TV: Willow (Disney+)

[Osprey]

I watched the original Willow (because I hadn't seen it in decades) and then immediately started the new series.

It's basically the same level of quality.

I respectfully disagree. I re-watched the movie for the first time in decades a couple of weeks ago, myself, and it had many elements that this series doesn't have: charm, imagination, likable characters, character development, realistic sets, a good soundtrack, an interesting and coherent story and themes about doing what's right and believing in oneself. No, it's not a "great" movie, but it has a lot of good qualities that made it stand out and that's the reason why it's still loved and relevant 34 years later. If this series were the same quality, it'd be loved, as well.

A good comparison is The Dark Crystal, another 80s fantasy movie that was recently revived as a TV series. Like Willow, it's generally not considered a "great" movie and has a score in the low 7s on IMDb, but is loved, nonetheless, no doubt by many of the same people. Unlike Willow, its series nailed everything people loved about the movie--the tone, the imagination, the design and so on--and it subsequently has an 8.4 on IMDb, a lot higher than even the movie. It goes to show that fans will recognize and appreciate when you make something that lives up to expectations and the quality of the original.

 

[NyQuil]

I disagree. I re-watched the movie for the first time in decades a couple of weeks ago, myself, and it had many elements that this series doesn't have: charm, imagination, likable characters, character development, realistic sets, a good soundtrack, an interesting and coherent story and themes about doing what's right and believing in oneself. No, it's not a "great" movie, but it has a lot of good qualities that made it stand out and that's the reason why it's still loved and relevant 34 years later. If this series were the same quality, it'd be loved, as well.

Well it's a bit silly to compare them on some of these aspects because one of them has to have everything resolved in 2 hours and the other has to pace itself out a lot more, especially when it comes to "character development, themes about doing what's right and believing in oneself".

Personally, I don't really hold one above the other at all.

Andor is a series that everyone hated because of the pacing until all of sudden everyone liked it and starting praising it.

 

[Osprey]

Well it's a bit silly to compare them on some of these aspects because one of them has to have everything resolved in 2 hours and the other has to pace itself out a lot more, especially when it comes to "character development, themes about doing what's right and believing in oneself".

Personally, I don't really hold one above the other at all.

Andor is a series that everyone hated because of the pacing until all of sudden everyone liked it and starting praising it.

Everyone didn't hate Andor. The majority liked it from the beginning and only a minority didn't. The reason that the latter didn't is that the first few episodes were all character development and world building. It was virtually the opposite of this series. Here, we had someone kidnapped without really getting to know and like him, so it's hard to care about him being rescued; we have a title character who hasn't been fleshed out because it's assumed that we've seen the movie; and we've had three characters killed off without much weight behind those deaths because they were barely developed beforehand. In fact, I couldn't even tell you their names and didn't even realize that one was related to one of the other characters until, literally, his last minute. All of that is failure at character development and can be judged now, IMO.

 

[NyQuil]

we've had three characters killed off without much weight behind those deaths because they were barely developed beforehand.

They clearly weren't essential characters.

They killed off the baby's mother and the nursemaid in the first couple of minutes of the film Willow.

Here, we had someone kidnapped without really getting to know and like him, so it's hard to care about him being rescued

Meh, he's the MacGuffin, much like the baby in the original Willow.

As a series aimed at kids, much like the film, I don't really have a problem with it over the first three episodes, as I don't have any kind of reverence for the original content, which itself was silly and uneven (the Brownies in particular are so god awful annoying and unfunny).

 

[Osprey]

They clearly weren't essential characters.

They killed off the baby's mother and the nursemaid in the first couple of minutes of the film Willow.



Meh, he's the MacGuffin, much like the baby in the original Willow.

As a series aimed at kids, much like the film, I don't really have a problem with it over the first three episodes, as I don't have any kind of reverence for the original content, which itself was silly and uneven (the Brownies in particular are so god awful annoying and unfunny).

They were characters who joined or followed the main party, two of which made it all the way to the end of the third episode and had final words with loved ones before dying in front of them. The writers clearly intended their deaths to resonate with us and the surviving characters and I wouldn't call them similar to characters dying alone in the first couple of minutes of the movie.

George Lucas has said that audiences should care about the MacGuffin. We can see that belief in baby Elora, whom we like and care for because she's cute. Unless you're a teenage girl, you probably don't like or care about the prince, so he's not much like baby Elora.

This series isn't aimed at kids. It's rated TV-14. Also, you don't need reverence for the movie to have issues with it. I've read several critical reviews from people who aren't that fond of the movie.

 

[NyQuil]

This series isn't aimed at kids. It's rated TV-14.

It's on Disney +.

It's aimed at older kids.

 

[Osprey]

It's on Disney +.

It's aimed at older kids.

I call those teens, but, regardless, that's still an older age group than the PG movie was aimed at.

BTW, not everything on Disney+ is aimed at kids or teens. Deadpool, Logan, Marvel's Daredevil and a few other Rated R movies and TV-MA series were added to the service, at least in the U.S., earlier this year.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

Never seen the original, but I know Davis was in it.

Might check it out, but it's going to be a huge shock to me to see Davis in a role that isn't the Leprechaun, or w/e the f*** he was supposed to be in Skinned Deep.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I disagree. I re-watched the movie for the first time in decades a couple of weeks ago, myself, and it had many elements that this series doesn't have: charm, imagination, likable characters, character development, realistic sets, a good soundtrack, an interesting and coherent story and themes about doing what's right and believing in oneself. No, it's not a "great" movie, but it has a lot of good qualities that made it stand out and that's the reason why it's still loved and relevant 34 years later. If this series were the same quality, it'd be loved, as well.

A good comparison is The Dark Crystal, another 80s fantasy movie that was recently revived as a TV series. Like Willow, it's generally not considered a "great" movie and has a score in the low 7s on IMDb, but is loved, nonetheless, no doubt by many of the same people. Unlike Willow, its series nailed everything people loved about the movie--the tone, the imagination, the design and so on--and it subsequently has an 8.4 on IMDb, a lot higher than even the movie. It goes to show that fans will recognize and appreciate when you make something that lives up to expectations.

So basically the Dark Crystal series was nightmare fuel like the movie?

I’m waiting for the Secret of NIMH tv series where they escape from Unit 731.

Kids are gonna love it!

 

[NyQuil]

So basically the Dark Crystal series was nightmare fuel like the movie?

I’m waiting for the Secret of NIMH tv series where they escape from Unit 731.

Kids are gonna love it!

We used to scare the crap out of kids.

Black Cauldron, the Black Hole, my god.

 

[Jussi]

"What did you do after you defeated Bavmorda? - We left and got pissed."

I knew there was something off with Graydon. "That boy ain't right..." as they say.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

We used to scare the crap out of kids.

Black Cauldron, the Black Hole, my god.

Watcher In The Woods.

Man I put those away in the dark corners of my mind and you made me remember them again…

The early and mid 80s are actually known as the “dark phase” for Disney.

Lucky me.

 

[Jussi]

We used to scare the crap out of kids.

Black Cauldron, the Black Hole, my god.

I saw the comic adaptation of that before the movie because in Finland, all Donald Duck comic subscribers got annual Christmas specials and that was the special one year. I thought it was actually better than the movie. I didn't mind the movie considering when it was made, but the comic had panels that looked better than the movie had, especially at the end.

 

[Osprey]

Watcher In The Woods.

That movie gave me nightmares for two months. Every night, I dreamed about that blindfolded dead girl appearing in the mirror and saying "help me" and the mirror breaking. <shiver>

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That movie gave me nightmares for two months. Every night, I dreamed about that blindfolded dead girl appearing in the mirror and saying "help me" and the mirror breaking. <shiver>

Dark Crystal is the one that got me the most as a kid - movie was creepy AF.

The funniest shit is that I thought I left it all behind me until I had kids. When my kids were toddlers I used to take them to a kid’s museum that had the real ‘UrSol Chanter’ on display.

I walked in and saw it and was instantly creeped out. We had a membership there for like two years and I had to walk past that creep show every time we went…

Here’s the actual display:

 

[NyQuil]

Even the music for Dark Crystal was creepy.

I had the storybook with the tape where you would turn the page at the noise. Same for Black Hole actually.

I also remember the start of the black and white Dr. Who show that used to be on at weird times of the day and it would freak me out as a child.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Even the music for Dark Crystal was creepy.

I had the storybook with the tape where you would turn the page at the noise. Same for Black Hole actually.

I also remember the start of the black and white Dr. Who show that used to be on at weird times of the day and it would freak me out as a child.

If we thought this shit was creepy as kids then as adults, it’s certified nightmare fuel.

Anyway, I really enjoyed the last Willow episode

The abandoned castle was creepy, but not in a traumatizing 1980s Disney kind of way.

Feels like the show might be hitting its groove now.

 

[Jussi]

One poster at the Superherohype forums mentioned that this show is like Xena, Warrior Princess or Hercules, but with better production values and I think that is very good summary. It's harmless fun and that's just fine. And I really likes the locations they're shooting at, this week's forest was so green.

 

[Jussi]

I liked last week's episode and this week's was even better, One of the longest Disney+ show episodes at 58 minutes, credit included. Some really gorgeous shots, I imagines some shot on The Volume. The night scene with Elora and Kit...

 

[Jussi]

Oh, forgot to post this. I thought they nailed the season finale.



"If they got Christian Slater on Disney+, they're going to have to change the name to Disney-."

 

[Fighter]

The show went as I hoped, it started a bit slow and with some question marks (modern ending themes, quite few stoppages for a comedy moment, surprising costumes), bit it picked up episode by episode: characters developed brilliantly, storyline got more and more interesting, scenes got better and better. At the end I'm totally sold on this series and can't wait for season 2!
Note that I'm a die-hard Willow movie fan AND nostalgic so usually I lean towards the more "traditional approach" rather than looking for something new in a story that I followed, but the series, while not perfect, did a damn good work in linking itself with the movie and the positive sides far outweighted the negatives IMO.
As for the music, I found myself pumped AF when Nockmaar castle appeared in the background with Enter Sandman playing, even more so at the end of the last episode with "Dark Elora" standing in front of the Crone's army and "Money for nothing" guitar's riff starting... How the f could anyone dislike that?
Fantasy doesn't mean strictly neither middle ages nor James Horner (granted that his works are god-tier level).

If anything, now I wanna know what will be of Graydon, who have become, episode by episode, the most interesting character. And, being nostalgic AND somebody who had a childhood crush for Sorsha, I'd be ECSTATIC to see Val Madmartigan Kilmer in season 2... But Val's health... Well, it was tough to watch him in Top Gun - Maverick. Still, me and thousands of fans wanna see him in again.

 

[Jussi]

The show went as I hoped, it started a bit slow and with some question marks (modern ending themes, quite few stoppages for a comedy moment, surprising costumes), bit it picked up episode by episode: characters developed brilliantly, storyline got more and more interesting, scenes got better and better. At the end I'm totally sold on this series and can't wait for season 2!
Note that I'm a die-hard Willow movie fan AND nostalgic so usually I lean towards the more "traditional approach" rather than looking for something new in a story that I followed, but the series, while not perfect, did a damn good work in linking itself with the movie and the positive sides far outweighted the negatives IMO.
As for the music, I found myself pumped AF when Nockmaar castle appeared in the background with Enter Sandman playing, even more so at the end of the last episode with "Dark Elora" standing in front of the Crone's army and "Money for nothing" guitar's riff starting... How the f could anyone dislike that?
Fantasy doesn't mean strictly neither middle ages nor James Horner (granted that his works are god-tier level).

If anything, now I wanna know what will be of Graydon, who have become, episode by episode, the most interesting character. And, being nostalgic AND somebody who had a childhood crush for Sorsha, I'd be ECSTATIC to see Val Madmartigan Kilmer in season 2... But Val's health... Well, it was tough to watch him in Top Gun - Maverick. Still, me and thousands of fans wanna see him in again.

What if it's the actual Val Kilmer that's reading the books and that will be revealed at the end of the show?

I first thought about the use of modern music as puzzling but I got used to it and I have to give credit for the song choices, many I had not even heard before but felt they actually fit in perfectly. And that ending with "Money For Nothing"... *chef's kiss*

I said it before but this really does feel like a modern day version of Xena, Warrior Princess or Hercules but with actual production values. Those shows had plenty of characters who spoke with a variety of English accents, used modern language and definitely didn't take themselves too seriously. Now that didn't stop them from having serious issues with character relationships and plots and I think the same goes with Willow. It's not like Val Kilmer spoke with an English accent in the movie. I must confess to seeing the movie maybe once and not remembering all too much from it.

Relating to the movie, the season finale had a higher rating on IMDB than the movie (7.3 compared to the movie's 7.2). The last three episodes are in that region too.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I enjoyed the show and am looking fwd to season 2.

My only complaint is that they haven’t introduced a villain you love to hate.

 

[Fighter]

I enjoyed the show and am looking fwd to season 2.

My only complaint is that they haven’t introduced a villain you love to hate.

The Crone's young impersonation is pretty hot if you ask me...

I liked last week's episode and this week's was even better, One of the longest Disney+ show episodes at 58 minutes, credit included. Some really gorgeous shots, I imagines some shot on The Volume. The night scene with Elora and Kit...

Yep, the Trolls' mine dungeon was damn cool, but Elora and Kit's night really sealed the deal for me, I was literally star-struck (pun intended).

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The Crone's young impersonation is pretty hot if you ask me...

Agreed, but she’s dead now, so she/it or whatever can’t be the main villain.

Maybe it will be Airk now that he’s evil an all.

I thought they mentioned something about another villain commanding the Crone, but forget who that was.