Winnipeg Jets going into the 24/25 season

[LowLefty]

Agreed but multiple things can be true at the same time. Short term moves at the TDL can by counter to the longer term strategy if you think you are close now. I think/hope Chevy will now double down on the longer term strategy.

I agree -
I think Chevy learned from that more than the coach - and I hope he sticks with that strategy.

 

[surixon]

Agreed I think there was a growing disconnect between Chevy’s long term plans and Bones’ short term roster decisions. We will see what Arniel does but I expect the organization to start pushing in their young players this year and next much as they did in 15-16 and 16-17 and push hard for a contention window supported by young cost efficient players on their ELCs.

My guess is Arniel got the job because he's aligned to what managemnts direction is. If he wasn't Chevy would have gone with someone who was. I think it's very telling Chevy and the media have said numerous times that Cole stands to gain a lot and that all three are on the same page. Chevy has also talked about youth integration a number of times this summer.

Bones had a very unique mandate imo. He was always only seen as short term and his primary objectives were to fix a broken room and implement a defensive foundation. I think things like youth integration were down on the priority list he was given.

I'd expect Arniel has a very different set of objectives.

 

[surixon]

Or he feels the year was a good learning season for Cole and he reacted well to what took place.
I'm sure the players in the room would also pick up on how well Cole reacted to the challenges - and that would help him integrate in the core.
Rookies go through tough situations - how well they react and adapt is the measuring stick.
There is no reason to assume the coach was working outside Chevy's box -

We were told multiple times by multiple people Cole handled it like a pro. I'm sure he'll be better for it but I also think mistakes were made by both coach and GM alike.

Even with the deadline moves we had options for different types of combinations and philosophys Bones elected not to try.

I think it's very possible that while Chevy did go put and get other players to give the team a boost he also wasn't satisfied with Cole sitting as well. Both can be correct.

 

[Bigfish]

We were told multiple times by multiple people Cole handled it like a pro. I'm sure he'll be better for it but I also think mistakes were made by both coach and GM alike.

Even with the deadline moves we had options for different types of combinations and philosophys Bones elected not to try.

I think it's very possible that while Chevy did go put and get other players to give the team a boost he also wasn't satisfied with Cole sitting as well. Both can be correct.

Chevy is the boss. It's his team. He hires and fires coaches, not the other way around. If he wanted Cole to play Cole would of played.

 

[surixon]

Chevy is the boss. It's his team. He hires and fires coaches, not the other way around. If he wanted Cole to play Cole would of played.

That isn't what has been presented to us. A number of media have indicated that the relationship is that Chevy sets the roster and the coach decides how to use it.

We saw this play out a few years ago with Cehvy stating to the media that he wanted Ville to play and then we had Maurice fire back in the media and then choose not to play him.

Coaches and GMs aren't always aligned and a winning team isn't firing a coach a month before the playoffs because there isn't full agreement in how the roster gets used.

 

[WolfHouse]

That isn't what has been presented to us. A number of media have indicated that the relationship is that Chevy sets the roster and the coach decides how to use it.

We saw this play out a few years ago with Cehvy stating to the media that he wanted Ville to play and then we had Maurice fire back in the media and then choose not to play him.

Coaches and GMs aren't always aligned and a winning team isn't firing a coach a month before the playoffs because there isn't full agreement in how the roster gets used.

Yeah Chevy does not seem like a handsome on GM... or maybe Chipman has a direct line to the coaches...

Edit: HANDS ON hahaha fkn autocorrect

 

[WaveRaven]

Integrating youth can be conductive to making the playoffs if they are developmentally ready and a step up skill wise on current depth players. No doubt the organization wants its prospects to come through the Moose development tract but they now look to have a couple ready taking that track with clear roster spots available.

Yes true but when you tell a coach to make playoffs they're going to play it safe. Yutes aren't the safe play. I believe why you see them continuously getting vets and playing them over youngsters.

This team isn't good enough to shelter youngsters like Dallas. Like I said we shall see. But no way do they want to take any step back.

 

[KingBogo]

Yes true but when you tell a coach to make playoffs they're going to play it safe. Yutes aren't the safe play. I believe why you see them continuously getting vets and playing them over youngsters.

This team isn't good enough to shelter youngsters like Dallas. Like I said we shall see. But no way do they want to take any step back.

But if your youth are ready you don’t have to take a step back. That is why you have your own farm team so your young players can step in and be an instant upgrade if they are developmentally ready. It has been an effective model for many organizations, you just need a coach who buys into the plan. My guess is Arniel wouldn’t have gotten the job if he didn’t buy into Chevy’s plan.

 

[surixon]

But if your youth are ready you don’t have to take a step back. That is why you have your own farm team so your young players can step in and be an instant upgrade if they are developmentally ready. It has been an effective model for many organizations, you just need a coach who buys into the plan. My guess is Arniel wouldn’t have gotten the job if he didn’t buy into Chevy’s plan.

Yup, and there are currently two roster spots open. One on defense and one upfront.

My guess is Lambert will get a chance to win the spot in camp upfront and Ville likely has the spot on defense.

 

[WaveRaven]

IF they're ready. I don't see Lambert being a second line center on a playoff team yet. I'd be shocked at him actually playing there. Perfetti had a year under his belt and it was a short leash. So what spot not Ehlers, the 4th line ? Unsure they'll put him there.

It will be Names at 2c he's the best option right now. Ville/Stan should get a shot but they've brought in vet backup. They've shown a reluctance in the past and I don't think it's just going to change all the sudden.

 

[DRW204]

Blah blah blah nearly every off season or TDL they say the same shit and unsurprisingly HF does their usual prospect circle jerk headlined by the usual suspects.

He said this at the Hlinka tournament... Wtf else do ppl think will be the primary topic of conversation or answer to a question. You think he'll be talking about veteran long-time NHL players?

Meanwhile this offseason, the nhl roster is 90% the same to start last year (adding miller and a new backup goalie - 2 vets).
And essentially 100% the same to start at fwd (at this point) , and they tried signing Monahan or Henrique and trading young players for Necas. Hmmm

 

[Eyeseeing]

My guess is Arniel got the job because he's aligned to what managemnts direction is. If he wasn't Chevy would have gone with someone who was. I think it's very telling Chevy and the media have said numerous times that Cole stands to gain a lot and that all three are on the same page. Chevy has also talked about youth integration a number of times this summer.

Bones had a very unique mandate imo. He was always only seen as short term and his primary objectives were to fix a broken room and implement a defensive foundation. I think things like youth integration were down on the priority list he was given.

I'd expect Arniel has a very different set of objectives.

Essentially a yes man

 

[KingBogo]

Essentially a yes man

I would reframe it as buying into the same long term vision as your boss.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I would reframe it as buying into the same long term vision as your boss.

I suppose.
Cheveldayoff has kept his job because he
is “aligned” with Chipper
Essentially a yes man.
I’d reframe it as job security in a non job security gig for Arniel and Cheveldayoff.

 

[surixon]

Essentially a yes man

I mean how many coaches out there get hired that don't buy into the vision laid out by their boss?

Clearly a coach should be given enough autonomy to do his job. But I imagine every coach who gets hired is given sub objectives by their GM that they need to hit. In terms of Arniel some of it looks to be improve the special teams and give some of the youth better roles or in the case of rookies opportunities if they show ready.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I mean how many coaches out there get hired that don't buy into the vision laid out by their boss?

Clearly a coach should be given enough autonomy to do his job. But I imagine every coach who gets hired is given sub objectives by their GM that they need to hit. In terms of Arniel some of it looks to be improve the special teams and give some of the youth better roles or in the case of rookies opportunities if they show ready.

As much as I hate the term old boys club
TNSE is an old Jets boy club

 

[surixon]

As much as I hate the term old boys club
TNSE is an old Jets boy club

I mean so is the rest of the league. Ruff is back in Buffalo. McDavid has his agent running the org, and has his junior coach as his NHL head coach just to name some other examples.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I mean so is the rest of the league. Ruff is back in Buffalo. McDavid has his agent running the org, and has his junior coach as his NHL head coach just to name some other examples.

Regardless , this organization will never rise above mediocre.
Little has changed or will change.
The organization has gone on record stating just make the playoffs.
They have and sucked at it and will continue to suck at it.
I hope I’m wrong but I doubt it.

 

[surixon]

Regardless , this organization will never rise above mediocre.
Little has changed or will change.
The organization has gone on record stating just make the playoffs.
They have and sucked at it and will continue to suck at it.
I hope I’m wrong but I doubt it.

I don't really disagree with you. We could use some fresh perspective. But I can understand why they operate the way they do. We've seen far too many undesirable markets stuck in never ending rebuilds.

We are between a rock and a hard place. We likely can only get truly elite talent by bottoming out, but we don't have the desirability to bring in the Hossa's, Panarin's etc to provide the high end vet talent to support the elite talent. We'd more then likely just be another Buffalo.

 

[ps241]

Blah blah blah nearly every off season or TDL they say the same shit and unsurprisingly HF does their usual prospect circle jerk headlined by the usual suspects.

He said this at the Hlinka tournament... Wtf else do ppl think will be the primary topic of conversation or answer to a question. You think he'll be talking about veteran long-time NHL players?

Meanwhile this offseason, the nhl roster is 90% the same to start last year (adding miller and a new backup goalie - 2 vets).
And essentially 100% the same to start at fwd (at this point) , and they tried signing Monahan or Henrique and trading young players for Necas. Hmmm

It’s an interesting debate and although there is a hint of frustration and possible cynicism in your post it’s not unfounded.

Looking back:

When the Jets arrived for the 2011-12 season Atlanta had just come off integrating Bogosian, Kane, and Burmi in their big rebuild (flop) all as 18 year olds. Zero delayed gratification for the fans hungering for the youth movement.

Then there was the lull. After Burmi it would take three seasons for the Jets to integrate their next prospect Schief and Trouba 2013-14 but that began the golden era of prospect integration up to Connor in 17-18. That group of prospects largely drove a bottom 13 NHL team to 2nd OA in the NHL and a cup contender.

That begot the dark age starting after Connor . Our drafting kind of went in the tank due to later picks, missing on picks, and more picks traded away. Stan, K-Ves, Jack,……..there was no real integration after Connor 17-18. The Next guy to come along that showed even a remote promise of playing top 6 fwd or top 4 D was Samberg in 2022-23. That was a half a decade slump and it explains why we don’t have the young pieces to get this core over the top.

However, I think starting with Perfetti we have begun to add some prospects that are not as rich and deep as our golden age but they are better than the dark ages. We have had two set backs that don’t help with McG doing the heel turn and Chaz looking like he is too fragile for Ice hockey but we still have a few interesting assets that “may be of help” over the next couple of seasons. Chipman’s panic boner doesn’t really help prospect integration as he brings in 80 year old coaches and trades draft capital to try to sell empty seats today but……..

The reality is the golden era core will age out over the next 3-5 seasons so the win now and forever strategy can only be fueled by shuffling the deck chairs for so long. The only practical way to re-build a core in Winnipeg is to hit on draft picks.

 

[surixon]

It’s an interesting debate and although there is a hint of frustration and possible cynicism in your post it’s not unfounded.

Looking back:

When the Jets arrived for the 2011-12 season Atlanta had just come off integrating Bogosian, Kane, and Burmi in their big rebuild (flop) all as 18 year olds. Zero delayed gratification for the fans hungering for the youth movement.

Then there was the lull. After Burmi it would take three seasons for the Jets to integrate their next prospect Schief and Trouba 2013-14 but that began the golden era of prospect integration up to Connor in 17-18. That group of prospects largely drove a bottom 13 NHL team to 2nd OA in the NHL and a cup contender.

That begot the dark age starting after Connor . Our drafting kind of went in the tank due to later picks, missing on picks, and more picks traded away. Stan, K-Ves, Jack,……..I think it was no real integration after Connor 17-18. The Next guy to come in that shows even a remote promise of playing top 6 fwd or top 4 D was Samberg in 2022-23. That was more a half a decade slump and it explains why we don’t have the young pieces to get this core over the top.

However, I think starting with Perfetti we have begun to add some prospects that are not as rich and deep as our golden age but they are better than the dark ages. We have had two set backs that don’t help with McG doing the heel turn and Chaz looking like he is too fragile for Ice hockey but we still have a few interesting assets that “may be of help” over the next couple of seasons. Chipman’s panic boner doesn’t really help prospect integration as he brings in 80 year old coaches and trades draft capital to try to sell empty seats today but……..

The reality is the golden age core will age out over the next 3-5 seasons so the win now and forever strategy can only be fueled by shuffling the deck chairs for so long. The only practice way to re-build a core in Winnipeg is to hit on draft picks.

Well said!

 

[WolfHouse]

Panic boner and circle jerk all in one thread. What a time to be alive!

 

[LowLefty]

I mean how many coaches out there get hired that don't buy into the vision laid out by their boss?

Clearly a coach should be given enough autonomy to do his job. But I imagine every coach who gets hired is given sub objectives by their GM that they need to hit. In terms of Arniel some of it looks to be improve the special teams and give some of the youth better roles or in the case of rookies opportunities if they show ready.

IMO, Chevy is talking youth at this point because that is what is available to him - his adds are gone, he lost a dman, and another was bought out based on contract / performance - so the holes are open. I don't see this as some grand plan that Chevy came up with - and there is no way of assuming it is long term - it looks more to me like a reaction to stuff that happened, . The Jets will probably continue to tinker to make the PO's and that may include more deadline deals that Chevy thinks will help.
I'd like to believe there is some sort of long term plan in play - but I don't buy it. This team will likely continue with the game plan that means making the PO's and if the youth can help in that, they will be a pce of the plan - if not, they will look elsewhere.

 

[LowLefty]

Regardless , this organization will never rise above mediocre.
Little has changed or will change.
The organization has gone on record stating just make the playoffs.
They have and sucked at it and will continue to suck at it.
I hope I’m wrong but I doubt it.

That a dark take but likely accurate -
IMO, it comes down to this:
Will the Jets stick to a plan that integrates more youth in the lineup - no matter what.
Or does the plan adapt to our place in the standings?
Chevy and the Jets will react to what they think they need to do to make the PO's - and they'll do that on the fly.
I don't see "Long Term planning" in the mix -

 

[WolfHouse]

IMO, Chevy is talking youth at this point because that is what is available to him - his adds are gone, he lost a dman, and another was bought out based on contract / performance - so the holes are open. I don't see this as some grand plan that Chevy came up with - and there is no way of assuming it is long term - it looks more to me like a reaction to stuff that happened, . The Jets will probably continue to tinker to make the PO's and that may include more deadline deals that Chevy thinks will help.
I'd like to believe there is some sort of long term plan in play - but I don't buy it. This team will likely continue with the game plan that means making the PO's and if the youth can help in that, they will be a pce of the plan - if not, they will look elsewhere.

Without the rumours of his failed contract offers during UFA, it would be easier to believe... but trying to keep Monahan and then offering a contract to Henrique is not integrating youth