Windsor Spitfires 2018-19 Thread (Part 8)

[OHLTG]

So your issue isn't with the trade return but with the lack of youth that came in after the deal?

 

[RayzorIsDull]

So your issue isn't with the trade return but with the lack of youth that came in after the deal?

Well the value is always going to be what it is. Campbell is done after this year, it's questionable whether Garagan should return. I'm not necessarily sure you want both Boka and Purboo back as OAs. You may want an OA on D or even consider Incze if you don't know what the future is between the pipes. There was just more certainty moving forward that Morgan had 2 years of eligibility left still relatively young as well. Right now without any other forwards signed there are just more questions moving forward.

 

[aresknights]

Poor asset management at the end of the dat re Morgan

Bought high, sold low after 1/× year of misuse.

I agree sometimes ya gotta cut bait n reset n take a loss/hit. Nothing wrong with admitting that. Every team has done it.
But its a net loss, considering the transactions (he was a main piece coming into a rebuilding team)
Played 1/2 year and sold of cheap.

HL was his Gold education package transfered from Kingston to Windsor to Flint? Just a ? I have no idea

 

[hockeylegend11]

Poor asset management at the end of the dat re Morgan

Bought high, sold low after 1/× year of misuse.

I agree sometimes ya gotta cut bait n reset n take a loss/hit. Nothing wrong with admitting that. Every team has done it.
But its a net loss, considering the transactions (he was a main piece coming into a rebuilding team)
Played 1/2 year and sold of cheap.

HL was his Gold education package transfered from Kingston to Windsor to Flint? Just a ? I have no idea

From what I understand yes,which like I said makes the deal palpable.
Hey I was rooting for the kid,disappointed it didn't work,believe all sides had honourable intentions, the classy way both sides exited,seemed to indicate no hard feelings between the parties hopeful works out for both Windsor and Morgan

 

[OHLTG]

Well the value is always going to be what it is. Campbell is done after this year, it's questionable whether Garagan should return. I'm not necessarily sure you want both Boka and Purboo back as OAs. You may want an OA on D or even consider Incze if you don't know what the future is between the pipes. There was just more certainty moving forward that Morgan had 2 years of eligibility left still relatively young as well. Right now without any other forwards signed there are just more questions moving forward.

...and if a young F came in, there would be uncertainty about him, too. Morgan wasn't producing. There were issues. He was moved out and we got a couple of really good picks in return. Now, it's up to WR and his staff to properly utilize them.

But its a net loss, considering the transactions (he was a main piece coming into a rebuilding team)
Played 1/2 year and sold of cheap.

It's a net loss if the 2nd/4th don't turn out. You essentially dealt Vilardi/Day for a handful of high-end picks. Now, use the picks and do your thing.

 

[FireBall959]

The problem with Morgan is he wasnt thrown in as part of the Kigston trade, he was the centerpiece coming back. A 1st rounder starts his 2nd season on the 4th line playing about 6minutes a game and the organization is dissappointed when he doesnt produce. I dont know why he soured on his time here and wanted out.(sarcasm) You cant just say some players work out and some dont. You need to put the kids in a situation they can succeed in. Playing on the 4th line of a rebuilding team with offensively limited players is not showing a youngster he is part of their plan moving forward. Confidence is a big part of the game for these kids and nothing in how he was used by the coaches showed they had any confidence in him as a player. That part is all on the staff. Morgan not proving them wrong on the ice is on him. We are seeing how Morgan performs with offensive minded players with a staff/ organization that shows it believes in his abilities. Seeing some of the same treatment with Kari right now. Coaching staff doesnt trust his play atm, justified or not, but if you dont show confidence in his ability dont be surprised if the player loses confidence in himself. These are kids afterall.

 

[aresknights]

From what I understand yes,which like I said makes the deal palpable.
Hey I was rooting for the kid,disappointed it didn't work,believe all sides had honourable intentions, the classy way both sides exited,seemed to indicate no hard feelings between the parties hopeful works out for both Windsor and Morgan

I agree there should be no hard feelings and sometimes its not a fit for whatever reason. Its a business after all. (a business dealing with teens, agents, parents, advisors, pro teams.... Complicated to say the least)

But the fact remains, based on the return n his production since the move........ The Spits org probably did not maximize his value prior to trade or allow him to flourish or contribute as he has since moving on.
Its ok to admit it. ( check other 1st rd pick returns in 2nd yr for reference)

Every team has done similarly. Sold cheao, even London lol)

 

[hockeylegend11]

I agree there should be no hard feelings and sometimes its not a fit for whatever reason. Its a business after all. (a business dealing with teens, agents, parents, advisors, pro teams.... Complicated to say the least)

But the fact remains, based on the return n his production since the move........ The Spits org probably did not maximize his value prior to trade or allow him to flourish or contribute as he has since moving on.
Its ok to admit it. ( check other wst rd pick returns in 2nd yr for reference)

Every team has done similarly. ( even London lol)

Get what you say about London, they may regret trading the Perrott kid to Owen Sound.

 

[FireBall959]

3 wins in a row is ending the last 1/4 of the season on a high? Didnt we just lose 10 of the previous 12 before winning 3 in a row. Talk about cherry picking stats. The 3 wins havent exactly been pretty but the boys are getting the w's which is what they need atm. It really shows the gap from the 5-9 teams compared to the top 4.

 

[hockeylegend11]

3 wins in a row is ending the last 1/4 of the season on a high? Didnt we just lose 10 of the previous 12 before winning 3 in a row. Talk about cherry picking stats. The 3 wins havent exactly been pretty but the boys are getting the w's which is what they need atm. It really shows the gap from the 5-9 teams compared to the top 4.

Windsor is 9-9-1-2 in their last 21 games,and that's including the 5 game losing streak,and 12 of those 21 were on the road.

 

[FireBall959]

I can throw stats out too. Spits have just 5 wins in last 17 games.

 

[OHLTG]

Can I join? Spits undefeated this weekend!!

Stats can show anything you want - good, bad, or completely neutral. Getting into a cranky contest about small sample sizes seems rather pointless.

 

[aresknights]

Get what you say about London, they may regret trading the Perrott kid to Owen Sound.

I liked the player, n knew he would quickly become a fan fav. And posted as much.
No biggie. Traded him as part of a deal for an elite OHL point producer in a go for year. I like it. Gotta pay to play n Perrott wasnt a top 4 on this squad in spite of potential and that isnt even up for debate.
Morgan was a centre piece in a sell off deal and was flipped 4 months into the next season for pennies on the $
Completely different situations.
Amd the kid has thrived onced moved. "Mishandled" to say the least. And stats bear that out.

Its ok to admit the lost out on a deal. It happens. They bought high, sold low. Its a fact. It happens. To every team and its OK to admit it lol.

If Spits had a 2nd yr F, producing a PPG that cost a 2nd n 4th at deadline (like Flint does) I can imagine the praise you would reign down on WR.

 

[hockeylegend11]

I liked the player, n knew he would quickly become a fan fav. And posted as much.
No biggie. Traded him as part of a deal for an elite OHL point producer in a go for year. I like it. Gotta pay to play n Perrott wasnt a top 4 on this sauad in spite of potentisl and that isnt even up for debate.
Morgan was a centre piece in a sell off deal and was flipped 4 months into season for pennies on the $
Completely different situations.
Amd the kid has thrived onced moved. "Mishandled"

If Spits had a 2nd yr F, producing a PPG that cost a 2nd n 4th at deadline ( like Flint does) I can imagine the praise you would reign down on WR.

Disagree with the term mishandled, given every chance to succeed,unfortunately didnt.

 

[FireBall959]

With 10 games remaining Spits should be able to win at least 5, cant see any scenario where Erie catches us. Erie would have to go 8-4, fantastic time for a 3 game win streak. Don't thnk it matters where we finish but 7th definitely doable, higher possible but Kit and OS need to finish with 3 less wins then we manage to get. It'd be tough but still possible.

 

[OHLTG]

I have to say, a Wsr/SSM series would be fun. When was the last playoff series between the clubs? 2004-05?

 

[aresknights]

Disagree with the term mishandled, given every chance to succeed,unfortunately didnt.

Was he given every op to succeed? Or pigeon holed into what a rigid staff wanted?

Obviously Spits didnt give him the "right" chances as he has succeeded so far just fine elsewhere. In the immediate weeks after leaving Windsor.
Could be....
Playing with better talent? On a team lower in standings?
More appropriate on ice usage?
Better coaching?
Better mentoring?
Better pre game meals?

What do you attribute his recent success to HL? And why couldnt the Spits staff find a way to tap into it?

I dont know personally, but to claim they gave him every chance to succeed seems odd as he is succeeding now so shortly removed from Spits team?

So maybe, just maybe they didnt push the right buttons with a young player and Flint did? Which suggezts they didnt give him every chance.

Its ok to admit. Every team has mishandled a player. It happens.

But lack of production isnt always on the kid. Esp when they immediately show resilts elsewere. Sometimes its the adults and again, its OK to admit.

 

[hockeylegend11]

With 10 games remaining Spits should be able to win at least 5, cant see any scenario where Erie catches us. Erie would have to go 8-4, fantastic time for a 3 game win streak. Don't thnk it matters where we finish but 7th definitely doable, higher possible but Kit and OS need to finish with 3 less wins then we manage to get. It'd be tough but still possible.

For once we agree,should be an interesting last 10 games.
Erie has a much tougher schedule to the finish line.
Weird stat for Erie 8 of their 23 wins are from OT win or shootout win
Windsor 3 of their 24 wins are from the same result.
One stat I do like about Windsor, they are 16-0-0-1,when leading after 2,for a rebuild team that's solid.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Was he given every op to succeed? Or pigeon holed into what a rigid staff wanted?

Obviously Spits didnt give him the "right" chances as he has succeeded so far just fine elsewhere. In the immediate weeks after leaving Windsor.
Could be....
Playing with better talent? On a team lower in standings?
More appropriate on ice usage?
Better coaching?
Better mentoring?
Better pre game meals?

What do you attribute his recent success to HL? And why couldnt the Spits staff find a way to tap into it?

I dont know personally, but to claim they gave him every chance to succeed seems odd as he is succeeding now so shortly removed from Spits team?

So maybe, just maybe they didnt push the right buttons with a young player and Flint did? Which suggezts they didnt give him every chance.

Its ok to admit. Every team has mishandled a player. It happens.

But lack of production isnt always on the kid. Esp when they immediately show resilts elsewere. Sometimes its the adults and again, its OK to admit.

Well I can tell,they put him on the PP,early,used on every line to find chemistry with somebody,anybody,just for some reason cant nail it down,in fact one game against Guelph he was awarded penalty shot in OT,cold goalie came in because of skate issue to starter,Morgan misses penalty shot,game goes to shootout, Letowski goes to him in the shootout and he misses again,I knew right then that things aren't working out,like I said dont things were mishandled but for what ever reason this season he could not find his groove,those things happen.

 

[OHLTG]

What do you attribute his recent success to HL? And why couldnt the Spits staff find a way to tap into it?

I think part of it is increased confidence and part of it is systematic. If you're constantly playing near the top of the lineup, and the systems are geared towards offensive creativity, then you'll be more likely to produce. It wasn't the case with the Spits.

 

[FireBall959]

With how up and down the teams been that stat is quite surprising to me. Good on them thats solid for any team regardless of rebuilding or not

 

[aresknights]

One stat I do like about Windsor, they are 16-0-0-1,when leading after 2,for a rebuild team that's solid.

That good.
How does it compare to the other 19 OHL teams, just for context? And reference.

 

[aresknights]

I think part of it is increased confidence and part of it is systematic. If you're constantly playing near the top of the lineup, and the systems are geared towards offensive creativity, then you'll be more likely to produce. It wasn't the case with the Spits.

So if I am reading you correctly.

If he was played higher up in the Spits lineup, as a young player, , dealt for as part of a rebuild, and as the main return piece at that.......if he had more minutes/ with more skilled linemates/leading to more confidence..... He coulda produced more in Windsor?

Again back on the staff.

 

[OHLTG]

Part of it is systematic/staff. Part of it is confidence; if you're nearly invisible on the ice, you're not going to produce. There were some games you didn't realize he was out there until the third period. It's a combination of several things.

 

[aresknights]

Well I can tell,they put him on the PP,early,used on every line to find chemistry with somebody,anybody,just for some reason cant nail it down,in fact one game against Guelph he was awarded penalty shot in OT,cold goalie came in because of skate issue to starter,Morgan misses penalty shot,game goes to shootout, Letowski goes to him in the shootout and he misses again,I knew right then that things aren't working out,like I said dont things were mishandled but for what ever reason this season he could not find his groove,those things happen.

I watched the game u referenced vs Guelph.
Im not a fan of PS being a judhe of a players value. Its not a part of regular game play but OK.
You say "for whatever reason this season he could not find his groove" but yet it seems he has.

What ever buttons Wellwood n the Flint staff have pushed have worked.
TL couldnt find those buttons.

Again its OK to admit. Not a big deal. It happens. To all clubs ( yes London as well lol)

He had potential, Windsor made him the centre piece of a big trade,
Couldnt push the right buttons to have him contribute to teams success, move him on the cheap. He immediately fit in and contributed to another team. Sound about right?

Again its all good. Sometimes a coach cant/ doesn't want to/ has preconceived notions....whatever that doesnt allow them to get the most out of player. I see it all the time. Not a dig on TL. It happens.