OT: Winnipeg ICE sold - Moving to Wenatchee, Washington renamed Wenatchee Wild

[nobody imp0rtant]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/winnipeg-jets/news/wenatchee-wild-gm-its-not-going-to-be-easy-but-well-figure-it-out

On Wednesday, the WHL's Board of Governors concluded its annual general meeting, to which a number of broad topics were addressed. Wenatchee's acceptance into the league was one of the top priorities. The relocation was approved last Friday, while the Wild were formally welcomed as the sixth member of the United States Division of the league's Western Conference at the meeting.

The team will play out of the 4,300-seat Town Toyota Center, to which the Wild have called home since 2008.

Also of note is the fact that Winnipeg ICE GM Matt Cockell and more notably, head coach James Patrick would not be making the move with their players to Washington.

Looks like they wanted a clean break from the past. Patrick is a bit of a surprise with his track record but as we saw from that podcast where he was slamming the Jets, maybe there's a personality issue that the new owners wanted nothing to do with.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Looks like they wanted a clean break from the past. Patrick is a bit of a surprise with his track record but as we saw from that podcast where he was slamming the Jets, maybe there's a personality issue that the new owners wanted nothing to do with.

Unless told otherwise, I would assume that Patrick, a 60 year old hockey lifer who has coached at the NHL level and has been a very successful WHL head coach in his hometown wanted nothing to do with uprooting himself to small town Wenatchee at this point in his life. I highly doubt that whoever Wenatchee hires will be remotely close to Patrick's level of ability and accomplishment.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Unless told otherwise, I would assume that Patrick, a 60 year old hockey lifer who has coached at the NHL level and has been a very successful WHL head coach in his hometown wanted nothing to do with uprooting himself to small town Wenatchee at this point in his life. I highly doubt that whoever Wenatchee hires will be remotely close to Patrick's level of ability and accomplishment.

I'm just going by the tweet in the article that said "The Wild will not be retaining his services". Sure, there's some wiggle room there for interpretation, but wording like that makes it sound like a team decision.

 

[Guardian17]

 

[jetsmooseice]

I'm just going by the tweet in the article that said "The Wild will not be retaining his services". Sure, there's some wiggle room there for interpretation, but wording like that makes it sound like a team decision.

I wouldn't say that's conclusive, they may not be retaining his services because he told them no.

 

[snowkiddin]

Hey, at least Matt Cockell got “fired”

 

[jetsmooseice]

Hey, at least Matt Cockell got “fired”

He went 166-49-6-2 during his tenure as ICE GM. Not bad.

Incidentally, I see the ICE store is selling off the rest of their merch. Half off, just like the end of season sale last year, haha. But this time jerseys are included so there's that. I have a pile of the stuff but I'm not sure I'll be adding to it as I don't know when I'd actually wear it again.

 

[snowkiddin]

He went 166-49-6-2 during his tenure as ICE GM. Not bad.

Incidentally, I see the ICE store is selling off the rest of their merch. Half off, just like the end of season sale last year, haha. But this time jerseys are included so there's that. I have a pile of the stuff but I'm not sure I'll be adding to it as I don't know when I'd actually wear it again.

Stuck his head up his own ass when it came to making a run for the championship though and that’s an unforgivable mistake — and he made it twice!

Interesting about the merch. I wouldn’t mind a jersey, but it would probably just make me sad to wear.

 

[jimsabo21]

Guys bought a team and tried really hard to get someone to build them a rink for free then be able to own it outright after.

They came at the Urban reserve group with a plan. That plan was you guys get the funding and build a 5000 seat arena complex with 2 side rinks at a cost of about 75 million then hand it over to us because we know how to run a business and you don't and we will pay you a fee after.

I know they run crappy call centers but these guys seem like really slimy car salesmen

Frankly, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I haven't been in HF boards for a while and came to check some Jets trade rumours. This actually angered me.

Greg Fettes is a close personal friend of mine.

He paid out of his own pocket for all the renos at U of M which the University benefits from. They absolutely had plans to build a new rink. They didn't even make it through one season before Covid cancelled (March 2020). The 2nd season was cancelled altogether. The third season was near normal (aside from the mask mandates and vaccine QR code checks).

Here's the truth: Construction cost for a new facilty rose from ~45mm (pre-Covid) to nearly ~70mm (post covid). Interest rates went from 2.5% to nearly 6.5% on commercial projects. At 70% financing, the project went from:

Pre-Covid
45MM facility @ 30% equity = $13,500,000 cash
Annual carrying costs @ 2% = $650,000 per year

Post Covid
70MM facility @ 30% equity = $21,000,000 cash
Annual Carrying cost @ 6.5% = $3,200,000 per year

All of a sudden, you need 21mm in cash (instead of the 13mm) and the carrying costs on a new facility jumped to $3,200,000 per season!

Since you're so involved with the Urban Reserve, you must know that none of the land will ever be sold. There was no way for Fettes to buy the land. The Urban Reserve will own everything on that property and lease it to owners. It's nonsense to think that anyone will build a sports facility with private money on land they don't own. They could never *sell it* to anyone. The plan was a long term lease if it came to fruition.

They also had another location (near Route 90) where they had an option on land and explored every option to make it work but the costs of building post-Covid made it impossible.

Lastly, the reason it all collapsed so quickly was because they had a major plan to blow out a wall of Max Bell, build a half bowl, new concessions, washrooms, observation area. The price tag was $20,000,000 and was fully financed by the Ice owners. It would have brought capacity to 3800. The U of M was 100% onboard. They presented this to the WHL board as a last ditch alternative to a new building. The WHL formally rejected this proposal only 14 days ago stating it didn't meet their standard of 5000 seats. That was the nail in the coffin.

This is the true story of the Winnipeg Ice.

Fettes is an incredibly generous man and has given so much to this city. There isn't a cause or fundraising drive that happens in this town without him being a major donor. They have 25,000 employees and are by far the largest contact centre in the world with offices is dozens of countries. He chooses to make Winnipeg home and keeps in 247 InTouch headquarters in Winnipeg.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Frankly, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I haven't been in HF boards for a while and came to check some Jets trade rumours. This actually angered me.

Greg Fettes is a close personal friend of mine.

He paid out of his own pocket for all the renos at U of M which the University benefits from. They absolutely had plans to build a new rink. They didn't even make it through one season before Covid cancelled (March 2020). The 2nd season was cancelled altogether. The third season was near normal (aside from the mask mandates and vaccine QR code checks).

Here's the truth: Construction cost for a new facilty rose from ~45mm (pre-Covid) to nearly ~70mm (post covid). Interest rates went from 2.5% to nearly 6.5% on commercial projects. At 70% financing, the project went from:

Pre-Covid
45MM facility @ 30% equity = $13,500,000 cash
Annual carrying costs @ 2% = $650,000 per year

Post Covid
70MM facility @ 30% equity = $21,000,000 cash
Annual Carrying cost @ 6.5% = $3,200,000 per year

All of a sudden, you need 21mm in cash (instead of the 13mm) and the carrying costs on a new facility jumped to $3,200,000 per season!

Since you're so involved with the Urban Reserve, you must know that none of the land will ever be sold. There was no way for Fettes to buy the land. The Urban Reserve will own everything on that property and lease it to owners. It's nonsense to think that anyone will build a sports facility with private money on land they don't own. They could never *sell it* to anyone. The plan was a long term lease if it came to fruition.

They also had another location (near Route 90) where they had an option on land and explored every option to make it work but the costs of building post-Covid made it impossible.

Lastly, the reason it all collapsed so quickly was because they had a major plan to blow out a wall of Max Bell, build a half bowl, new concessions, washrooms, observation area. The price tag was $20,000,000 and was fully financed by the Ice owners. It would have brought capacity to 3800. The U of M was 100% onboard. They presented this to the WHL board as a last ditch alternative to a new building. The WHL formally rejected this proposal only 14 days ago stating it didn't meet their standard of 5000 seats. That was the nail in the coffin.

This is the true story of the Winnipeg Ice.

Fettes is an incredibly generous man and has given so much to this city. There isn't a cause or fundraising drive that happens in this town without him being a major donor. They have 25,000 employees and are by far the largest contact centre in the world with offices is dozens of countries. He chooses to make Winnipeg home and keeps in 247 InTouch headquarters in Winnipeg.

Thank you for this explanation. With this one post you have delivered more substance on the ICE than every Winnipeg media outlet combined up to now.

I am not at all surprised to see the huge jump in construction costs. Frankly even $70 million seems a bit low as an estimate considering Steinbach's new 2,400 seat MJHL arena is budgeted at $60 million although I realize that includes a smaller community rink and a gym as well. But what I did not realize was the double-whammy impact of increased construction costs combined with higher interest rates. Going from $650K to $3.2MM a year in carrying costs on a new rink is clearly untenable for an operation with the margins of a junior hockey team.

The real gut punch here is the WHL's unwillingness to entertain the great idea of expanding the Wayne Fleming Arena. With a moderate expansion of the bowl they could have addressed the biggest shortcomings of Wayne Fleming Arena (low seating capacity, lack of team facilities, lack of fan facilities like washrooms and and concessions, lack of premium seating) and set up the team for long-term success in what is a great location. It would have been a huge win for the U of M and the Bison sports program too. This confirms that Fettes and Winnipeg in general got absolutely screwed by the WHL and I would be very reluctant to ever support a WHL team again in this city.

Does Fettes intend to carry on with his MJHL teams? I realize it's a far cry from the WHL but I always thought that with a little effort, a fanbase could be carved out as we see in the rural locations. If the Blues set up at Wayne Fleming Arena I'd be a regular for sure.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Lastly, the reason it all collapsed so quickly was because they had a major plan to blow out a wall of Max Bell, build a half bowl, new concessions, washrooms, observation area. The price tag was $20,000,000 and was fully financed by the Ice owners. It would have brought capacity to 3800. The U of M was 100% onboard. They presented this to the WHL board as a last ditch alternative to a new building. The WHL formally rejected this proposal only 14 days ago stating it didn't meet their standard of 5000 seats. That was the nail in the coffin.

I guess Wenatchee is on the clock to add 700 seats to their arena.

 

[Guardian17]

Frankly, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I haven't been in HF boards for a while and came to check some Jets trade rumours. This actually angered me.

Greg Fettes is a close personal friend of mine.

He paid out of his own pocket for all the renos at U of M which the University benefits from. They absolutely had plans to build a new rink. They didn't even make it through one season before Covid cancelled (March 2020). The 2nd season was cancelled altogether. The third season was near normal (aside from the mask mandates and vaccine QR code checks).

Here's the truth: Construction cost for a new facilty rose from ~45mm (pre-Covid) to nearly ~70mm (post covid). Interest rates went from 2.5% to nearly 6.5% on commercial projects. At 70% financing, the project went from:

Pre-Covid
45MM facility @ 30% equity = $13,500,000 cash
Annual carrying costs @ 2% = $650,000 per year

Post Covid
70MM facility @ 30% equity = $21,000,000 cash
Annual Carrying cost @ 6.5% = $3,200,000 per year

All of a sudden, you need 21mm in cash (instead of the 13mm) and the carrying costs on a new facility jumped to $3,200,000 per season!

Since you're so involved with the Urban Reserve, you must know that none of the land will ever be sold. There was no way for Fettes to buy the land. The Urban Reserve will own everything on that property and lease it to owners. It's nonsense to think that anyone will build a sports facility with private money on land they don't own. They could never *sell it* to anyone. The plan was a long term lease if it came to fruition.

They also had another location (near Route 90) where they had an option on land and explored every option to make it work but the costs of building post-Covid made it impossible.

Lastly, the reason it all collapsed so quickly was because they had a major plan to blow out a wall of Max Bell, build a half bowl, new concessions, washrooms, observation area. The price tag was $20,000,000 and was fully financed by the Ice owners. It would have brought capacity to 3800. The U of M was 100% onboard. They presented this to the WHL board as a last ditch alternative to a new building. The WHL formally rejected this proposal only 14 days ago stating it didn't meet their standard of 5000 seats. That was the nail in the coffin.

This is the true story of the Winnipeg Ice.

Fettes is an incredibly generous man and has given so much to this city. There isn't a cause or fundraising drive that happens in this town without him being a major donor. They have 25,000 employees and are by far the largest contact centre in the world with offices is dozens of countries. He chooses to make Winnipeg home and keeps in 247 InTouch headquarters in Winnipeg.

Thank you for explaining the situation.

 

[jimsabo21]

I guess Wenatchee is on the clock to add 700 seats to their arena.

Most WHL teams didn't particularly like (or need) Winnipeg in their loop. It was the furthest *Eastern* destination. Wenatchee is within a reasonable driving radius of 8 WHL teams. Aside from Brandon, Winnipeg is 6-12 hrs away from their own division rivals.

Unless it was going to be a brand new facility and a flagship franchise, I don't think the WHL executive had much incentive to keep Winnipeg. The reason given was the seating capacity. In reality, it's a mix of all the above.

Instead of snark, why not contribute to the conversation?

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Most WHL teams didn't particularly like (or need) Winnipeg in their loop. It was the furthest *Eastern* destination. Wenatchee is within a reasonable driving radius of 8 WHL teams. Aside from Brandon, Winnipeg is 6-12 hrs away from their own division rivals.

Unless it was going to be a brand new facility and a flagship franchise, I don't think the WHL executive had much incentive to keep Winnipeg. The reason given was the seating capacity. In reality, it's a mix of all the above.

Instead of snark, why not contribute to the conversation?

I have contributed. Many times. You don't like what I post, put me on your f***ing Ignore list.

 

[jimsabo21]

Does Fettes intend to carry on with his MJHL teams? I realize it's a far cry from the WHL but I always thought that with a little effort, a fanbase could be carved out as we see in the rural locations. If the Blues set up at Wayne Fleming Arena I'd be a regular for sure.

I have no idea his future plans for the Blues / Freeze to be honest.

He had a big vision for hockey in general. He was an original partner in The Rink which was the first 100% privately financed hockey facility in Winnipeg. They brought in RHA to play in the CSSHL (Elite Academy Hockey) which allows local elite bantam players to stay home rather than go to Shattuck St Mary's / Northern Alberta Extreme / etc ... He started Manitoba Junior Ice which is the largest spring hockey organization in Manitoba. He's also owner of Play Hockey which is the largest hockey tournament event provider in the world. They operate tournaments all over North America and Europe. The WHL franchise was a big part of that vision. It really is a shame it didn't work out.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I love the constant reminders of your loge seats

They're just a bad memory now. I wasted far too much money on those.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Frankly, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I haven't been in HF boards for a while and came to check some Jets trade rumours. This actually angered me.

Greg Fettes is a close personal friend of mine.

He paid out of his own pocket for all the renos at U of M which the University benefits from. They absolutely had plans to build a new rink. They didn't even make it through one season before Covid cancelled (March 2020). The 2nd season was cancelled altogether. The third season was near normal (aside from the mask mandates and vaccine QR code checks).

Here's the truth: Construction cost for a new facilty rose from ~45mm (pre-Covid) to nearly ~70mm (post covid). Interest rates went from 2.5% to nearly 6.5% on commercial projects. At 70% financing, the project went from:

Pre-Covid
45MM facility @ 30% equity = $13,500,000 cash
Annual carrying costs @ 2% = $650,000 per year

Post Covid
70MM facility @ 30% equity = $21,000,000 cash
Annual Carrying cost @ 6.5% = $3,200,000 per year

All of a sudden, you need 21mm in cash (instead of the 13mm) and the carrying costs on a new facility jumped to $3,200,000 per season!

Since you're so involved with the Urban Reserve, you must know that none of the land will ever be sold. There was no way for Fettes to buy the land. The Urban Reserve will own everything on that property and lease it to owners. It's nonsense to think that anyone will build a sports facility with private money on land they don't own. They could never *sell it* to anyone. The plan was a long term lease if it came to fruition.

They also had another location (near Route 90) where they had an option on land and explored every option to make it work but the costs of building post-Covid made it impossible.

Lastly, the reason it all collapsed so quickly was because they had a major plan to blow out a wall of Max Bell, build a half bowl, new concessions, washrooms, observation area. The price tag was $20,000,000 and was fully financed by the Ice owners. It would have brought capacity to 3800. The U of M was 100% onboard. They presented this to the WHL board as a last ditch alternative to a new building. The WHL formally rejected this proposal only 14 days ago stating it didn't meet their standard of 5000 seats. That was the nail in the coffin.

This is the true story of the Winnipeg Ice.

Fettes is an incredibly generous man and has given so much to this city. There isn't a cause or fundraising drive that happens in this town without him being a major donor. They have 25,000 employees and are by far the largest contact centre in the world with offices is dozens of countries. He chooses to make Winnipeg home and keeps in 247 InTouch headquarters in Winnipeg.

We were not interested in "selling the land" we wanted to develop a multi use facility and they approached at first as a tenet and partner. The costs were in excess of 100 million and we were willing to pay our share as long as we could share in the money made from the facility and we would also back the loses from the facility in equal partnership. I believe if we made a fair agreement, we could have went to all 3 levels of governement and secured help as well. They had no intention of allowing us an equal say in the facility and it was never a negotiation but a dictation.

They may be the greatest guys in the history of the earth with the best place on the planet to work but they really tried to get the sweetest deal from us they could and were not above trying to strong us to get it.

Anyways the team is gone and I am not sure how anyone can suggest that they are some kind of great owners etc..teams in much smaller markets still exist and thrive because of the relationships they make, I think if they had taken that approach we would still have a WHL team today

 

[jetsmooseice]

They may be the greatest guys in the history of the earth with the best place on the planet to work but they really tried to get the sweetest deal from us they could and were not above trying to strong us to get it.

I'm obviously not privy to the details here but how can you call their negotiating positions an attempt at strong [arming] you? They didn't really have any leverage in this situation, I suspect all the First Nations interests need is a simple, cheap two or maybe three rink complex to host amateur hockey, tournaments, etc. It was Fettes and Cockell who needed the big $90+ million deluxe arena with spectator seating and amenities for the WHL.

That is a good point about teams in small markets existing and thriving because of the relationships they make, though.

 

[roccerfeller]

It would have brought capacity to 3800. The U of M was 100% onboard. They presented this to the WHL board as a last ditch alternative to a new building. The WHL formally rejected this proposal only 14 days ago stating it didn't meet their standard of 5000 seats. That was the nail in the coffin.

^ this would have been the most ideal scenario


And the new relocated rink holds 4300? In a tiny market?? 3800 and 4300 are closer than 4300 and 5000. “Cutoff”.

What is up with the WHL and their goalposts moving?? Did they end up having a bone to pick with the ice owners or what

Having a team in Winnipeg just made sense in my mind but oh well. It sounds like every avenue was explored.

 

[tbcwpg]

^ this would have been the most ideal scenario


And the new relocated rink holds 4300? In a tiny market?? 3800 and 4300 are closer than 4300 and 5000. “Cutoff”.

What is up with the WHL and their goalposts moving?? Did they end up having a bone to pick with the ice owners or what

Having a team in Winnipeg just made sense in my mind but oh well. It sounds like every avenue was explored.

For the WHL, having a team in Winnipeg is like the AHL having a team in St. John's. Sounds fine but it's so far East of most of the league it's not really worth it. Especially if you're not getting any more fans than you would in a closer market.

 

[roccerfeller]

For the WHL, having a team in Winnipeg is like the AHL having a team in St. John's. Sounds fine but it's so far East of most of the league it's not really worth it. Especially if you're not getting any more fans than you would in a closer market.

That’s a good way of framing it

A shame, it would be a good city for the league. Also makes sense why they relocated all the way out west

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

^ this would have been the most ideal scenario


And the new relocated rink holds 4300? In a tiny market?? 3800 and 4300 are closer than 4300 and 5000. “Cutoff”.

What is up with the WHL and their goalposts moving?? Did they end up having a bone to pick with the ice owners or what

Having a team in Winnipeg just made sense in my mind but oh well. It sounds like every avenue was explored.

i would say that nails it. I think the commish was pissed off that they did not deliver on promises made when they took the team out of Cranbrook. And full disclosure, I'm not personal friends with the former owner, I haven't sat on any committees related to this and in all likelihood I would never have attended an ICE game because they didn't have any loge seats like I'm accustomed to.

 

[RetroWinnipeg]

For some particular reason, TSN1 is replaying the Winnipeg Ice vs. Regina Pats game from March 3rd tonight at 6:30.

 

[jetsmooseice]

i would say that nails it. I think the commish was pissed off that they did not deliver on promises made when they took the team out of Cranbrook. And full disclosure, I'm not personal friends with the former owner, I haven't sat on any committees related to this and in all likelihood I would never have attended an ICE game because they didn't have any loge seats like I'm accustomed to.

Point of privilege; the ICE actually did have loge seats. They were awesome, they were practically right above the ice. The sightlines were spectacular from there.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Point of privilege; the ICE actually did have loge seats. They were awesome, they were practically right above the ice. The sightlines were spectacular from there.

Yes, did have. I was talking about going forward. If the WHL had approved their plan, those would have gone away when they knocked down that wall to put in more seating.