't see this as some grand plan that Chevy came up with - and there is no way of assuming it is long term - it looks more to me like a reaction to stuff that happened, . The Jets will probably continue to tinker to make the PO's and that may include more deadline deals that Chevy thinks will help.
I'd like to believe there is some sort of long term plan in play - but I don't buy it. This team will likely continue with the game plan that means making the PO's and if the youth can help in that, they will be a pce of the plan - if not, they will look elsewhere.

That is a sad assessment - but probably correct.

Judge people by what they do, not what they say. The goal will remain to simply make the PO and then hope to get some luck.

Apart from Miller in for Schmidt and Heinola being given a shot at 3LD we are simply running it back. And Stanley could very well still be the regular 3LD. The only questions are about who and how many will be in the press box.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

No 2C, soft D corps with questionable top 4 (Morrissey aside), no competant backup goalie, unknown coaching.....

gonna be another long season

DeMelo doesn't fit the mold for a 1RD or for a partner for Morrissey, yet he gets the job done at a pretty high level. Samberg isn't a replacement for Dillon's physicality but I'm pretty sure he will be a decent 3/4 Dman. Pionk is the weak link in our D corps.

Otherwise, top line that can't win its matchups. 2nd line that is actually a shut-down 3rd line .............. yeah, long season.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I see this take often but very rarely do people say what actually put them off. I expect there is a not insignificant portion of people who were selling tickets to make back some of their cost and that market dried up.

I can afford season tickets more now than I could when I had them but my lifestyle just doesn't fit that anymore. Nothing to do with how I was treated since my interaction with the reps was minimal. I'm also not interested in buying them during a rebuild if that happens.

I've said it before. The reason I gave up my tickets was how I was treated. Period.

I never interacted with a ticket rep. As part of a group who liked their seats it was never necessary. It was a basket of practices that started with required purchase of pre-season games at regular season prices and ended with TNSE selling seats all around me for substantially less than what I was paying. And throwing in a free beer, or whatever.

There were other issues, but they were lesser irritants.

You aren't interested in buying them during a rebuild. I'm not sure I'm interested in buying them WITHOUT a rebuild.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He's got nice hands, a plus shot with good speed. He also plays a fiery game. He has holes though that he needs to clean up. To me he's a poor man's KC.

Don't see the KC comparison. If it is valid then maybe he is a not so poor man's KC who scores less but has a better all around game. He plays a fiery game, which is what KC lacks. I see him as a more skilled Tanev.

 

[surixon]

Don't see the KC comparison. If it is valid then maybe he is a not so poor man's KC who scores less but has a better all around game. He plays a fiery game, which is what KC lacks. I see him as a more skilled Tanev.

I'm mostly talking about his skills with the puck and instincts around the net. He does play with more jam off the puck. But has similar defensive deficiencies as KC.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm mostly talking about his skills with the puck and instincts around the net. He does play with more jam off the puck. But has similar defensive deficiencies as KC.

OK. I think you could say the same about Tanev. Tenacious forechecker. Not so great defensively, though not KC bad.

 

[tbcwpg]

I've said it before. The reason I gave up my tickets was how I was treated. Period.

I never interacted with a ticket rep. As part of a group who liked their seats it was never necessary. It was a basket of practices that started with required purchase of pre-season games at regular season prices and ended with TNSE selling seats all around me for substantially less than what I was paying. And throwing in a free beer, or whatever.

There were other issues, but they were lesser irritants.

You aren't interested in buying them during a rebuild. I'm not sure I'm interested in buying them WITHOUT a rebuild.

We'll cancel each other out then. I don't want to spend $10k to watch them get blown out each night.

I can appreciate the preseason game gripe. I don't agree with the anger over seats sold around for less. It was a promotion to get people in the building because those seats weren't moving otherwise. Your benefit is getting to every game for less and cheaper playoff tickets. Those deals weren't available for every game or every opponent either.

 

[Buffdog]

Don't see the KC comparison. If it is valid then maybe he is a not so poor man's KC who scores less but has a better all around game. He plays a fiery game, which is what KC lacks. I see him as a more skilled Tanev.

Yeah, I see Chibs more as a "rich man's Tanev" than a "poor man's Connor"

Maybe he'll end up as "a Russian man's Matty Pearrault". Smaller size, high energy, throws his body, has some finish/skill. Similar stats in their first year in the AHL

Perrault: 77GP 11G 39A 50PT
Chibrikov: 70GP 17G 30A 47PT

 

[Flair Hay]

Yeah, I see Chibs more as a "rich man's Tanev" than a "poor man's Connor"

Maybe he'll end up as "a Russian man's Matty Pearrault". Smaller size, high energy, throws his body, has some finish/skill. Similar stats in their first year in the AHL

Perrault: 77GP 11G 39A 50PT
Chibrikov: 70GP 17G 30A 47PT

Yeah Perreault was probably a 3rd liner at best on a contender but he was still a valuable contributor for years in his prime

 

[scelaton]

...
Personally I have been seat holder since day one and really don't care much about all the other stuff. I guess I'm easy to please cause all I care about is attending the games. Things like contests, food and beverage choices are all secondary to me and I just choose to buy or not buy. I've also never really had a need to engage with the reps for things. I'm satisfied with the food and merch discount.

On some level I think maybe some people feel entitled to far more then what is realistic.

I wouldn't say you are just easy to please, but at ~ 50,000 posts it is clear that the Jets mean more to you than to most on this board, and 99% of Winnipeggers. You are atypical.

As for entitlement, it is everywhere these days, but does not describe our fan base particularly well. More than others, we know we are not "entitled" to a team and could lose them again, just like we did the first time. A big chunk of our vulnerability is simply numbers and dollars--we are a small city with a modest economic base. None of that is TNSE's fault.

BUT. TNSE could have done much, much better. There is a sense of entitlement in the organization itself that has bred complacency and ingratitude. They know how much the Jets are valued and were spoiled rotten, literally, by a seeming insatiable demand the first number of years after the return.

Put simply, they needed to try harder to please and be more grateful to their customer base. ps241 and others who are in business will know exactly what I am saying. You have to treat every (decent) customer as the potential key to your future success. Or ultimately, you will fail.

Of course, putting out a winning lineup is a the most obvious way to increase fan engagement, but if the ST base ( and general fanbase) respect the organization, there is a lot more latitude to, eg, take chances with youth and make other strategic decisions with a degree of risk attached.

I have had a lot of contact with TNSE, as a STH and also professionally. I gave up my share of ST a few years ago because I have many other ways of seeing games live, but also because of the air of indifference emanating from the organization. There appear to be two clubs-- the young men's club (ie, the players) and the old boys club--if you are not in either club, you are invisible.

That started to change these past couple of years, inside and outside the dressing room, but they still have a lot of work to do and a lot of culture to change.