wingedwheelpod : potential redwing trade targets

[jkutswings]

They need someone who can skate in the top6 and not be an anchor. I don't think that is necessarily a "goal scorer" like Peterka, though. Assuming Kane is back.

1) I don't want Kane back. It's time to commit to good players that will still be here (and good) in another few years.

2) Even if Buch becomes that scoring winger, it won't be for at least 2-3 more years. Detroit needs more firepower in the interim, so it becomes a strength down the road as MBN and Buch develop, rather than waiting out a weakness that we hope grows into something adequate with the rest of the kids.

 

[Winger98]

1) I don't want Kane back. It's time to commit to good players that will still be here (and good) in another few years.

2) Even if Buch becomes that scoring winger, it won't be for at least 2-3 more years. Detroit needs more firepower in the interim, so it becomes a strength down the road as MBN and Buch develop, rather than waiting out a weakness that we hope grows into something adequate with the rest of the kids.

I don't mind the 2-3 years thing because I don't expect us to be getting really good until around then. I think we can be a playoff team before that, but I'm hoping it's more on the back of the kids becoming better and better.

Right now...I'm not sure we have the assets to go after a guy like Peterka or Rossi. Other teams don't seem to want futures for those type of players, and we don't have a lot of established guys with the value to pull them. And I'm not sure either of us are fans of throwing assets at someone like Kreider unless there is a sweetener for us.

So I come back to Kane to keep us going, unless we can pull in Marner or some other UFA forward to take that spot.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

1) I don't want Kane back. It's time to commit to good players that will still be here (and good) in another few years.

2) Even if Buch becomes that scoring winger, it won't be for at least 2-3 more years. Detroit needs more firepower in the interim, so it becomes a strength down the road as MBN and Buch develop, rather than waiting out a weakness that we hope grows into something adequate with the rest of the kids.

Having Kane back shouldn't effect anything else we do. Why would you not want a Kane that can still produce? Literally makes no sense to not bring him back.

 

[USAHockey97]

I don't mind the 2-3 years thing because I don't expect us to be getting really good until around then. I think we can be a playoff team before that, but I'm hoping it's more on the back of the kids becoming better and better.

Right now...I'm not sure we have the assets to go after a guy like Peterka or Rossi. Other teams don't seem to want futures for those type of players, and we don't have a lot of established guys with the value to pull them. And I'm not sure either of us are fans of throwing assets at someone like Kreider unless there is a sweetener for us.

So I come back to Kane to keep us going, unless we can pull in Marner or some other UFA forward to take that spot.

That’s a concern of mine. We haven’t found a gem in the 2nd round or later yet despite all the picks we’ve had and none of them are good enough to acquire a good player in return. We basically just have our 1st rounders as our higher end building pieces and the other later picks as depth. So how do we pull off a big trade?

 

[jkutswings]

Having Kane back shouldn't effect anything else we do. Why would you not want a Kane that can still produce? Literally makes no sense to not bring him back.

1) I expect his production to decline each year.
2) He brings absolutely nothing to the table when he's not scoring.
3) He has a punchable face.

I'm guessing that Kane will be tolerable for one more season. But I'd prefer to replace him with a younger scorer that is aware of the concept of defense.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

1) I expect his production to decline each year.
2) He brings absolutely nothing to the table when he's not scoring.
3) He has a punchable face.

I'm guessing that Kane will be tolerable for one more season. But I'd prefer to replace him with a younger scorer that is aware of the concept of defense.

We are not building a team around him. Most of this roster brings absolutely nothing to the table including scoring...

 

[jkutswings]

We are not building a team around him. Most of this roster brings absolutely nothing to the table including scoring...

And if you want to keep him for another year or two, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion.

I'll be glad when he's gone.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

And if you want to keep him for another year or two, you're perfectly entitled to your opinion.

I'll be glad when he's gone.

He is the last guy on the team im hard pressed to get rid of. At least he is exciting and dynamic. We are littered with plugs, dump and chasers. I will never banish a first ballot hall of famer.

 

[jkutswings]

I will never banish a first ballot hall of famer.

I think you're still thinking of the player from Chicago. Here are the stats (and pace) for Kane in Detroit:

2023-24: 50 games, 20-27-47pts (0.94ppg, 0.4gpg)
2024-25: 72 games, 21-38-59pts (0.82ppg, 0.29gpg)

After a rejuvenated return to the ice in his first season here, that's a significant decrease in his rate of scoring goals and points.

Now to be fair, there are a couple of influencing factors (loss of scoring from the blue line, terrible coaching from Fester to start the season) that were outside of Kane's control. But the guy will turn 37 in November. Unless Detroit plans to add significant firepower on the back end this summer, I don't expect more than 50 points from Kane this season. (And another 5-10 point drop if he plays the following year.)

 

[Winger98]

From January to the end of the year, I think Kane had 42 points in 40 games, including 14 goals. He was trash under Lalonde but decided to show up when McLellan was hired. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for his attitude, and he was still questionable defensively, but he brought a lot of offense the back half of the season.

 

[jkutswings]

From January to the end of the year, I think Kane had 42 points in 40 games, including 14 goals. He was trash under Lalonde but decided to show up when McLellan was hired. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for his attitude, and he was still questionable defensively, but he brought a lot of offense the back half of the season.

He had 47 points in 50 games under Lalonde. That's not far behind the 42 in 40 you listed.

I think Patrick Kane is a talented scorer that has little else to his game, and he is at an age where each season becomes less likely for him to maintain enough of the one thing he brings to the table.

Do I expect him to fall off a cliff this season? No.
Do I think his days are numbered for the good to outweigh the bad? Yes.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

He had 47 points in 50 games under Lalonde. That's not far behind the 42 in 40 you listed.

I think Patrick Kane is a talented scorer that has little else to his game, and he is at an age where each season becomes less likely for him to maintain enough of the one thing he brings to the table.

Do I expect him to fall off a cliff this season? No.
Do I think his days are numbered for the good to outweigh the bad? Yes.

How can you harp on Kane for "only bringing scoring "?! 65% of this roster brings NOTHING

 

[Winger98]

He had 47 points in 50 games under Lalonde. That's not far behind the 42 in 40 you listed.

I think Patrick Kane is a talented scorer that has little else to his game, and he is at an age where each season becomes less likely for him to maintain enough of the one thing he brings to the table.

Do I expect him to fall off a cliff this season? No.
Do I think his days are numbered for the good to outweigh the bad? Yes.

okay, this season Kane had 14 points in the 29 games Lalonde coached. 45 in the 43 he played under McLellan. There was a significant difference between the two parts of Kane's season.

I don't think he will fall of a cliff, either. Just like I'm not sure he'll put up a ppg over a whole season. But for costing nothing but cap space, and not a ton of cap space at that...I don't mind rolling with that for another year.

This is also where I can have some sympathy for the idea of adding Kreider. But it would be instead of Kane, not in addition to Kane, unless we are able to clean out some other pieces and still provide at least the opportunity for kids to make the lineup. With their playoff performance, though, some of the Griffs might have screwed their opportunity to make the wings out of camp.

 

[jkutswings]

How can you harp on Kane for "only bringing scoring "?! 65% of this roster brings NOTHING

And I never said I was satisfied with those players either.

But I don't happen to know anything about those players besides their ineffectiveness on the ice. I do know that I don't like some of the things that Kane did in his past off the ice and I don't like that he's a former Chicago Blackhawk. So for the fact that he's a one dimensional player, plus some personal reasons, he's not a guy I cheer for.

Again, YMMV and that's fine. We'll just agree to disagree.

 

[Redwing66]

Kane helps us win just enough games to remain a mid-tier hockey team falling just short of the playoffs yet far enough away from ever having a decent top draft pick. I'm indifferent to having him on the team as I just can't cheer for the guy and think of him as we draft from where we do every year.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I would take Cozens over Norris any day.

Norris is a piece to stained glass waiting to break… very delicate and injury prone.

This team could have badly used a Cozens type of player down the stretch too. Hard nosed C who isn’t afraid to dish out some hits. Our centre depth lacks that big time. His contract is definitely a bit intimidating, but I still think Ottawa made out like bandits in that trade.

Marco Kasper says hello.

That’s what it would take to have gotten Cozens. Cozens may have more hits but they were on par with Rasmussen or Erne hits.

I agree that Norris for Cozens will work out better for Ottawa though. He looked like a guy in desperate need of a new team.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think you're still thinking of the player from Chicago. Here are the stats (and pace) for Kane in Detroit:

2023-24: 50 games, 20-27-47pts (0.94ppg, 0.4gpg)
2024-25: 72 games, 21-38-59pts (0.82ppg, 0.29gpg)

After a rejuvenated return to the ice in his first season here, that's a significant decrease in his rate of scoring goals and points.

Now to be fair, there are a couple of influencing factors (loss of scoring from the blue line, terrible coaching from Fester to start the season) that were outside of Kane's control. But the guy will turn 37 in November. Unless Detroit plans to add significant firepower on the back end this summer, I don't expect more than 50 points from Kane this season. (And another 5-10 point drop if he plays the following year.)

League scoring dropped about the amount Kane’s scoring did. Larkin also scored less than last year. The team’s scoring in general was much lower than 23-24.

The wings need Kane or someone of his current offensive production at a minimum just to stay afloat. I’m ok with Kane staying but if he goes we need to fill that void. So who fills it? Where do we get that guy?

Almost as important, this team needs at least 1 guy on the 3rd line that can get 20ish goals. This might be easier but shouldn’t take priority over 1st line LW and 2nd line RW.