Post-Game Talk: Wings 4 - Jets 2

[White Out 902]

There are clearly two camps that I see existing right now on the forum. The two biggest camps, anyways. There's one that seems to think the overall record is what it is and best describes where the team will be for the playoffs, or what the team's actual performance should be. Then there's the camp that I include myself in that looks at the last, basically, quarter of the season, if not more, where we've struggled mightily and are kind of playing like garbage. The reason I think it's reasonable for the people who are showing concern is because this is not the first time the team has done this. The team has an absolute mental block getting through adversity. Somebody commented a page or two ago that they wish people would be specific about their criticism of why they lost the game. I think I've been pretty consistent in my theory that the team lacks the mental fortitude to deal with things when they don't go their way, and suddenly the sky is falling.

 

[Buffdog]

here are clearly two camps that I see existing right now on the forum. The two biggest camps, anyways. There's one that seems to think the overall record is what it is and best describes where the team will be for the playoffs, or what the team's actual performance should be. Then there's the camp that I include myself in that looks at the last, basically, quarter of the season, if not more, where we've struggled mightily and are kind of playing like garbage. The reason I think it's reasonable for the people who are showing concern is because this is not the first time the team has done this. The team has an absolute mental block getting through adversity. Somebody commented a page or two ago that they wish people would be specific about their criticism of why they lost the game. I think I've been pretty consistent in my theory that the team lacks the mental fortitude to deal with things when they don't go their way, and suddenly the sky is falling.

Nobody (myself included) would object to a post like this

I also don't think that anyone is saying that the team has played as well over the past 20 games as they did the first 20. But people will disagree with how much that matters and how to react over it

In terms of the adversity thing... I'm not sure. Sometimes they come from behind, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they give up leads and lose, sometimes they give up leads and hang on.

I'd really have to see what their record is after trailing by certain amounts of goals or at a certain point in the game and compare those to teams league wide. You may be right

 

[LowLefty]

Stan really is not a good fit for our PK - we have been aggressive all season and when he is out there, he just doesn't have the acceleration to pressure guys so we get back into the collapsing box... Yes, he's been doing well with Pionk but holy fk those were ugly PK - he just reminds me a lot of Beaulieu where yes he's blocking shots and 'moving guys' but its a shooting gallery when he's out there...

Stan isn't the only one on the PK that has flipped to a less aggressive style - they are all doing it for some reason.
I'd think Arniel is going to have a look at that and get them all back on track - our PK has changed to a more passive approach.
But I wouldn't expect Stan to be chasing or pressuring as much as the guys up high.
When our PK was doing well, he played the same game - he's more focused on net front traffic.

Our PK as been good earlier with Stan's participation - I don't think he has dismantled the PK plan on his own.

 

[surixon]

Looking at the game again...

Stan really is not a good fit for our PK - we have been aggressive all season and when he is out there, he just doesn't have the acceleration to pressure guys so we get back into the collapsing box... Yes, he's been doing well with Pionk but holy fk those were ugly PK - he just reminds me a lot of Beaulieu where yes he's blocking shots and 'moving guys' but its a shooting gallery when he's out there...

What is the benefit of playing Names - he is clearly injured... call up Chibs or bump up Nino to second line...

Dunno sure looks like Perfetti-Ehlers have SOME chemistry - just CP is snake-bit for sure... then there the fact the play dies on Lowry's stick

Shitty break on the Pionk deflection but its REALLY noticeable how aggressive that PK is... Samberg cannot come back soon enough

Still think its crazy that Nino is not consistently in our top six

KFC had one of his worst games of the season - Ill chalk that up to a blip

Don't understand how you don't give Kupari or Gus a look at 2C while Names is knicked up - the 4th line was by far our best line yesterday

Will say it again - neither Stan or Heinola are good options for the playoffs


He played with Lowry last night.


Ehlers set Cole up TWICE last night and he hit crossbars... convo is TOTALLY different today if those shots go in - then we are raving about the 2nd line chemistry haha

They are highly skilled players so of course they will still generate chances and goals. But they don't have the inate chemistry that KC and Scheifele have for instance. They have to work harder for it.

Anyhow the team is largely having success and on any successful team, some players need to alter their games and take more of a back seat role for the betterment of the team and I feel that is what Cole is doing. He's doing more of the defensive heavy lifting so that Ehlers who excels at it can do the offensive. He's trying to develop into more of a triggerman for Fly. But he's more of a natural playmaker who likes to slow the play down so that game doesn't come as naturally and as we've seen there have been growing pains in involving a lot of posts this year.

But he will be a much better player for it, and in a couple of years imo he'll be a very strong all around player that will be able to score, setup and defend extremely well.

 

[surixon]

There are clearly two camps that I see existing right now on the forum. The two biggest camps, anyways. There's one that seems to think the overall record is what it is and best describes where the team will be for the playoffs, or what the team's actual performance should be. Then there's the camp that I include myself in that looks at the last, basically, quarter of the season, if not more, where we've struggled mightily and are kind of playing like garbage. The reason I think it's reasonable for the people who are showing concern is because this is not the first time the team has done this. The team has an absolute mental block getting through adversity. Somebody commented a page or two ago that they wish people would be specific about their criticism of why they lost the game. I think I've been pretty consistent in my theory that the team lacks the mental fortitude to deal with things when they don't go their way, and suddenly the sky is falling.

It's one of the reasons why I'm an advocate of bringing Toews in. While I doubt he's much better then a 4C on the ice, his presence in the room might be what this group needs to mentally get it over the hump.

 

[WolfHouse]

Stan isn't the only one on the PK that has flipped to a less aggressive style - they are all doing it for some reason.
I'd think Arniel is going to have a look at that and get them all back on track - our PK has changed to a more passive approach.
But I wouldn't expect Stan to be chasing or pressuring as much as the guys up high.
When our PK was doing well, he played the same game - he's more focused on net front traffic.

Our PK as been good earlier with Stan's participation - I don't think he has dismantled the PK plan on his own.

Except that was not the case last night.... we were still aggressive without stan... and even at the start of the pk they challenge more but then retreat

The point is that other D are not focusing on net front traffic and blocking shots 6' in front of helle...

Hes an okay player but just watch how our pk transforms when samberg returns

 

[Optimistic Cynic]

Another PGT trading arguments and insults over advanced stats and graphs, arguments over line-ups, arguments over more advanced stats, arguments over even larger graphs, arguments over arguments....

Okay, we lost but I got to see most of the game and the parts I saw were fun and exciting to watch. I care little for most stats and understand even less of them, but a few things do jump out at me::
- We've got more points than any other team in the league.
- We've won more games than any other team in the league.
- We have the highest goal differential of any other team in the league.

I realize there's plenty of counter-arguments to what I've said, like number of games played, and dire warnings of what the Jets will become but I'll respond to those by logging off, taking a shower, getting dressed and meeting someone for a luncheon date. Enjoy your arguments!

Yeah you gotta understand when guys discuss a game they mostly argue, about who made that play or missed their man or who should be paired with who or why this guy drives a line and that one don't. If we all agree on something then there's no discussion. Everyone agrees and you wind up with Yip Yips that the kids always watched on Sesame Street.
So how was the lunch date?

 

[WolfHouse]

It's one of the reasons why I'm an advocate of bringing Toews in. While I doubt he's much better then a 4C on the ice, his presence in the room might be what this group needs to mentally get it over the hump.

Then bring him in as a coach... hes been out of hockey for 2 years...

 

[raideralex99]

People need to relax after a loss the sky is not falling.
Watching that game you had a feeling the way the Jets were hitting the posts and missing the net it was going to be one of those games. The puck is just laying there and 3 Jets around the net can't get their stick on it ... heck Nino even deflected a couple of shot wide and over the net.
Too much is being made over Stanley and Heinola ... Once the defense gets healthy they will be in the press box. Imo the only reason they are playing is the Jets have banked a few points and have the luxury of giving them extra playing time.
It's not an excuse but all these different starting times for the Jets could be a reason for the slow starts. I know players eat and rest different before games and its hard to get into a routine with the different starting times.

 

[Optimistic Cynic]

People need to relax after a loss the sky is not falling.
Watching that game you had a feeling the way the Jets were hitting the posts and missing the net it was going to be one of those games. The puck is just laying there and 3 Jets around the net can't get their stick on it ... heck Nino even deflected a couple of shot wide and over the net.
Too much is being made over Stanley and Heinola ... Once the defense gets healthy they will be in the press box. Imo the only reason they are playing is the Jets have banked a few points and have the luxury of giving them extra playing time.
It's not an excuse but all these different starting times for the Jets could be a reason for the slow starts. I know players eat and rest different before games and its hard to get into a routine with the different starting times.

Smartest post on the board today.

 

[raideralex99]

Seriously question if Toews was not from Winnipeg would people still want him?
Two years is a long time away from hockey ... has he even been on skates or trying to get back into shape?
Yes its great he still has the desire to play hockey but maybe his body will tell him something different.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Ultimately Stan in or out it should not be the 6th guy who wins or loses game.

 

[Stumbledore]

Seriously question if Toews was not from Winnipeg would people still want him?
Two years is a long time away from hockey ... has he even been on skates or trying to get back into shape?
Yes its great he still has the desire to play hockey but maybe his body will tell him something different.

You're assuming people still want him.

There's always fans of individual players (hell, I'd love to see us sign Frank Mahovlich) and a few who have bizarre notions for how to fire up a team, but there's never been any great groundswell from any team to try to get Toews back on skates this season.

 

[LowLefty]

Except that was not the case last night.... we were still aggressive without stan... and even at the start of the pk they challenge more but then retreat

The point is that other D are not focusing on net front traffic and blocking shots 6' in front of helle...

Hes an okay player but just watch how our pk transforms when samberg returns

I agree he didn't have a good night on the PK - but like you said, once Samberg is back, he'll play less minutes on PK.
But over all, I don't see a major problem with him there - he's trying to fill big shoes right now and that's not the way to evaluate this guy.

Another way to frame the issue is that our PP is worse without Samberg -

 

[surixon]

Seriously question if Toews was not from Winnipeg would people still want him?
Two years is a long time away from hockey ... has he even been on skates or trying to get back into shape?
Yes its great he still has the desire to play hockey but maybe his body will tell him something different.

I mean there are supposedly a number of teams interested in him.

But you are correct he hasn't played in years and it will be difficult to come back. But he was the captain of a three time cup winning team. Even if not on the ice he may be able to help in the room.

I'm sure Chipman also wouldn't object to the marketability of local hero coming home.

But it isn't without its risks.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Oh it thought I was serious about the points.

 

[WolfHouse]

I agree he didn't have a good night on the PK - but like you said, once Samberg is back, he'll play less minutes on PK.
But over all, I don't see a major problem with him there - he's trying to fill big shoes right now and that's not the way to evaluate this guy.

Another way to frame the issue is that our PP is worse without Samberg -

Yes ill agree to that... im not sure miller does any better

I do think our 6th D will make a difference in the playoffs though... esp on pk - for me another D is the target as opposed to 2C

Seriously question if Toews was not from Winnipeg would people still want him?
Two years is a long time away from hockey ... has he even been on skates or trying to get back into shape?
Yes its great he still has the desire to play hockey but maybe his body will tell him something different.

Imagine the response if someone suggested phil kessel

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Me scrolling through this PGT

 

[Adam da bomb]

Yes ill agree to that... im not sure miller does any better

I do think our 6th D will make a difference in the playoffs though... esp on pk - for me another D is the target as opposed to 2C


Imagine the response if someone suggested phil kessel

If they’ll play that other d. They brought in miller and bones still went with Stan.

 

[WolfHouse]

Me scrolling through this PGT

Cmon theres a real beauty to how little of the game was actually discussed

The concept of wabi sabi is helpful

 

[Inanna]

Yeah you gotta understand when guys discuss a game they mostly argue, about who made that play or missed their man or who should be paired with who or why this guy drives a line and that one don't. If we all agree on something then there's no discussion. Everyone agrees and you wind up with Yip Yips that the kids always watched on Sesame Street.
So how was the lunch date?

Lunch was really nice, the dessert that followed was incredible.

I understand that "guys gotta argue", I think it might be part of a hockey fan code or something. It leaves me with little to contribute because (a) I'm the least knowledgeable person here, and (b) I don't care.

I'm just here because I love watching hockey, the excitement it stirs and the fun it produces. I shriek and groan with various plays, swear when we hit the post or, when Stanley rattled the crossbar, slop some wine on my new leggings I got for Christmas. I lack any ammunition to advance any argument or bolster any bench decisions because I rarely remember who was involved in any play on which we don't score.

But do understand that I'm not advocating boys stop arguing about lines and statistics. I'm just saying that I find a lot of the discussion boring. Then again many folks here find me boring (or sneered at for "intrusive oversharing", as if that was a bad thing) so it's probably just karma. Speaking of sharing, Stumbley owes us a story about meeting his wife. If Ponds can do it, the old grumpy lawyer can.

 

[Cnile]

Doesn't Perfetti play with Ehlers? Do you mean a better centre?

Yes

 

[Inanna]

Cmon theres a real beauty to how little of the game was actually discussed

The concept of wabi sabi is helpful

Especially if you were prone to acne as a teen.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Lunch was really nice, the dessert that followed was incredible.

I understand that "guys gotta argue", I think it might be part of a hockey fan code or something. It leaves me with little to contribute because (a) I'm the least knowledgeable person here, and (b) I don't care.

I'm just here because I love watching hockey, the excitement it stirs and the fun it produces. I shriek and groan with various plays, swear when we hit the post or, when Stanley rattled the crossbar, slop some wine on my new leggings I got for Christmas. I lack any ammunition to advance any argument or bolster any bench decisions because I rarely remember who was involved in any play on which we don't score.

But do understand that I'm not advocating boys stop arguing about lines and statistics. I'm just saying that I find a lot of the discussion boring. Then again many folks here find me boring (or sneered at for "intrusive oversharing", as if that was a bad thing) so it's probably just karma. Speaking of sharing, Stumbley owes us a story about meeting his wife. If Ponds can do it, the old grumpy lawyer can.

Yeah Stumbly. That would be a lot more entertaining than the current conversation. Are there any pictures of young Stumbles?

 

[Stumbledore]

Lunch was really nice, the dessert that followed was incredible.

as if that was a bad thing) so it's probably just karma. Speaking of sharing, Stumbley owes us a story about meeting his wife. If Ponds can do it, the old grumpy lawyer can.

There is no story. The wife and I were sharing photos on NYD and the grands were laughing that we went to Hogwarts - actually Balloil founded in 1263. We also met there cause of a downpour and we told that story but cleaned it up first, which got Cynic asking for the "real' story, which is like 3 sentences long. So, no real story, nothing to share.

Yeah Stumbly. That would be a lot more entertaining than the current conversation. Are there any pictures of young Stumbles?

See? Now look what you've done.