Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[Jet]

jets just assigned Stanley to the taxi squad.
That may be a $ savings thing or it may be signs that Beaulieu or Die is our motto.
if it's the latter, i'll have to stop watching games for a bit. it's just maddening.

Stanley has warts, but the dude's done a pretty good job in moving the puck. some of his passes have been really nice.
Beaulieu's contribution yesterday? killing momentum by flipping the puck from the neutral zone OVER the glass behind Ottawa's goalie.

Haha you're not stopping watching games - so dramatic Mr. Jarvenpaa

 

[HannuJ]

Haha you're not stopping watching games - so dramatic Mr. Jarvenpaa

it's a weird thing.
schedulewise, i can watch all non-west coast games. i'm unemployed (thank you, COVID), my wife works evenings 3 days a week.

but i have no qualms with missing a game when there's something else. i'll easily watch a Raptors' game instead. or WandaVision. that's pretty great.

 

[Jet]

it's a weird thing.
schedulewise, i can watch all non-west coast games. i'm unemployed (thank you, COVID), my wife works evenings 3 days a week.

but i have no qualms with missing a game when there's something else. i'll easily watch a Raptors' game instead. or WandaVision. that's pretty great.

Crazy - I can't miss a game (even if I watch afterwards). Even when they ruin my night - the Calgary loss pissed me off WAY more than the loss last night.

 

[Whileee]

The problem with the Heinola or Samberg over Beaulieu argument is Tucker Poolman. Unless we keep doing the 11/7 thing, which I do not like because for this corps to be effective they need stability, there isn't that extra spot for them. Other than that, I agree with you.

We know that Stanley is going to be the scratch though, as Maurice has already shown his cards.

At this point you could scratch Beaulieu and Stanley and do this...

Morrissey-DeMelo
Forbort-Pionk
Heinola (Samberg)-Poolman

You'd have a hard time convincing me the Jets would be worse than with Beaulieu in the line-up, and they might actually be better. Heinola might give them some high end puck movement and offense from the 3rd pair, whereas Samberg could give them a shutdown D with PK contribution.

 

[HannuJ]

Crazy - I can't miss a game (even if I watch afterwards). Even when they ruin my night - the Calgary loss pissed me off WAY more than the loss last night.

oh yeah. i'm a more reasonable fan, i guess? the 10 PM EST game last week, tied at 2nd intermission, i shut off. bed was more important.
if the quality was better, i'd stick it through. if the coaching gave me confidence, i'd stick it through.
i was literally coming on HF to post "watch, the Sens will tie it up" after BooBoo put the puck over the glass.

 

[HannuJ]

At this point you could scratch Beaulieu and Stanley and do this...

Morrissey-DeMelo
Forbort-Pionk
Heinola (Samberg)-Poolman

You'd have a hard time convincing me the Jets would be worse than with Beaulieu in the line-up, and they might actually be better. Heinola might give them some high end puck movement and offense from the 3rd pair, whereas Samberg could give them a shutdown D with PK contribution.

if only those were the pronouns that could make decisions

 

[Heldig]

At this point you could scratch Beaulieu and Stanley and do this...

Morrissey-DeMelo
Forbort-Pionk
Heinola (Samberg)-Poolman

You'd have a hard time convincing me the Jets would be worse than with Beaulieu in the line-up, and they might actually be better. Heinola might give them some high end puck movement and offense from the 3rd pair, whereas Samberg could give them a shutdown D with PK contribution.

Sad to say, because Morrissey was trending as a dominate #2...that 1st pairing may be the worst in the league.

 

[snowkiddin]

Also at this point we are far enough into the season that you may as well not play Heinola and just let his ELC slide. I’d like Samberg to get some action but it is what it is

 

[Whileee]

Sad to say, because Morrissey was trending as a dominate #2...that 1st pairing may be the worst in the league.

That's fine, make them the second pairing. But Morrissey needs a consistent and effective partner for a stretch to try to get him closer to what he was a couple of seasons ago.

 

[WpgSteve]

I'd agree with a lot of your assessment. The way Pionk is playing right now, I think he should get more than Morrissey when it is time to renegotiate. He's very intelligent with the puck, is generally in a good position to support the puck, or his d-partner, and our most dangerous defenseman in the offensive zone. If he gets PP1 from Morrissey, I think it's a no brainer.

I agree that Pionk has been our best defenceman. The problem with using Morrisey's contact as a comparable is that he's been playing like a $3M defenseman for some time. I'd still give Pionk Morrisey's contract given how he's played for us and the lack of other options, but I doubt he gets that on a deeper team.

Gauging defenseman is tricky. Morrisey and Trouba were clear 1Ds together, but have struggled apart. Chariot looks like a capable 1D in Montreal while lots of fans thought he was bottom pairing material here. Outside of a handful of players who will succeed no matter how they are used, it is difficult to know whether a defenseman will be able to succeed in a different role.

Different knowledgeable posters on here will often disagree on defenseman performance in a given game. It shows how hard it is to guage performance. Personally, I'm impressed if the player can move the puck effectively, doesn't commit stupid turnovers and protects the net. I've given up on offense, but some offense from the blue line is likely a must have for a contender.

Mediocre defenceman can often develop into effective top defenders with the right useage and development. I think the Jets are on the right track to getting something at least effective after our defence blew up a couple of years ago. I'd love to add a 1RD if available, but wouldn't force a risky trade if not. We can keep working with what we have and hope someone is able to grow into an impact player.

I disagree with rushing Heinola or Samberg in now. Even if they are better than some of our current players (a big if IMO), rushing them could hold them back long term. There are also cap and XD considerations. Its been fun having something to watch, but I dont think we should invest many future assets to this COVID season.

 

[voyageur]

That's fine, make them the second pairing. But Morrissey needs a consistent and effective partner for a stretch to try to get him closer to what he was a couple of seasons ago.

Everyone says that. But I also think there is something different about Morrissey in general from 2 years ago. Maybe it has to do with the A he is wearing. Then there is the no Buff factor. Morrissey is relied on to be the offensive leader of this team now, as opposed to the defensive leader. And maybe his mindset has changed. Maybe it changed with his injury last year. But he's not as physical as he used to be, at all, which may be a conservation method. He's shying away from blocking shots too on the PK. With Maurice choosing Forbort and Pionk as his shutdown pair, tied to Lowry, that says a lot. I look at the opening scoring chance Calgary got against us. It was Morrissey being outskated by Backlund, straight up the gut, that led to a 2-1 that Beaulieu had to try to defend. He left Poolman alone to break up a 2-1 against Ottawa. I know Maurice is not coaching the team to give up odd man rushes, so there is something just off about Josh to start the year. Luckily the talent is in the toolbox, and a good stretch will make a bad stretch forgettable.

But I don't think you can throw shade on every other player, when Morrissey has the worst GA/60 ES on the defensive squad (-Niku) and the worst metric of all our d-men on the PK. There's something going on.

 

[LowLefty]

That's fine, make them the second pairing. But Morrissey needs a consistent and effective partner for a stretch to try to get him closer to what he was a couple of seasons ago.

Yes, he does -
There is a gapping hole in our D and it's a true #1
Without a top pair that can munch big minutes and take care of things in our end when needed the most, we have a below average D - and Maurice knows it.
When I look at the bottom 4, I want a mix of puck movers and heavy bodies. We have the puck movers, especially when you add Heinola but we are missing the heavy guys that know how to be heavy. Samberg will help here - hopefully. This is also why Mo is hesitant in dropping booboo out of the mix (right or wrong).

Morrissey - XXXXX

Bottom 4 -
I'd work Heinola, Samberg, Demelo, Poolman into the bottom 4
I'd move Pionk to help fill XXXXX -
Heinola is the 2nd pairing puck mover (replacing Pionk)
Bottom pairing is pure defensive

Why are Samberg and Heinola not in the line up?
IMO, we don't need another lightweight - I think Heinola replaced Pionk at some point - meanwhile, Heinola gets more time to learn the NHL game.
I think he'd love to work Samberg in now but the guy needs some time to adjust to the NHL speed and grind - especially if he is asked to play a heavy game against Pro's. Samberg, even more than Heinola, needs this time to prepare for the wear and tear his role will be subject to - I think it makes sense to give him some time on the Moose - regardless of how much he might add now (if he was ready).

 

[10Ducky10]

Slamberg will get huge minutes as will Heinola which is exactly what they need.
Slamberg playing on the right side?
Good idea and the Moose is the place to see if he can handle it or not. A JMo-Slamberg pairing would be ideal if Slamberg can play that side.
I just hate that Boolow is dressing every goddam game.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Yes, he does -
There is a gapping hole in our D and it's a true #1
Without a top pair that can munch big minutes and take care of things in our end when needed the most, we have a below average D - and Maurice knows it.
When I look at the bottom 4, I want a mix of puck movers and heavy bodies. We have the puck movers, especially when you add Heinola but we are missing the heavy guys that know how to be heavy. Samberg will help here - hopefully. This is also why Mo is hesitant in dropping booboo out of the mix (right or wrong).

Morrissey - XXXXX

Bottom 4 -
I'd work Heinola, Samberg, Demelo, Poolman into the bottom 4
I'd move Pionk to help fill XXXXX -
Heinola is the 2nd pairing puck mover (replacing Pionk)
Bottom pairing is pure defensive

Why are Samberg and Heinola not in the line up?
IMO, we don't need another lightweight - I think Heinola replaced Pionk at some point - meanwhile, Heinola gets more time to learn the NHL game.
I think he'd love to work Samberg in now but the guy needs some time to adjust to the NHL speed and grind - especially if he is asked to play a heavy game against Pro's. Samberg, even more than Heinola, needs this time to prepare for the wear and tear his role will be subject to - I think it makes sense to give him some time on the Moose - regardless of how much he might add now (if he was ready).

Lightweight shmightweight the only thing that matters is getting the job done. Pionk gets it done Heinola gets it done beaulieu does not.

 

[LowLefty]

Lightweight shmightweight the only thing that matters is getting the job done. Pionk gets it done Heinola gets it done beaulieu does not.

Yes, getting it done is what it's all about -
Remember Buff, Chiarot, Trouba? They had a mean steak in them that made them very difficult to play against - few teams were resorting to dump / chase / cycle against that lot - now they do it as part of the game plan know we get hemmed in very easily.
I think it something to do with the angry beef we had back there - but that's just my opinion.

 

[Ducky10]

Not sure if this belongs in the D thread or the coaching thread but they are connected.

 

[truck]

The only hope the Jets have of icing an average or better D group, is a breakout performance by Heinola and/or Samberg - that solidifies them as plus players in the top 4.

Mo doesn't appear capable of identifying the team's current issues and he isn't willing to give youth a shot, so I have little hope that they'll turn this around.

 

[Ducky10]

Not dropping Boo Boo out of the mix is most definitely wrong. His size or "heaviness" has not done a thing to change his lack of effectiveness. He doesn't have the ability at this level, especially with the minutes he's playing and the opposition he's tasked against. It begins and ends there.

 

[Ducky10]

The only hope the Jets have of icing an average or better D group, is a breakout performance by Heinola and/or Samberg - that solidifies them as plus players in the top 4.

Mo isn't willing to take that shot.

Which even if it doesn't lead to the playoffs this season will pay huge dividends for next season. Maurice knows he's in survival mode so he's going with what he thinks are his best odds, which despite not working by almost every measure, still won't make him change his mind. Blind spots are a bitch.

 

[LowLefty]

Not dropping Boo Boo out of the mix is most definitely wrong. His size or "heaviness" has not done a thing to change his lack of effectiveness. He doesn't have the ability at this level, especially with the minutes he's playing and the opposition he's tasked against. It begins and ends there.

I agree Booboo is not the player that will solve our problems if you think heavy / tough is a need - but he's probably the best we have at this point and it's why Mo has left him in there.
I'm not advocating for him to be part of the blueline - I'm only suggesting why Maurice might have him in there.
I'd play Stanley over him in a heart beat -

 

[Heldig]

Not sure if this belongs in the D thread or the coaching thread but they are connected.

View attachment 396308

That is frightening. And embarrassing.

How in the world does the coaching staff still have a job?

 

[Ducky10]

Yes, getting it done is what it's all about -
Remember Buff, Chiarot, Trouba? They had a mean steak in them that made them very difficult to play against - few teams were resorting to dump / chase / cycle against that lot - now they do it as part of the game plan know we get hemmed in very easily.
I think it something to do with the angry beef we had back there - but that's just my opinion.

I get what you're saying to some extent, but I don't know what beef has to do with anything when you're getting pummelled in scoring chances when you're on the ice. That didn't happen to Buff and Trouba, the beef, especially with Buff just added to being already effective players. It was just a bonus.

 

[Ducky10]

That

That is frightening. And embarrassing.

How in the world does the coaching staff still have a job?

That's the million dollar question. But this kind of stuff is meaningless to Maurice, because we don't see what's really happening.

 

[LowLefty]

I get what you're saying to some extent, but I don't know what beef has to do with anything when you're getting pummelled in scoring chances when you're on the ice. That didn't happen to Buff and Trouba, the beef, especially with Buff just added to being already effective players. It was just a bonus.

Size plays a roll in separating player from puck - which will impact scoring chances against if you can regain possession and turn up the other way. We seem to spend too much time in our end - I'm suggesting size might be able to help us with that (help, not solve)
You need the skill as well - I'm not suggesting otherwise - that bunch back then had it. But size helps and I think it's more than a bonus - it's part of what made them effective.

 

[Daximus]

Size plays a roll in separating player from puck - which will impact scoring chances against if you can regain possession and turn up the other way. We seem to spend too much time in our end - I'm suggesting size might be able to help us with that (help, not solve)
You need the skill as well - I'm not suggesting otherwise - that bunch back then had it. But size helps and I think it's more than a bonus - it's part of what made them effective.

Yeah ideally you have a good skating puck mover and a bigger defence first guy on every pairing. Even more ideal is a bigger good skating puck mover. We really need to give Heinola and Samberg a shot. At best we turn this sinking ship around, at worst they suck and we at least know what we have in them and can look at other options.