William Nylander

[notDatsyuk]

Did Mac have a few fly-by shifts in his game 7? I bet he was engaged and was trying despite the fact it was hard. Not Willy. He wouldn’t do it against Tampa and he sure as heck wasn’t doing it against Florida. He was so bad that Matthews called him out for being a passenger

Matthews said "too many passengers". Plural. He did not name anyone.

A few posters are trying to make it about one particular player.

 

[ULF_55]

He also got Weegar, and Huberdeau was coming off a 100+ point season. No one was beating that offer and Treliving HAD to move Tkachuk.

Huberdeau is a decent player with no grit.

 

[ZEBROA]

Nylander will not go anywere. Marner might. Matthews should if he got backproblems. Cant be hurt always. He should have taken this season to heal. If its a cronic thing, he should be moved.

 

[3blizzard4]

delete

 

[Nineteen67]

Matthews said "too many passengers". Plural. He did not name anyone.

A few posters are trying to make it about one particular player.

It is not about one guy. But in this thread we’re discussing passenger Nylander.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I don’t think Treliving WILLING traded Tkachuk for Huberdeau, his hands were kinda tied.

He also thought Jarnkrok was the deadline add that would put Calgary over the top. Other than a big defense I don’t really see much of a consistent “Treliving style” up front.

 

[DarkKnight]

Let's break some of this information down a bit here:

On the surface, round 2 of the playoffs has Willy, Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Knies, Domi looking like this:

	G	A	Pts	EV Pts	Shots	Hits	Blocks	Hits Taken	Takeaways	Giveaways	PK ToI
Nylander	3	3	6	5	19	3	3	9	1	5	0:04
Marner	1	4	5	4	8	17	11	14	1	7	14:12
Matthews	1	3	4	4	26	19	6	8	6	8	10:56
Tavares	2	0	2	1	23	13	7	11	1	9	0:05
Knies	2	2	4	4	15	19	4	7	1	6	11:47
Domi	2	3	5	4	11	6	1	5	2	5	0:00

Under the surface, then things get a bit more interesting.


Individually:

	ToI	Shots	Expected Goals	Scoring Chances	High Danger	Rebounds Created	Offensive Zone Starts	Defensive Zone Starts	O. Zone Faceoffs	D. Zone Faceoffs
Nylander	132:26	19	1.82	17	8	0	32	8	58	30
Marner	154:34	8	0.6	6	1	2	42	39	67	69
Matthews	143:34	26	3.33	26	14	7	40	37	67	69
Tavares	134:19	23	2.76	28	14	8	27	11	50	37
Knies	137:16	15	3.65	21	15	2	34	23	54	44
Domi	87:37	11	1.21	14	4	2	14	10	22	24

As a line:

	Shots For	Shots Against	Goals For	Goals Against	Expected Goals For	Expected Goals Against	Scoring Chances For	High Danger	Scoring Chances Against	High Danger
Nylander	78	82	7	7	10	6.61	83	42	74	25
Marner	67	58	7	9	9.55	5.66	75	40	79	23
Matthews	67	54	7	7	9.9	5.59	77	42	74	20
Tavares	77	83	6	9	10.42	6.36	75	41	70	27
Knies	63	50	7	10	9.11	6.54	72	37	79	24
Domi	39	42	5	2	4.2	3.82	32	13	42	17

What do these numbers show?

Well, they clearly illustrate a set of players whose job was to do nothing but generate offense.
It shows a different set of players whose job was to create offense, but also to stymie the offensive line of the opposition, and to kill penalties.

What it also shows, clearly, is that the set of players whose entire job was to generate offense, barely, if at all, outperformed the other set of players in that 1 duty they had.

As it pertains specifically to Nylander, these numbers paint a picture of a player:
1. Entirely offensive usage
2. Generally stayed in the perimeter with lots of shots and 0 rebounds created
3. Did not engage in physical play


That's purely from stats. The eye test showed that Nylander was very much engaged offensively, always looking for quick breaks, and generated quite a few breakaway chances.
Hmm, that seems to reinforce the idea gained from the stats.


Lastly, how did these players get matched up in the series?

Florida currently has 2 Selke finalists on that top line of theirs - Sasha Barkov and Sam Reinhart.

Let's say that the Leafs' top line faced off against those 2 players for 78 minutes each, while the 2nd line faced off against them for just over 32 minutes.

Sam Reinhart scored 50 goals last year. Barkov is a 90+ point player. They were neutralized by Matthews, Marner and Knies. Sure, they neutralized the Leafs' top line as well, and thus the biggest weapons for each team were essentially taken off the board.

And yet, the 2nd line for the Leafs, while facing drastically lesser opposition, did not fare well.

The protected zone starts is striking, and still way more shots given up. Hits and hits taken too snow a guy disinterested in playoff hockey. The Matthews line did all the heavy lifting, meanwhile JT and Willie were never in our end, but still managed give up a ton of shots and were actually net negative for and against. Imagine if JT wasn't great on the dot?

This confirms what I saw, his great performance is a mirage, he is a flawed player. 100 feet of desire. Someone else has to do the heavy lifting, this guy isn't equipped to pay the price. What a warrior.

 

[GoonieFace]

I’m shocked that playing with the slowest centre who isn’t good defensively and a 4th line/press box fodder Holmberg would mean that your defensive stats aren’t very good.

I would imagine on the same hand playing with a Selke level centre and a power 2 way winger who also PK’s, your defensive stats would be good.

This is shocking stuff.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The protected zone starts is striking, and still way more shots given up. Hits and hits taken too snow a guy disinterested in playoff hockey. The Matthews line did all the heavy lifting, meanwhile JT and Willie were never in our end, but still managed give up a ton of shots and were actually net negative for and against. Imagine if JT wasn't great on the dot?

This confirms what I saw, his great performance is a mirage, he is a flawed player. 100 feet of desire. Someone else has to do the heavy lifting, this guy isn't equipped to pay the price. What a warrior.

Agreed. Hitching our wagon to Nylander and the husk of Matthew$ could end up in disaster unless 34 can return to form and Nylander can be insulated by a bunch of stronger depth that the cap space will allow.

 

[ACC1224]

The protected zone starts is striking, and still way more shots given up. Hits and hits taken too snow a guy disinterested in playoff hockey. The Matthews line did all the heavy lifting, meanwhile JT and Willie were never in our end, but still managed give up a ton of shots and were actually net negative for and against. Imagine if JT wasn't great on the dot?

This confirms what I saw, his great performance is a mirage, he is a flawed player. 100 feet of desire. Someone else has to do the heavy lifting, this guy isn't equipped to pay the price. What a warrior.

Matches the eye test no doubt.

 

[IPS]

I’m shocked that playing with the slowest centre who isn’t good defensively and a 4th line/press box fodder Holmberg would mean that your defensive stats aren’t very good.

I would imagine on the same hand playing with a Selke level centre and a power 2 way winger who also PK’s, your defensive stats would be good.

This is shocking stuff.

The Nylander thread is the new Marner thread for the PR crew

 

[DarkKnight]

Agreed. Hitching our wagon to Nylander and the husk of Matthew$ could end up in disaster unless 34 can return to form and Nylander can be insulated by a bunch of stronger depth that the cap space will allow.

You could argue we’re past peak.

Willie is an all world offensive specimen. He also has a great ability to not let stuff get to him, he’s unflappable in some regards. Every team is lucky to have a guy like him, but the question is can you win with him as the primary line? When there isn’t another layer, can he be the man? I’m sceptical because his defensive play is a liability, he needs protection, that in and of itself tells a story. He was a passenger when it mattered, he isn’t absolved like some here are trying, and bringing up other players is irrelevant to his culpability.

I will not apologize for getting upset watching his bullshit defensive play, I don’t care what number is on the jersey, that crap drives me crazy and you won’t win with this effort. Compete isn’t an opinion.

 

[IPS]

Can we decipher who got to play with the McCabe-Tanev pairing the most?

That I think will add some prominent context to this.

 

[DarkKnight]

Matches the eye test no doubt.

Absolutely does, his projection PR crew can laugh all they want, those numbers are hard and revealing. Now it’s all JT’s fault too, lol.

Willie deserves scrutiny deal with it fanboys.

 

[IPS]

Absolutely does, his projection PR crew can laugh all they want, those numbers are hard and revealing. Now it’s all JT’s fault too, lol.

Willie deserves scrutiny deal with it fanboys.

As is your prerogative!

 

[DarkKnight]

As is your prerogative!

And I will exercise it lol.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It is not about one guy. But in this thread we’re discussing passenger Nylander.

You said Matthews called him out for being a passenger. I was just correcting you.

Matthews said there were too many passengers. Plural, and he did not name anyone.

 

[Nineteen67]

You said Matthews called him out for being a passenger. I was just correcting you.

Matthews said there were too many passengers. Plural, and he did not name anyone.

I can read between the lines and Nylander was one of the passengers he was talking about. We all saw it, it was too hard, so Willy was one of the guys that quit. By listening to his comments since that game it’s clear it wasn’t worth enough to him.

 

[thewave]

I can read between the lines and Nylander was one of the passengers he was talking about. We all saw it, it was too hard, so Willy was one of the guys that quit. By listening to his comments since that game it’s clear it wasn’t worth enough to him.

The coach did nothing to adjust to Maurice's adjustments. Marner kept sucking the whole time. I would have been pissed off too. Watching the team getting wrecked and being put with freaking holmberg. Give me a break. He was trying too, he was just jammed up every freaking time unless he picked out a breakaway.

Sorry but this is a weak take from you.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I can read between the lines and Nylander was one of the passengers he was talking about. We all saw it, it was too hard, so Willy was one of the guys that quit. By listening to his comments since that game it’s clear it wasn’t worth enough to him.

First, that's your interpretation of who Matthews was talking about.

Second, Nylander said he didn't play well. If you think that meant either that he quit or that the game wasn't worth it, that's your interpretation.

 

[Nineteen67]

First, that's your interpretation of who Matthews was talking about.

Second, Nylander said he didn't play well. If you think that meant either that he quit or that the game wasn't worth it, that's your interpretation.

He didn’t play well because he can’t play well in that type of game. It’s too hard and he doesn’t have skill set to play. We watched him bail against McDonagh when the Lightning made a horrible line change and gifted them an opportunity at a game tying chance and his actions said it’s not worth it, and the exact same thing on Sunday.
If it’s easy, he’s fine, if it’s too hard, he’s not sacrificing.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The protected zone starts is striking, and still way more shots given up. Hits and hits taken too snow a guy disinterested in playoff hockey. The Matthews line did all the heavy lifting, meanwhile JT and Willie were never in our end, but still managed give up a ton of shots and were actually net negative for and against. Imagine if JT wasn't great on the dot?

This confirms what I saw, his great performance is a mirage, he is a flawed player. 100 feet of desire. Someone else has to do the heavy lifting, this guy isn't equipped to pay the price. What a warrior.

Interesting selective reasoning.

I'm not sure how third in hits taken, most goals, points, and high danger chances for (and not the most against) show 'disnterested'.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He didn’t play well because he can’t play well in that type of game. It’s too hard and he doesn’t have skill set to play. We watched him bail against McDonagh when the Lightning made a horrible line change and gifted them an opportunity at a game tying chance and his actions said it’s not worth it, and the exact same thing on Sunday.
If it’s easy, he’s fine, if it’s too hard, he’s not sacrificing.

Your interpretations are getting farther and farther from reality.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

[Nineteen67]

Your interpretations are getting farther and farther from reality.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

I still remember Sunday, and the past 9 yrs. I know some are trying change the narrative, like every other year, but we all saw it and the reality doesn’t change.

 

[studebaker17]

One could do a more detailed break-down game 3 onwards.


Game 3:

There is absolutely no question that Toronto should have won that game. Woll was abysmal in the game and gave up 2 really bad goals, an ok goal, and then the OT goal came from that 2nd line getting hemmed in so badly that Nylander literally stood still for lengths of time. And it wasn't a great goal to allow either.

Anyway, Barkov, at Even Strength, vs Toronto in Game 3:

	ToI	Shots For	Shots Against	Scoring Chances For	Scoring Chances Against	xG For	xG Against	High Danger Chances	High Danger Against	Goals For	Goals Against
Matthews	5:55	4	3	5	6	.82	.51	2	3	1	1
Marner	6:18	1	3	1	6	.12	.51	0	3	1	1
Knies	6:01	1	3	1	6	.12	.51	0	3	1	1
Tavares	10:10	7	2	4	0	.39	.05	1	0	0	0
Nylander	9:31	10	2	8	0	1.1	.05	3	0	0	0

That 2nd line of the Leafs got absolutely decimated all night long, and was very lucky that Barkov didn't light them up.




Game 4:

Obviously, nobody did well in that game, except Woll. He was phenomenal. I mean, Bob was very good, if relatively untested.

Anyway, Barkov at Even Strength, vs Toronto in Game 4:

	ToI	Shots For	Shots Against	Scoring Chances For	Scoring Chances Against	xG For	xG Against	High Danger For	High Danger Against	Goals	Goals Against
Matthews	2:27	1	1	2	0	.11	.01	1	0	0	0
Marner	2:58	1	1	2	0	.11	.01	1	0	0	0
Knies	2:28	1	1	2	0	.11	.01	1	0	0	0
Tavares	7:43	6	4	5	2	.32	.18	1	2	0	0
Nylander	7:13	5	3	5	2	.3	.18	1	2	0	0

Interestingly, Matthews, Marner and Knies played against the line that absolutely demolished our 2nd line the rest of the series (at Even Strength):
Lundell, Luostarinen, and Marchand

This is how our first line (Matthews specifically, but a fair representation of the other 2 as well) fared against that 3rd line of Florida, in Game 4.

	ToI	Shots	Shots Againt	Scoring Chances For	Scoring Chances Against	xG For	xG Against	High Danger For	High Danger Against
Marchand	9:25	3	1	8	3	.92	.06	5	1
Lundell	10:16	4	2	8	4	.93	.32	5	2
Luostarinen	10:22	4	2	8	4	.93	.32	5	2

what were the d matchups ? Game 7 was jones against Mathews , Ekblad / Forsling against Nylander.
No matter what the forward matchups the Cats can send out 3 stellar defensive lines . Splitting hairs saying who's matched to who.