Winger Rankings #11
- Thread starter Boreal01
- Start date
KoozNetsOff 92
Hala Madrid
- Apr 6, 2016
- 8,567
- 8,235
Last 3 seasons (18/19-20/21)
OV
Goals: 123--GPG: 0.63--Pts: 198--PPG: 1.02
Per 82: 52 goals--84 pts
Hart: 7,13--AST: 1--2x rocket
Rantanen
Goals: 80--GPG: 0.48--Pts: 194--PPG: 1.15
Per 82: 39 goals--94pts
Hart: 10--AST: 2
Stone
Goals: 75--GPG: 0.38--Pts: 197--PPG: 1.00
Per 82: 31 goals--82pts
Hart: 9, 12--AST: n/a
Marner
Goals: 62--GPG: 0.32--Pts: 228--PPG: 1.16
Per 82: 26 goals--95pts
Hart: 19--AST: 1
Huberdeau
Goals: 73--GPG: 0.35--Pts: 231--PPG: 1.12
Per 82: 29 goals--92pts
Hart: 13--AST: 2
Other than Stone, the other 3 pace for ~10pts more than OV but OV is tearing them all a new one in goals. Is Marner/Huberdeau averaging ~10 more pts worth more than OV averaging ~25 more goals? Hell no (reflected in hart voting). Similar pt advantage for Rantanen but the goal edge for OV isn't as big so that's fine. Also important, Rantanen and Marner are attached to MacK and Matthews who according to HF are top 5 Cs, while OV has Backstrom who isn't even top 15. Furthermore, OV has the best hart finish. In fact, Rantanen, Marner and Huberdeau combined never received 1 hart vote or any AST in their careers until this season. So until they prove it in a real season, their finishes are flukes (but they are worse than OV's anyway). None of these players are good defensively (except Stone, but he's behind offensively), but at least OV brings ~200 hits as well. If we bring playoffs into it, here are their playoff stats the last 3 seasons paced to 82 GP
OV: 41 goals, 74pts
Rantanen: 40 goals, 107pts
Stone: 32 goals, 66pts
Marner: 9 goals, 52pts
Huberdeau: 25 goals, 107pts
Marner is complete dog shit and shouldn't be anywhere near a top 10 list. Stone again is clearly behind offensively.
Looking at the last 3 seasons+playoffs as you mentioned, you could make an argument for OV over Rantanen but it's really weak. However, he definitely belongs over Marner, Stone and Huberdeau.
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libertarian
Registered User
Boreal01
Registered User
Ehlers has been steadily gaining traction as he had the second most votes in #10 and was consistently receiving more votes than the majority of other candidates in the polls (#7 to #9) leading up to this one
Jets fans have also been in here advocating for Ehlers and often asserted that he's better than Connor/Wheeler
His lead shouldn't come as a shock to anyone who has been following along
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libertarian
Registered User
...and you know that people changed their vote for sure how exactly?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Ive been on these boards long enough to know how people vote (Ive done my share of rankings over the years). If they voted someone other than Ehler or Kap, they know its a wasted vote, and therefore change to one of the two so their vote has meaning.
clear example... Ehlers had just 3 more votes than Connor in #10 (9-6). Now suddenly, what, youre telling me all the Ovechkin votes all went to Ehlers and Kaprizov, virtually none to Connor? (currently 32-7).
Its not hard to see.
Boreal01
Registered User
If this was actually the case then I highly doubt there would be so many candidates who still have <5 votes, unless we assume that Gaudreau/Svechnikov/Miller/Palat have already lost votes to Ehlers/Kaprizov
It's also worth noting that of the 9 people who voted for Connor in the last poll, 8 of them haven't voted on this poll yet and the only person who did vote ended up voting for Guentzel this time around; meanwhile, over half of Ehlers' voters from the last poll have voted for him again this time (might be off by 1 or 2 people I just took a glance at the names quick)
Bounces R Way
Registered User
Someone explain to me how a player with two top 10 scoring finishes, a 0.95 career points per game, and a 4th place Hart finish has 8x less votes than Nikolaj Ehlers.
Explain it to me like I'm 9 years old.
Explain it to me like I'm 9 years old.
MardyBum
Registered User
and the other half are mostly those who are changing their votes every poll after they see their original vote is being wasted.
Look do what you want, it just becomes a less accurate ranking in the end.
Boreal01
Registered User
Do you believe the same thing is happening with the center rankings because I took a glance at those numbers and it looked similar to the winger rankings (i.e. 2nd and 3rd from last poll battling for the #1 spot with Pettersson taking a dip similar to Connor's)
Additionally, I appreciate your feedback, I may not personally agree with it but I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective; just wanted to clarify that there's no hard feelings since you've received some unnecessary hostility from others
Buck Naked
Can't-Stand-Ya
- Aug 18, 2016
- 3,943
- 6,082
Not even the best winger on his team, and may actually finish as the 5th best this season
Eh no. No one on that team drives play and creates offence as Gallagher. A tiny group of players in the league actually does. Below is from April 6th. I know he came back from his injury not looking the same, that was a really small sample size though.
Gallagher's stats since 2017-18:
5v5 Goals - 76 (4th)
5v5 xGoals - 74 (1st)
5v5 Goals per 60 - 1.3 (3rd)
5v5 xGoals per 60 - 1.3 (1st)
All Situations Goals - 100 (23rd)
All Situations xGoals - 107 (4th)
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
- 56,758
- 49,169
[Speaks slowly]: Less ... people ... vo-ted ... for ... him.
I would have him around 6th. And why? Because he has won 9 Rocket Richard trophies and has been consistently one of the greatest goal scorers to ever live throughout his career
Ehlers doesn't have the highs of Gaudreau, but I can see why people are down on him after two mediocre seasons. Ehlers actually has a higher PPG over the past two seasons as a very efficient scorer with little PP time, and is a fantastic possession player. I think Gaudreau also suffers from a bad playoff rep and questions about whether his size will ever allow him to excel there, though that shouldn't win Ehlers any votes since his production in the playoffs has been awful. I wouldn't put him ahead because I'd hope for Gaudreau at his best, but I can see why others do.
For what it's worth - I absolutely hate when people make polls and don't allow to change a vote in polls, or being able to see what others vote.
I'll be honest - you're probably a hell of a lot more knowledgeable about hockey than I am in some regards. I know what I know - but I'm not an expert on every player, and much much less every prospect, as others are here. Sometimes being able to see what other people are thinking before making my choice is helpful. In this case for example - I had a few players I was hesitating on - but it was helpful for me to see who others felt the favorites were to see if I agree or if I was way off base, since I'm not an expert on all the players listed. I honestly wouldn't have guessed Ehlers would be at the top.
What's so wrong about that?
I voted Guentzel. In my opinion - he has among the highest ppg in the past 2 seasons than anyone left (1.05), and has had tremendous performances in the playoffs in the past too.
Well to me, that ~10 point gap per season isn't negligible. 10 points is still very relevant. 25 more goals vs 10 points - if you're high on goals it's fine to pick the first option, but the second option is absolutely valid too.
Another point against Ovi though is - I know I mentioned 3 year sample, but if you look at just the last 2 years he's trending down.
Past 2 years - Ovechkin pace in 82 games of 78 points and 52 goals
Marner 96 points
Ranta 93 points
Huberdeau 91 points
Even Stone is above at 84 points
It's more like ~13-18 points difference now, than just ~10 points.
That's one reason for vote#11 I voted Guentzel instead of Gaudreau. I think Gaudreau has shown a higher peak, and overall for 3 years they're fairly comparable, but Gaudreau is trending down 2 years in a row now, so that 3rd year becomes a bit less relevant.
It's true that Ovechkin has a better career playoff resume than some of these guys, but he hasn't exactly done anything relevant there in the past 3 years with first round exits. Considering his age, and his trend of 2 weaker seasons in a row after a strong one 3 years ago - I think it's perfectly valid to slot him 10th. You can slot him higher if you're super high on goals and very confident he bounces back, but I think 10th is a fair ranking all things considered.
Bounces R Way
Registered User
ftfy
By 0.03 points per game the last two seasons, on a team that scored 24 more goals than the other over that time. Their career points per game is 0.95(Gaudreau) and 0.73(Ehlers) respectively. Their career even strength points per game is 0.67(Gaudreau) and 0.58(Ehlers). Gaudreau also is a fantastic possession player with a higher career CF%, CF% rel, FF%, and FF% rel than Ehlers. Gaudreau is consistently top 20 in controlled zone entries and completed passes. He also also has better playoff production rates than Ehlers.
But Ehlers is more Danish, so I guess he's got that going for him.
