Prospect Info: Wings Prospect Discussion

[Run the Jewels]

No, not after seeing how long it took AlJo to get to the NHL. Also, Andrew Gibson is Nashville's problem now. I consider him a hit for bringing us a more tantalizing prospect in Kiskinnen.

But our NA scouts didn't draft Gibson as trade bait, so it makes sense to consider his development within the context of our NA scouts thinking he was worth drafting in the 2nd round.

 

[RabidBadger]

But our NA scouts didn't draft Gibson as trade bait, so it makes sense to consider his development within the context of our NA scouts thinking he was worth drafting in the 2nd round.

I get your point but I can't bring myself to give a shit about a guy we traded.

 

[lilidk]

We don't know what Plante could become, but his numbers are similar to Zegras.

 

[deca guard]

Red Wings Prospects

@LGRWProspects
“With that assist, Axel Sandin-Pellikka is now the sole record holder for the most points ever (twelve) by a junior defender in the Swedish Championship playoffs” #LGRW

 

[cvaicunas]

Plante is such a bust, 0 NHL games.

@Run the Jewels: Congrats you are slowly reaching Shanahanman level

This comment sucks

 

[heyfolks]

With Dylan James heading back to North Dakota for his Senior season, it seems safe to say he's no longer a DRW prospect. His 0.53 PPG average over his Sophomore and Junior seasons should have tempered expectations, but with him likely hitting free agency next spring this marks the end of the road for him as a prospect.

So a quick recap on our second round draft picks out of NA since Steve Yzerman took over as GM.

2019
54th OA - Robert Mastrosiimone: gone

2020
55th OA - Cross Hanas: AHL, 0 NHL games

2021
36th OA - Shai Buium: AHL 0 NHL games

2022
40th OA - Dylan James: gone

2023
41st OA - Trey Augustine: NCAA, 0 NHL games
42nd OA - Andrew Gibson: OHL, 0 NHL games
47th OA - Brady Cleveland: NCAA, 0 NHL games

2024
47th OA - Max Plante: NCAA, 0 NHL games

If you had to bet on any of these guys having a solid NHL career, the safe bet is probably Augustine, followed by Plante. There are a lot of misses with what is quality draft capital.

I won't argue with 2022 and older. That said, you just can't toss 23 and 24 on to this pile. 1) goalies take 5-8 years. 2) BC turned 20 five days ago, was caught up in some BS in WI and was always a project player draft to fill a need for which most Wings fan clamor for weekly. 3) Gibson? As said, traded so not sure why he is in your post. That said, we was a top pair D man for CA in the World Juniors. 3a) Kisskinen had a solid WJ and season. He's 19 6'2" 200 lbs and had 44 points in 46 games. 4) Plante had a great rookie season in a League where the average player is 22. Sure he has a face you just want to punch, but that may be part of his charm in the League.

Links below but yeah, none of these 2nd rounders have player a game in the NHL. I will add a bit more color here.... only 34% of 2nd round picks every play in the NHL.

NHL Draft Pick Probabilities

Whenever an NHL draft is approaching, the excitement level and hype around the players go through the roof. It’s an exciting time for sure but it seems like most people don’t have realistic expectations when it comes to the draft. To help with that, I decided to

dobberprospects.com

Jesse Kiiskinen Stats And News

Get all the latest stats, news, videos, and more on Jesse Kiiskinen.

www.nhl.com

Predators Could Already Regret Offseason Red Wings Trade

The Nashville Predators traded Jesse Kiiskinen and a second-round pick to the Detroit Red Wings for Andrew Gibson in the offseason, but are they already regretting it?

sports.yahoo.com

Red Wings Prospects Star as USA Wins World Junior Gold

Team USA makes history with an overtime victory in a WJC gold medal game littered with Detroit prospects

thehockeynews.com

Max Plante Named to 2024-25 NCHC All-Rookie Team - UMD Athletics

University of Minnesota Duluth freshman forward Max Plante was named to the 2024-25 National College Hockey Conference All-Rookie Team Tuesday, the first Bulldog

umdbulldogs.com

 

[crashmore]

With Dylan James heading back to North Dakota for his Senior season, it seems safe to say he's no longer a DRW prospect. His 0.53 PPG average over his Sophomore and Junior seasons should have tempered expectations, but with him likely hitting free agency next spring this marks the end of the road for him as a prospect.

this is the biggest disconnect between fans and reality. players going back for their senior season generally still sign with the team that hold their rights (provided the team actually wants them) -- going to free agency is the exception (happens maybe once a year across dozens of players). i remember fans stressing over not signing Carter Gylander after his junior year a couple years ago, and sure enough, he's in the system.

given that he told reporters he opted to come back over turning pro, i think he's very much still in the system. if he doesn't come to development camp maybe there's some concern, but it's wasted energy to worry about at this point.

i'd like to see some hits from the 2nd round too, but "safe to say he's no longer a prospect" is a dramatic overreaction. i only say something because i watch a fair bit of UND and he's absolutely signable -- bottom six potential, but plays a north-south game with energy and has solid touch around the net. he's still only 21, and given the mass exodus around the rest of his roster, he has a great opportunity to be one of the team's go-to guys, potentially a captain, etc., and turn pro around this time next year at 22 years old. seems pretty reasonable to me.

 

[Run the Jewels]

this is the biggest disconnect between fans and reality. players going back for their senior season generally still sign with the team that hold their rights (provided the team actually wants them) -- going to free agency is the exception (happens maybe once a year across dozens of players). i remember fans stressing over not signing Carter Gylander after his junior year a couple years ago, and sure enough, he's in the system.

given that he told reporters he opted to come back over turning pro, i think he's very much still in the system. if he doesn't come to development camp maybe there's some concern, but it's wasted energy to worry about at this point.

i'd like to see some hits from the 2nd round too, but "safe to say he's no longer a prospect" is a dramatic overreaction. i only say something because i watch a fair bit of UND and he's absolutely signable -- bottom six potential, but plays a north-south game with energy and has solid touch around the net. he's still only 21, and given the mass exodus around the rest of his roster, he has a great opportunity to be one of the team's go-to guys, potentially a captain, etc., and turn pro around this time next year at 22 years old. seems pretty reasonable to me.

0.53 point per game guy at a solid UND program should concern you. I get that it doesn't, but who is the last forward who put up 0.5ish points per game over his Sophomore and Junior seasons in the NCAA and turned into a solid prospect? Carter Mazur and Justin Abdelkader both put up 0.9 PPG and didn't return for their Senior seasons. As a Freshman, Dylan Larkin put up 1.3 PPG.

For the people who can't handle anything but sunshine blowing, I hope it works out! I truly do!

 

[wingerdinger]

0.53 point per game guy at a solid UND program should concern you. I get that it doesn't, but who is the last forward who put up 0.5ish points per game over his Sophomore and Junior seasons in the NCAA and turned into a solid prospect? Carter Mazur and Justin Abdelkader both put up 0.9 PPG and didn't return for their Senior seasons. As a Freshman, Dylan Larkin put up 1.3 PPG.

For the people who can't handle anything but sunshine blowing, I hope it works out! I truly do!

Im high on Dylan James as a checking role player it's something we dont have a tonne of in the system. He has speed to burn and if he's in the mood a real tenacity to his game. He'd be a major plus on the a PK and would take a load off Larkin and Raymond so they dont have pk as much. Which imo wore them down over the course of the season.

That said Im not going to lose any sleep if James does walk on us.

 

[Run the Jewels]

This season Ammo is right around a point per game. I was taking a look at some guys who've had PPG seasons in GR and for the most part, hitting that threshold has translated well to the NHL: Gus Nyquist, Jiri Hudler, Val Filppula all had PPG seasons and solid NHL careers. Evgeni Svechnikov had PPG-ish seasons when he was 21 -23, but injuries obviously derailed his career.

 

[newfy]

0.53 point per game guy at a solid UND program should concern you. I get that it doesn't, but who is the last forward who put up 0.5ish points per game over his Sophomore and Junior seasons in the NCAA and turned into a solid prospect? Carter Mazur and Justin Abdelkader both put up 0.9 PPG and didn't return for their Senior seasons. As a Freshman, Dylan Larkin put up 1.3 PPG.

For the people who can't handle anything but sunshine blowing, I hope it works out! I truly do!

Depends what you expect out of him. More production would be great, but it doesnt really mean he cant be a useful checker. I'm not expecting a Larkin, but maybe he becomes a Glendening type? Not pretty but a useful piece to have

This season Ammo is right around a point per game. I was taking a look at some guys who've had PPG seasons in GR and for the most part, hitting that threshold has translated well to the NHL: Gus Nyquist, Jiri Hudler, Val Filppula all had PPG seasons and solid NHL careers. Evgeni Svechnikov had PPG-ish seasons when he was 21 -23, but injuries obviously derailed his career.

I wouldnt be using guys from far back like that to gauge anything. That league has changed a lot. Look at Kasper as a rookie in the NHL vs in GR if you want to gauge it better. Its a guy that played a similar role in GR as Lombardi and Nate Dawg.

Kaspers performance should shine a pretty positive light on the other 2 going forward

 

[Pavels Dog]

0.53 point per game guy at a solid UND program should concern you. I get that it doesn't, but who is the last forward who put up 0.5ish points per game over his Sophomore and Junior seasons in the NCAA and turned into a solid prospect? Carter Mazur and Justin Abdelkader both put up 0.9 PPG and didn't return for their Senior seasons. As a Freshman, Dylan Larkin put up 1.3 PPG.

For the people who can't handle anything but sunshine blowing, I hope it works out! I truly do!

There’s probably nothing there as far as NHL potential goes, but not every prospect should be measured in PPG. Glendening didn’t score much and he’s coming up on 900 NHL games, last 4 years as a constant fixture on contenders.

 

[Winger98]

There’s probably nothing there as far as NHL potential goes, but not every prospect should be measured in PPG. Glendening didn’t score much and he’s coming up on 900 NHL games, last 4 years as a constant fixture on contenders.

Glendening really didn't produce poorly in GR. 26 in 51 games as a GR rookie out of college. I think it just shows that even low level NHL guys produce in the AHL. Look at Watson and Shine, who produce well in the AHL but are 4th liners at best on the Wings.

 

[crashmore]

0.53 point per game guy at a solid UND program should concern you. I get that it doesn't, but who is the last forward who put up 0.5ish points per game over his Sophomore and Junior seasons in the NCAA and turned into a solid prospect? Carter Mazur and Justin Abdelkader both put up 0.9 PPG and didn't return for their Senior seasons. As a Freshman, Dylan Larkin put up 1.3 PPG.

For the people who can't handle anything but sunshine blowing, I hope it works out! I truly do!

"solid programs" don't gas head coaches who recently won a national championship, nor do NCHC rookies of the year transfer away from them after a single season (Sacha Boisvert). they are historically good, but have not been the last few years. you might learn more if you watch games and not just scout via hockeydb, but you do you.

i don't think believing James has a shot to be a useful 3rd or 4th line player is radically optimistic, i definitely wasn't comparing him to Larkin. are we only allowed to discuss Larkin-level prospects here? seems like this place would have shut down a while ago if we were only allowed to talk about that caliber of player!

i don't really want to split hairs over your definition of "solid prospect," but the NHL is littered with guys in 3rd or 4th line roles with comparable production, especially in depth roles. not all of them have to score 20 goals like Abdelkader did, or Mazur might. Riley Sheahan is another guy right around your arbitrary benchmark who had a decent career. is a career like that worth rejoicing in the streets? no, but it's respectable. again, the whole point is "safe to say he's no longer a prospect" is dramatic and stupid.

 

[newfy]

"solid programs" don't gas head coaches who recently won a national championship, nor do NCHC rookies of the year transfer away from them after a single season (Sacha Boisvert). they are historically good, but have not been the last few years. you might learn more if you watch games and not just scout via hockeydb, but you do you.

i don't think believing James has a shot to be a useful 3rd or 4th line player is radically optimistic, i definitely wasn't comparing him to Larkin. are we only allowed to discuss Larkin-level prospects here? seems like this place would have shut down a while ago if we were only allowed to talk about that caliber of player!

i don't really want to split hairs over your definition of "solid prospect," but the NHL is littered with guys in 3rd or 4th line roles with comparable production, especially in depth roles. not all of them have to score 20 goals like Abdelkader did, or Mazur might. Riley Sheahan is another guy right around your arbitrary benchmark who had a decent career. is a career like that worth rejoicing in the streets? no, but it's respectable. again, the whole point is "safe to say he's no longer a prospect" is dramatic and stupid.

I was with you until you mentioned Sheahan lol

 

[crashmore]

I was with you until you mentioned Sheahan lol

that's fair, he was just the first name that jumped to mind who was around a .5 ppg as a soph/junior, which for whatever reason is the ultimate measuring stick to some... i know he flamed out quicker than fans would have liked, but he still played 600+ NHL games and was near a 40-point pace a handful of times early in his career. that would be good for 5th or 6th on this year's team, lol.

the point is there are plenty of guys like this around the NHL. Detroit needs better players up and down the lineup, and that includes bottom six wingers, 3rd pair Ds... and depth beyond that, so they aren't just pulling up AAAA players to play 6 minutes when we have an injury or two.

based on 15ish viewings over the last two seasons, i happen to think James is reasonable to consider as one of the better "second-tier" prospects whose game might translate nicely to a depth role, and based on program turmoil and turnover, maybe a bit more than that. his numbers definitely don't tell the full story. the Wings reportedly offered him a contract, and UND fans are thrilled he's coming back. i think that checks enough boxes for a player worth monitoring, but it appears that is too rosy of an outlook for some.

 

[Mo Kasmond]

This season Ammo is right around a point per game. I was taking a look at some guys who've had PPG seasons in GR and for the most part, hitting that threshold has translated well to the NHL: Gus Nyquist, Jiri Hudler, Val Filppula all had PPG seasons and solid NHL careers. Evgeni Svechnikov had PPG-ish seasons when he was 21 -23, but injuries obviously derailed his career.

Svech scored 51 points in 74 games in his best season with the Griffs. That is not really close to a point per game. In his other seasons he never surpassed 0.5 points per game.

 

[Rolo Tomassi]

Im high on Dylan James as a checking role player it's something we dont have a tonne of in the system. He has speed to burn and if he's in the mood a real tenacity to his game. He'd be a major plus on the a PK and would take a load off Larkin and Raymond so they dont have pk as much. Which imo wore them down over the course of the season.

That said Im not going to lose any sleep if James does walk on us.

This. Not everyone needs to play in the top 6. What usually happens in Detroit, is we have too many players who have “top 6” potential, and the best 6 actually play in the “top 6.” The others end up on the lower lines, in a roll they are not suited for. Look at Berggren, for example. Not great defensively, cant kill penalties, throw hits, or grind along the boards.

We need guys who excel at that. Perhaps guys llike James are planned for those roles.

 

[izlez]

This. Not everyone needs to play in the top 6. What usually happens in Detroit, is we have too many players who have “top 6” potential, and the best 6 actually play in the “top 6.” The others end up on the lower lines, in a roll they are not suited for. Look at Berggren, for example. Not great defensively, cant kill penalties, throw hits, or grind along the boards.

We need guys who excel at that. Perhaps guys llike James are planned for those roles.

Well that's because bottom 6 forwards and bottom pairing defenseman can easily be picked up in free agency at a dime a dozen

/s

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Well that's because bottom 6 forwards and bottom pairing defenseman can easily be picked up in free agency at a dime a dozen

/s

Sure if you want to sign Justin Holl for $3.4x3

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Demidov was let out of his SKA contract. Maybe Buchelnikov could do the same?

SKA Ice Hockey Club (@hcSKA_News)

 

[19 for president]

Demidov was let out of his SKA contract. Maybe Buchelnikov could do the same?

SKA Ice Hockey Club (@hcSKA_News)

If Yzerman thinks he's ready for the big club he'll be here. I just don't see him coming over to play in the AHL.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

What do ppl think about trading wallinder to the blues for Lukas Fischer ? If there’s an expansion draft within 2 yrs he’ll get exposed alongside johansson( pellikka As well if comes over before season ends)

Might as well ship him for a prospect who wouldn’t have to go through expansion waivers and I checked the blues and they should be able to protect him alongside Paralyko and broberg if he performs since Faulk will be on his last yr

Is everyone sold wallinder will be a big player for us or nothing more than a 3rd paring if he makes it?

 

[19 for president]

What do ppl think about trading wallinder to the blues for Lukas Fischer ? If there’s an expansion draft within 2 yrs he’ll get exposed alongside johansson( pellikka As well if comes over before season ends)

Might as well ship him for a prospect who wouldn’t have to go through expansion waivers and I checked the blues and they should be able to protect him alongside Paralyko and broberg if he performs since Faulk will be on his last yr

Is everyone sold wallinder will be a big player for us or nothing more than a 3rd paring if he makes it?

I'd absolutely think Wally is trade bait. The possibility of him ever making the Wings decreases daily because I just don't see him leaping over anyone to get an NHL shot. While possible, I really doubt the Wings ever dress more than 4 homegrown dmen at a time. With ASP possibly coming to the NHL as early as next season that means he'd probably have to jump Aljo, Ed, Seider, and ASP. Aljo is the obvious weak point, but Wally is going to be a hard sell over an NHL established Aljo. He may have greater potential but coaches will usually take the more sure thing unless we are talking about superstar potential (see ASP). As of right now it seems likely that Buium has passed him as a potential depth guy, so I absolutely think kicking the can down the road for a younger prospect or packaging him for an NHL player is the right move. He may eventually become an NHLer but I think the road is too stacked against him in the Wings system. He's going to be an out of waiver options guy at best and I don't think the Wings will "develop him further" at the NHL level.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

I'd absolutely think Wally is trade bait. The possibility of him ever making the Wings decreases daily because I just don't see him leaping over anyone to get an NHL shot. While possible, I really doubt the Wings ever dress more than 4 homegrown dmen at a time. With ASP possibly coming to the NHL as early as next season that means he'd probably have to jump Aljo, Ed, Seider, and ASP. Aljo is the obvious weak point, but Wally is going to be a hard sell over an NHL established Aljo. He may have greater potential but coaches will usually take the more sure thing unless we are talking about superstar potential (see ASP). As of right now it seems likely that Buium has passed him as a potential depth guy, so I absolutely think kicking the can down the road for a younger prospect or packaging him for an NHL player is the right move. He may eventually become an NHLer but I think the road is too stacked against him in the Wings system. He's going to be an out of waiver options guy at best and I don't think the Wings will "develop him further" at the NHL level.

Not necessarily cause he can be a 3rd pairing guy next season and possibly going forward

Chiarot (if he stays final yr) seider
Edvinsson pellikka (if he plays next yr)
Wallinder johansson
Veteran Dman

He was the first pick in the 2nd round so I can see him getting a shot, even if he plays well I can’t see him being anything more than a 3rd pair dman unless he somehow leaps into being seider’s partner but I don’t see it happening and he’d be exposed for sure with possibly johansson

Johansson would be claimed for sure over him unless expansion teams come in 26-27 which is what I’m hoping for and pellika holds on to start his North American debut next season and not come at the end of the year like Demidov or the habs just so we ouldnt have to protect him and johansson would be covered

I lik buium As well and depending how he does I can see Yzerman paying to protect him from being claimed but might be tough if theyres multiple teams involved. Wallinder should be nhl ready next season and if can get him involved in a deal with something else if need be and For fischer’s Kid I think would be better and buy us more time and have him protected from expansion draft and make sure we have someone else in the system