wingedwheelpod : potential redwing trade targets

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Yeah, the mystery hinges on what type of assets Buffalo would want. I'd counter with offering Rasmussen and the 1st, but I don't know if either piece is something the Sabres would target.

Definitely worth a phone call though.

Adams is a bad GM. A 1st plus Rasmussen should be more than enough. Maybe throw in Tuomisto because they want/need RD.

Question; 2025 1st guaranteed at 13 or 2026 1st top 10 protected that becomes 2027 1st otherwise?

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

Brad actually said Danielson OR 13th overall PLUS Rasmussen for JJ peterka, that may be worth considering he had almost 70 pts and is 23 years old and german (seider friend)

I said the exact same thing that draft , get seider a German friend on the team and instead we went with wallinder lol

No way sabres deal peterka for an unknown prospect at 13 that would be years away and Rasmussen. Let’s be honest there’s nothing to consider if buffalo asks for that Yzerman pulls the trigger 100 times

It’s the sabres so you never know if you tell Kevyn Adams he’s bustin your balls and you’ll throw in Berggren with Rasmussen and the pick he’d think he out yzerman’d Yzerman but you’d think at some point they’ll have to stop being stupid lol

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Thats a really fair deal that we should take every day of the week. What exactly are people expecting out of Danielson? JJP is a 1st line scoring winger and young…

50-70 point 2 way center >>> 60-70 top 6 winger that wasn’t asked to play much defense. I’m a huge Peterka Stan but I’m not moving MBN, ASP, Augustine, or Danielson for him.

Cossa is the only one of our top 5 I give any consideration to.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

Thats a really fair deal that we should take every day of the week. What exactly are people expecting out of Danielson? JJP is a 1st line scoring winger and young…

Np giving danielson in a package deal but not giving up that 13th pick. Might have to use it on Nesbit or someone who can take over the 3c role since danielson would be gone

No way were keeping copp/compher around for another contract renewal

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

50-70 point 2 way center >>> 60-70 top 6 winger that wasn’t asked to play much defense. I’m a huge Peterka Stan but I’m not moving MBN, ASP, Augustine, or Danielson for him.

Cossa is the only one of our top 5 I give any consideration to.

Sabres aren’t moving peterka for cossa

I just don’t see us being a good trading partner unless sabres are willing to do quantity over quality. Plus you’d have to think they want players who can help now

Rasmussen,Berggren,plante,buium for peterka

Maybe they see 4 names and do it lol again I doubt it , won’t happen unless we’re willing to move a player we’re uncomfortable moving

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Thats a really fair deal that we should take every day of the week. What exactly are people expecting out of Danielson? JJP is a 1st line scoring winger and young…

What is Danielson? What will the 13th pick be? I think both of those will be better than him getting garbage goals for Buffalo.

 

[RedHawkDown]

50-70 point 2 way center >>> 60-70 top 6 winger that wasn’t asked to play much defense. I’m a huge Peterka Stan but I’m not moving MBN, ASP, Augustine, or Danielson for him.

Cossa is the only one of our top 5 I give any consideration to.

Man there is nothing about Danielson that makes it obvious he will be a 50-70 point 2 way centre. He has to have a big year in the AHL this year to make that plausible. He is very good defensively but so far 50 points looks like his upper end not some sort of foregone conclusion. Peterka in the same D+2 as Danielson now led Rochester in scoring.

Hoarding prospects will never allow us to compete. If the Sabres do Danielson+1st for Peterka I take that and run. Add a guy like Ehlers and even Kreider though I've shit talked him a lot and:

Ehlers-Larkin-Raymond
DeBrincat-Kasper-Peterka

Infinitely better top 6 than we had last year.

 

[RedHawkDown]

What is Danielson? What will the 13th pick be? I think both of those will be better than him getting garbage goals for Buffalo.

Huh? Wtf are "garbage goals for Buffalo"? He scored 27 goals for Buffalo and was probably their 2nd best player all year behind Dahlin and perhaps 3rd behind Thompson too.

Some of you have forgotten how much better guys are once they leave Buffalo and it shows. Peterka is going to put up 90 the next place he goes if he gets traded. Danielson + 1st would be a fantastic deal.

It doesn't matter anyways because the Sabres don't want picks or prospects since that's the one thing they have. They'd never do that deal.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Adams is a bad GM. A 1st plus Rasmussen should be more than enough. Maybe throw in Tuomisto because they want/need RD.

Question; 2025 1st guaranteed at 13 or 2026 1st top 10 protected that becomes 2027 1st otherwise?

I think you guys are being very optimistic here. Adams is a bad GM but he has made good trades recently. Savoie for McLeod is the kind of thing they're trying to do. Cozens for Norris + was good too. They're not going to be dealing JJP for picks and trash.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Sabres aren’t moving peterka for cossa

I just don’t see us being a good trading partner unless sabres are willing to do quantity over quality. Plus you’d have to think they want players who can help now

Rasmussen,Berggren,plante,buium for peterka

Maybe they see 4 names and do it lol again I doubt it , won’t happen unless we’re willing to move a player we’re uncomfortable moving

Sabres need a goalie.

Cossa is one of the best goalie prospects out there. He was a 15th overall pick. I personally believe Augustine will outperform him in the AHL and NHL when he’s signed, but I’m not itching to move him unless it really improves the team.

JJ Peterka is listed as RW on sites but plays as much LW or more. He was 51st in NHL scoring and 49th amongst forwards. When you account for wingers miscategorized as centers he’d be about the 18th-22nd highest scoring winger as a guesstimate.

Either the 13th overall pick + Ras/Berggren or Cossa + Ras/Berggren would be good value for the Sabres. I don’t think they do it because the Sabres don’t want to rebuild their rebuild. Very wrongly, they believe the team is 1 or 2 players away from the postseason instead of 4-5 while also swapping out core pieces for guys that can actually play a system.

Realistically, I think Adams does something like Batherson for Peterka. Peterka reunites with Stutzle and gets 35+ goals per season. Batherson goes to the Sabres and keeps scoring about the same but remains a defensive liability.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I mean eventually Yzerman has to pull the trigger on some sort of deal to bring in some legit top 6 talent to go along with DeBrincat, Larkin, and Raymond. Can't just keep hoping that a forward group of mostly hard working types will finally break through and get us back into the playoffs. Its a balance. And right now we need more skill. That's going to require some high end prospect to get dealt. There aren't alot of teams that go deep in the playoffs by building up mostly through their prospect system. There's like 4/5 main pieces and then everyone else usually comes from outside the org. Larkin, Raymond, Kasper, Seider, Ed are key pieces atm from inside the org. I'd be open to moving Danielson (who I see as a solid 3 C) to make sure we get a good F group for once.

If centers don't actually matter, come out and say it

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Man there is nothing about Danielson that makes it obvious he will be a 50-70 point 2 way centre. He has to have a big year in the AHL this year to make that plausible. He is very good defensively but so far 50 points looks like his upper end not some sort of foregone conclusion. Peterka in the same D+2 as Danielson now led Rochester in scoring.

Hoarding prospects will never allow us to compete. If the Sabres do Danielson+1st for Peterka I take that and run. Add a guy like Ehlers and even Kreider though I've shit talked him a lot and:

Ehlers-Larkin-Raymond
DeBrincat-Kasper-Peterka

Infinitely better top 6 than we had last year.

People said the same thing about Kasper here for 3 years. Since January 1 he scored at a 55 point pace which would have been in the top 3rd of 2nd line centers. Danielson just had a rookie season in the AHL comparable to Kasper’s. He’s displayed great skill defensively and transporting the puck. Danielson is a solid facilitator of the puck and has a really good shot that he needs to use more. He needs to add 10-15 lbs and get stronger to play more in the middle like Kasper has. So if you’re saying Danielson doesn’t have the potential to be a top 6 center then I say you aren’t watching Danielson.

There’s a reason the Wings took him at 9th overall instead of someone like Oliver Moore, Matthew Wood, Dalibor Dvorsky and Brayden Yager. And it’s not because they expect him to be a 10 goal, 20 assist 3rd line centers. (Because, yes, that is approximate stat line of your average 3rd line centers in the NHL last season.)

 

[minimal]

I wish Krysko posted here so I could block him.

 

[RedHawkDown]

People said the same thing about Kasper here for 3 years. Since January 1 he scored at a 55 point pace which would have been in the top 3rd of 2nd line centers. Danielson just had a rookie season in the AHL comparable to Kasper’s. He’s displayed great skill defensively and transporting the puck. Danielson is a solid facilitator of the puck and has a really good shot that he needs to use more. He needs to add 10-15 lbs and get stronger to play more in the middle like Kasper has. So if you’re saying Danielson doesn’t have the potential to be a top 6 center then I say you aren’t watching Danielson.

There’s a reason the Wings took him at 9th overall instead of someone like Oliver Moore, Matthew Wood, Dalibor Dvorsky and Brayden Yager. And it’s not because they expect him to be a 10 goal, 20 assist 3rd line centers. (Because, yes, that is approximate stat line of your average 3rd line centers in the NHL last season.)

Kasper had a very, very good end to the AHL season. He improved significantly over the course of the season and did the same thing in the NHL. He started the year with a broken kneecap and had reasons to be slow to start. Danielson didn't. Danielson was fine but didn't really blow up the 2nd half like Kasper did so I don't think they are good comparisons. Expecting every single one of our 1st round picks to knock it out of the park is very risky. We've had a fantastic streak with Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, and probably ASP too.

At some point you have to give up something to get something and Danielson should absolutely be on the table for a 23 year old 1st line winger lol. JJP had 12 less points than Raymond this year on a worse Buffalo team. Would you not trade Danielson+ for a Lucas Raymond clone either?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I mean eventually Yzerman has to pull the trigger on some sort of deal to bring in some legit top 6 talent to go along with DeBrincat, Larkin, and Raymond. Can't just keep hoping that a forward group of mostly hard working types will finally break through and get us back into the playoffs. Its a balance. And right now we need more skill. That's going to require some high end prospect to get dealt. There aren't alot of teams that go deep in the playoffs by building up mostly through their prospect system. There's like 4/5 main pieces and then everyone else usually comes from outside the org. Larkin, Raymond, Kasper, Seider, Ed are key pieces atm from inside the org. I'd be open to moving Danielson (who I see as a solid 3 C) to make sure we get a good F group for once.

Change your expectations of what a 2nd and 3rd line center is in the league. 2nd line centers are only Fedorov and Forsberg and Francis and Malkin and Zetterberg on the very best teams.

There were 32 actual centers last season that scored 60+ points.
Anthony Cirelli was a 59 point 2nd line centers for Tampa. Bennett is a 51 point 2nd line center for Florida. Brock Nelson had 56 between NYI and COL. THESE ARE VERY GOOD OUTCOMES FOR 2C!

After his slow start Kasper was the 68th highest scoring center. Top end 3C over the whole season. His stats from January to April would have put him in the top tier of 2C scoring.

An average 3C is someone like Charlie Coyle with 35 points, or Christian Dvorak with 33 points or Andrew Copp with 23 points in 56 games. The highest scoring TRUE 3C was probably Philip Danault with 43 points, or JG Pageau with 42 points. But those guys also get spot duty on the top 2 lines, some power play time, and lots of chances at empty nets from playing the last 2 minutes of a game.

 

[schuelma24]

Kasper had a very, very good end to the AHL season. He improved significantly over the course of the season and did the same thing in the NHL. He started the year with a broken kneecap and had reasons to be slow to start. Danielson didn't. Danielson was fine but didn't really blow up the 2nd half like Kasper did so I don't think they are good comparisons. Expecting every single one of our 1st round picks to knock it out of the park is very risky. We've had a fantastic streak with Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, and probably ASP too.

At some point you have to give up something to get something and Danielson should absolutely be on the table for a 23 year old 1st line winger lol. JJP had 12 less points than Raymond this year on a worse Buffalo team. Would you not trade Danielson+ for a Lucas Raymond clone either?

Kasper had a very very good playoff but I would dispute that he ended the regular season on fire. He went through ups and downs throughout the year.

I'll also say again for anyone listening.. Kasper played with a SIGNIFICANTLY better team last year. Trust me. GR was basically crap the second half of this season. That's not to take anything away from Kasper at all, but Danielson had a lot less support, both with his linemates and defensive breakouts.

I think Danielson needs to be more assertive on O to truly reach his potential, but the tools are all there. I'm not trading another potential 2C caliber player for a winger unless he's a complete superstar.

 

[Kingpin794]

You guys are missing my point.

Centers are important. Danielson is a good prospect with a good future.

None of that changes the fact that we are going to have to be more aggressive in trades/FA to actually gets us over the hump. You aren't going to home grow your way out of being mediocre. And making those moves means having the fortitude to move prospects that may end up thriving in other locations.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Kasper had a very, very good end to the AHL season. He improved significantly over the course of the season and did the same thing in the NHL. He started the year with a broken kneecap and had reasons to be slow to start. Danielson didn't. Danielson was fine but didn't really blow up the 2nd half like Kasper did so I don't think they are good comparisons. Expecting every single one of our 1st round picks to knock it out of the park is very risky. We've had a fantastic streak with Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, and probably ASP too.

At some point you have to give up something to get something and Danielson should absolutely be on the table for a 23 year old 1st line winger lol. JJP had 12 less points than Raymond this year on a worse Buffalo team. Would you not trade Danielson+ for a Lucas Raymond clone either?

Raymond and JJP are not equivalent and shouldn’t be thought of as comparable assets in a trade.

Again, I’m a huge Stan for JJP but he doesn’t have the same offensive impact despite the numbers. And he definitely is not as strong defensively.

 

[schuelma24]

You guys are missing my point.

Centers are important. Danielson is a good prospect with a good future.

None of that changes the fact that we are going to have to be more aggressive in trades/FA to actually gets us over the hump. You aren't going to home grow your way out of being mediocre. And making those moves means having the fortitude to move prospects that may end up thriving in other locations.

I think we all agree with that. I think our point is basically that young, highly regarded centers are a very rare asset and IMO it's hard to justify getting rid of one for a well regarded winger. Just look at FA and the trade lists this year and other years - lots of wingers. How many legit 1st or 2nd line centers this year whose contracts aren't going to age horrible? Marco Rossi, who has legit size questions?

Getting good young players is hard.

Getting good young centers is almost impossible. I think we have one in Danielson.

 

[lilidk]

Boomer

 

[Kingpin794]

I think we all agree with that. I think our point is basically that young, highly regarded centers are a very rare asset and IMO it's hard to justify getting rid of one for a well regarded winger. Just look at FA and the trade lists this year and other years - lots of wingers. How many legit 1st or 2nd line centers this year whose contracts aren't going to age horrible? Marco Rossi, who has legit size questions?

Getting good young players is hard.

Getting good young centers is almost impossible. I think we have one in Danielson.

Like every teams board where they post their future lineup that will save them and it has 7, 8, 9 current prospects penciled in for 5 years down the line. How often is that the case when good teams get their footing? I'd gladly take Rossi now vs what Danielson might be in 5 years.

 

[schuelma24]

Like every teams board where they post their future lineup that will save them and it has 7, 8, 9 current prospects penciled in for 5 years down the line. How often is that the case when good teams get their footing? I'd gladly take Rossi now vs what Danielson might be in 5 years.

I'm not quite sure what you're debating ...... my whole point is I'd want a center back - so yes, I'd consider Danielson for Rossi (though I'm not saying I'd love it...I do think there are questions on if Rossi can stick at 2C long term).

 

[19 for president]

I really wanted JJP when he was drafted, but I just don't think he is a game changing winger. By that I mean someone like a prime Kane, Ovie, Kucherov. Someone who can control and drive a line on a championship team. Usually there are like 5 of these at best in the NHL at a time.

The Wings upcoming center depth is horrid. We have 1 legit C prospect in Danielson. We have Larkin who will be 29 entering this season, who I could easily see having to convert to wing by say age 32 as his skating falls off some. He already plays an wingers offensive game, but his speed and faceoff ability put him in the center role. The minute he can no longer use his speed as a puck transporter he won't be a super effective center. Assuming Kasper can at least be a 2C, we are probably going to need another top 6 center sooner rather than later.

Teams without center depth don't win, and our prospect depth at skilled winger projects a lot better with Buch, Ammo, Becher, Kiiskanen, Plante (maybe a C), Finnie, Soderblom.

Its less about Danielson the prospect and more about the hole trading him creates in our depth. This is where I wish Yzerman had taken a few more skilled center shots in the latter rounds early in his tenure.

 

[schuelma24]

I really wanted JJP when he was drafted, but I just don't think he is a game changing winger. By that I mean someone like a prime Kane, Ovie, Kucherov. Someone who can control and drive a line on a championship team. Usually there are like 5 of these at best in the NHL at a time.

The Wings upcoming center depth is horrid. We have 1 legit C prospect in Danielson. We have Larkin who will be 29 entering this season, who I could easily see having to convert to wing by say age 32 as his skating falls off some. He already plays an wingers offensive game, but his speed and faceoff ability put him in the center role. The minute he can no longer use his speed as a puck transporter he won't be a super effective center. Assuming Kasper can at least be a 2C, we are probably going to need another top 6 center sooner rather than later.

Teams without center depth don't win, and our prospect depth at skilled winger projects a lot better with Buch, Ammo, Becher, Kiiskanen, Plante (maybe a C), Finnie, Soderblom.

Its less about Danielson the prospect and more about the hole trading him creates in our depth. This is where I wish Yzerman had taken a few more skilled center shots in the latter rounds early in his tenure.

Good post .. my only quibble is Ammo right now is sticking at center in GR...though I agree he's likely a winger in the NHL.

 

[better Red than Dead]

Yeah, I'd happily give up 13OA as part of a deal for a player of Peterka's caliber (and age). I just don't know if Buffalo has any interest in picks, or what else would have to be included in the trade.

Buffalo cannot possibly want more picks and prospects, they need actual NHL players.