William Nylander

[notDatsyuk]

assists and goals are just as important as they both help the team win IMO, but more importantly his goals are coming at the expense of his total points, he is pacing for his lowest totals in the last 3 years.

a 50 goal 82 point player and a 25 goal 82 point player both help the team just as much, and even if they didn't a 50 goal 82 point player would not help the team more than a 30 goal 100 point player

if this nylander is worth 11.5 million, then what was last years nylander worth, he scored 6 less goals (pacewise) but had 21 more assists. Was he worth 12M like mcdavid or mackinnon? How about 14M like Draisaitl? Or maybe he was the best player in the league and worth 20M.


How so?

He is T-37th with guys like Jason Robertson, Travis Konecny, Matt Duschene, Sam Reinhart, Lucas Raymond

again he makes 11.5M that is top 10 in the league. I don't really care how much that will be in 2-3 years from now because he wasn't been worth it this year.

Guys like Marner, Pastrnak, Panarin, Rantanen, are all outproducing him and these are what he thought were his comprables at the time of signing

people like him because he is the best at talking to the media and he scores for us in losing efforts. I just expect more from him on an 11.5M caphit, especially since he did it last year, but I guess everyone is fine with a ppg player

"the goals are coming at the expense of his total points". Watching the games it's obvious that he is setting up his teammates the same if not more, but the goals aren't coming. Your argument makes sense only if you think of a player in isolation, without considering that hockey is a team sport.

Tied for 37th isn't bad considering that there are 96 forwards on the top line on their respective teams, and he's on the second line, playing with second liners.

"he scores for us in losing efforts" but he leads the team in game winning goals (and his only regular linemate is second), and is tied for third in the league in gwgs (and his linemate is sixth).

I don't suppose I should even mention that over the last 4 playoffs he leads the team in goals and is tied with Matthews for gwgs.

 

[arso40]

"the goals are coming at the expense of his total points". Watching the games it's obvious that he is setting up his teammates the same if not more, but the goals aren't coming. Your argument makes sense only if you think of a player in isolation, without considering that hockey is a team sport.

Tied for 37th isn't bad considering that there are 96 forwards on the top line on their respective teams, and he's on the second line, playing with second liners.

"he scores for us in losing efforts" but he leads the team in game winning goals (and his only regular linemate is second), and is tied for third in the league in gwgs (and his linemate is sixth).

I don't suppose I should even mention that over the last 4 playoffs he leads the team in goals and is tied with Matthews for gwgs.

Ignore him and his dumb agenda makes no sense it’s call misdirection marner and matthews have been ass together since 4 nations matter of fact the whole year

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Where was this energy when Matthews was highest paid marner was top 5 paid ?

you can go through my post history tbf, I don't target just nylander. Believe it or not he is my favourite of the core 4, I even have a poster of his up in my room, I just don't think he's lived up to his contract this season the most of the three amigos so far (although matthews is right behind him).

Sustaining that production would see him as one of the most prolific goal scorers in history, eclipsing the likes of Bobby Hull before his contract was up, and you're turning your nose up at the cheque?

I'm just saying this isn't the year to complain, he's not going to do that, but it shows you've clearly stepped outside of reality here.

If you don't like his price point, just wait until he isn't the second best goal scorer in the league to be angry about it.

This entire point doesn't make sense:
1. Bobby Hull had a 47 goal pace through a 1000+ career, highly doubt nylander ever touches that
2. Bobby Hull's totals are lower because he played alot of his peak/prime in the WHA
3. the NHL was way lower scoring back then vs now
4. Hull won 3 rosses, 2 harts (6 more top 3), and was a NHL Allstar 1st team player 10 times
5. Hull also paced for 43 assists which is a 90 point player, In this environment i would expect more from nylander than 90 points but t would be much beter than the 83 he is on pace for rn
If he shows up come playoff time, I will shut up, but he hasn't performed for his contract this season, plain and simple

Tied for 37th isn't bad considering that there are 96 forwards on the top line on their respective teams, and he's on the second line, playing with second liners.

He is playing with a C who has 24 goals in 55 games, so he knows how to finish something so nylander might not be utilizing him correctly. Again linemates aren't an excuse as A) guys on that list have similar linemates to him, B) he is playing 19:54 which is 1 second less than last year and is 32nd in the league for forwards (min 25 games played) that is 1st line minutes. In fact lets take a look at minutes vs some comparables than

(All stats from hockey-reference)
Player | EV Minutes | PP Minutes | Total
Nylander | 1021 | 210 | 1233
Marner | 987 | 189 | 1317
Pastrak | 1039 | 236 | 1277
Duchene | 891 | 157 | 1054
Robertson | 899 | 185 | 1085
Konecny | 1037 | 168 | 1281
Rantanen | 1097 | 240 | 1339

so he plays the 4th most even strength minutes, the 3rd most pp minutes and the 5th most minutes total out of those guys but he isn't outpacing a single one of them, and is actually being outpaced by half of them. so no he doesn't play "second line" we just have two first lines.

I already addressed the linemates arguement which I guess you glossed over but he has better/around the same linemates this year vs last year yet has almost 20 less points at this point in time..Also those guys also play with bad linemates (not all, but some do).

"he scores for us in losing efforts" but he leads the team in game winning goals (and his only regular linemate is second), and is tied for third in the league in gwgs (and his linemate is sixth).

I don't suppose I should even mention that over the last 4 playoffs he leads the team in goals and is tied with Matthews for gwgs.

Leading a first round exitteam in GWG's isn't that impressive. We have won 14 total playoff games in that span...that's not enough to get a single stanley cup.

the "he scores for us in losing efforts" was speaking towards the playoffs where he scored in last years loss in game 7, in montreal game 7 when we were down 3-0 and a few other goals like that. A weak point I admit looking at it now though.

Ignore him and his dumb agenda makes no sense it’s call misdirection marner and matthews have been ass together since 4 nations matter of fact the whole year

I am not trying to "push some agenda or misdirect" I have made my concerns with Matthews clear the entire season. Marner not as much as he has been playing very well (not as much recently but he gets a little pass because of how good he was pre-4 nations).

I am simply pointing out what I think about his play specificallly in his thread, If you want I can start talking about Matthews and derail the entire thread but that just seems like a waste for this thread, so i am keeping it strictly to nylander.

Finally, two things can be true, Nylander an be a good player and still be overpaid. Which is what I am saying, I don't think this should be very controversial, but I guess it's new to some having him labeled as that as he spent the last 3 years being the opposite, but that's how a steep contract increase such as his works.

 

[BraveCanadian]

If he scores the second most goals in the league every year (from the second line no less) his contract is a discount. There may be years to complain about, but this isn't one of them.

He won’t, and it is..

 

[GoonieFace]

you can go through my post history tbf, I don't target just nylander. Believe it or not he is my favourite of the core 4, I even have a poster of his up in my room, I just don't think he's lived up to his contract this season the most of the three amigos so far (although matthews is right behind him).


This entire point doesn't make sense:
1. Bobby Hull had a 47 goal pace through a 1000+ career, highly doubt nylander ever touches that
2. Bobby Hull's totals are lower because he played alot of his peak/prime in the WHA
3. the NHL was way lower scoring back then vs now
4. Hull won 3 rosses, 2 harts (6 more top 3), and was a NHL Allstar 1st team player 10 times
5. Hull also paced for 43 assists which is a 90 point player, In this environment i would expect more from nylander than 90 points but t would be much beter than the 83 he is on pace for rn
If he shows up come playoff time, I will shut up, but he hasn't performed for his contract this season, plain and simple


He is playing with a C who has 24 goals in 55 games, so he knows how to finish something so nylander might not be utilizing him correctly. Again linemates aren't an excuse as A) guys on that list have similar linemates to him, B) he is playing 19:54 which is 1 second less than last year and is 32nd in the league for forwards (min 25 games played) that is 1st line minutes. In fact lets take a look at minutes vs some comparables than

(All stats from hockey-reference)
Player | EV Minutes | PP Minutes | Total
Nylander | 1021 | 210 | 1233
Marner | 987 | 189 | 1317
Pastrak | 1039 | 236 | 1277
Duchene | 891 | 157 | 1054
Robertson | 899 | 185 | 1085
Konecny | 1037 | 168 | 1281
Rantanen | 1097 | 240 | 1339

so he plays the 4th most even strength minutes, the 3rd most pp minutes and the 5th most minutes total out of those guys but he isn't outpacing a single one of them, and is actually being outpaced by half of them. so no he doesn't play "second line" we just have two first lines.

I already addressed the linemates arguement which I guess you glossed over but he has better/around the same linemates this year vs last year yet has almost 20 less points at this point in time..Also those guys also play with bad linemates (not all, but some do).


Leading a first round exitteam in GWG's isn't that impressive. We have won 14 total playoff games in that span...that's not enough to get a single stanley cup.

the "he scores for us in losing efforts" was speaking towards the playoffs where he scored in last years loss in game 7, in montreal game 7 when we were down 3-0 and a few other goals like that. A weak point I admit looking at it now though.


I am not trying to "push some agenda or misdirect" I have made my concerns with Matthews clear the entire season. Marner not as much as he has been playing very well (not as much recently but he gets a little pass because of how good he was pre-4 nations).

I am simply pointing out what I think about his play specificallly in his thread, If you want I can start talking about Matthews and derail the entire thread but that just seems like a waste for this thread, so i am keeping it strictly to nylander.

Finally, two things can be true, Nylander an be a good player and still be overpaid. Which is what I am saying, I don't think this should be very controversial, but I guess it's new to some having him labeled as that as he spent the last 3 years being the opposite, but that's how a steep contract increase such as his works.

No one would argue he is not overpaid. But it doesn’t take away from the fact that he has the 2nd most goals in the league, included the 3rd most at 5v5. Strange thing to go on a rant about

 

[thewave]

He won’t, and it is..

People pay more for goal scoring. His contract would be fine if he were a L1C. 40 goal second liners are rare, probably unheard of lol

 

[notDatsyuk]

Among forwards he's 25th in points, 28th in ES points, and 20th in PP points.

Among right wingers he is first in goals, 11th in assists and 6th in points.

Those are horrible numbers for a second line player.

 

[ACC1224]

he's a good player, but man did we overpay him by like 2-3M. He get's his one point a game and that's all, he creates almost exactly how much he gives up on EVS. Dude is on pace for < 40 assists, the last time he did that was 2020-2021. He is basically around the same level as the 19-20 season as a 23 year old making 7M

between matthews's, his and marners potential contracts we will have used 5-7M more than we should've.

He isn't even close to a pastrnak and he got way too close to him interms of percentage. He should've been around 10-11%, not anywhere near 13% like pastrnak

marner is a 13% player, and matthews (when he feels like playing) is a 14%

Overpaid no doubt but he’s putting the puck in the net which is a need.
He excels in the 3rd wheel role here, exploiting the secondary matchups and cheating for offense.

 

[Menzinger]

assists and goals are just as important as they both help the team win IMO, but more importantly his goals are coming at the expense of his total points, he is pacing for his lowest totals in the last 3 years.

a 50 goal 82 point player and a 25 goal 82 point player both help the team just as much, and even if they didn't a 50 goal 82 point player would not help the team more than a 30 goal 100 point player

if this nylander is worth 11.5 million, then what was last years nylander worth, he scored 6 less goals (pacewise) but had 21 more assists. Was he worth 12M like mcdavid or mackinnon? How about 14M like Draisaitl? Or maybe he was the best player in the league and worth 20M.

I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that secondary assists are as valuable as primary assists, let alone goals, so I'd reject the suggestion that assist totals should be viewed as equal value to goals. Using your own example, id guarantee you a 50 goal scorer this off-season would get more in free agency than the 25 goal 57 assist guy

Nylander salary reflects the player he's been the last few seasons and what they think he's going to be moving forward. Looking at production alone I think one can make the case his value was greater than 11.5 mil last year, but since he doesn't have a history of repeating that his salary is lowered by the average/projection

Funnily, Nylanders primary point % is higher this season than his fantastic one last year.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

No one would argue he is not overpaid. But it doesn’t take away from the fact that he has the 2nd most goals in the league, included the 3rd most at 5v5. Strange thing to go on a rant about

Overpaid no doubt but he’s putting the puck in the net which is a need.
He excels in the 3rd wheel role here, exploiting the secondary matchups and cheating for offense.

But we need him to do more than just score goals, he needs to be elevating other players to greater levels so we can have more scoring from other too vs just him.

I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that secondary assists are as valuable as primary assists, let alone goals, so I'd reject the suggestion that assist totals should be viewed as equal value to goals. Using your own example, id guarantee you a 50 goal scorer this off-season would get more in free agency than the 25 goal 57 assist guy

Nylander salary reflects the player he's been the last few seasons and what they think he's going to be moving forward. Looking at production alone I think one can make the case his value was greater than 11.5 mil last year, but since he doesn't have a history of repeating that his salary is lowered by the average/projection

Funnily, Nylanders primary point % is higher this season than his fantastic one last year.

well nylander's on pace for 14 less primary assists this season vs last (35 vs 21) and he is on pace for 6 more goals (46 vs 40) so he is on pace for 8 less primary points (75 vs 67), he is also on pace for 7 less powerpoints too and 21 secondary assists vs 23 last season.

so he on pace for less primary assists, less secondary assists, less powerplay points, doesn't pk anymore.

His production is inline with guys like Reinhart and Bratt and should've been paid like those guys (10ish% of the cap) not the pastrnak's of the world

Nylander last year wasn't worth 11.5 by the end, take pastrnak for example. He was once pace for 60 goals and 120ish points and he was the better player every year of their careers and he got 11.25M (13.47%) of the cap. So Pastrnak had the production and the history of repeating in the past, but he got an identical contract.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Overpaid no doubt but he’s putting the puck in the net which is a need.
He excels in the 3rd wheel role here, exploiting the secondary matchups and cheating for offense.

He does, but the numbers don't lie. Even with those matchups, Nylander is barely a net positive. He breaks games open both ways.. people just have a selective memory and focus on the ones he helps win instead of the ones he helps lose.

They need to find some very defensively responsible players to shelter him with to get more out of him.

The other problem of course is paying 11.5 for a 3rd wheel in the first place..

 

[Dekes For Days]

I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that secondary assists are as valuable as primary assists, let alone goals, so I'd reject the suggestion that assist totals should be viewed as equal value to goals.

Secondary assists could be argued to be less valuable than goals, but primary assists are just as valuable.

Funnily, Nylanders primary point % is higher this season than his fantastic one last year.

His primary point pace is down though.

2016/17: 46
2017/18: 48
2018/19: 26
2019/20: 59
2020/21: 53
2021/22: 69
2022/23: 67
2023/24: 76
2024/25: 67

It's great he's scoring goals, but this season isn't really more impactful than 2021-2022 or 2022-2023, let alone last year. He's just skewed a bit more towards goalscoring than playmaking. Last year seems to be a bit of an outlier.

 

[ULF_55]

Should have shot on the 2v1 in overtime.

Passing off to lessor shooters on empty nets is fine, but that wasn't the correct move.

...

Nylander is:

• Tied for 24th. for PP goals.
• Third for ES goals
• 4 goals behind Draisaitl for ES goals.

 

[ACC1224]

Should have shot on the 2v1 in overtime.

Passing off to lessor shooters on empty nets is fine, but that wasn't the correct move.

...

Nylander is:

• Tied for 24th. for PP goals.
• Third for ES goals
• 4 goals behind Draisaitl for ES goals.

Yep having a great year no doubt.

 

[ACC1224]

Thursday against the Panthers was the most engaged we've seen him in a long time, maybe ever.
Hopefully he keeps it up.

 

[IPS]

He does, but the numbers don't lie. Even with those matchups, Nylander is barely a net positive. He breaks games open both ways.. people just have a selective memory and focus on the ones he helps win instead of the ones he helps lose.

It's almost like there's 5 other players on the ice too

 

[BraveCanadian]

It's almost like there's 5 other players on the ice too

Generally I agree. However, anyone with eyeballs can see how Nylander cheats for offense, and is generally awful in his own zone when he occasionally goes there.

 

[IPS]

Generally I agree. However, anyone with eyeballs can see how Nylander cheats for offense, and is generally awful in his own zone when he occasionally goes there.

He definitely does but it's comical how much you guys blow it out of proportion.

Patrick Kane was generally terrible at defence too but it never got focused on becasue all the other amazing things he did. I didn't see any Blackhawks fans running around claiming Hossa was superior cause of how much better his defensive game was.

 

[BraveCanadian]

He definitely does but it's comical how much you guys blow it out of proportion.

Patrick Kane was generally terrible at defence too but it never got focused on becasue all the other amazing things he did. I didn't see any Blackhawks fans running around claiming Hossa was superior cause of how much better his defensive game was.

The only reason Kane could do what he did was because he had absolute studs like Toews, Keith and Hossa around him. That doesn't magically make him better. You're basically describing the whitewashing that "winning" absolves everything just like everyone saying Nylander is fine because he's 2nd in goals.. because that is all there is..

Not to mention Kane was better than Nylander will ever be at the one thing Nylander is good at which is offense.

 

[IPS]

The only reason Kane could do what he did was because he had absolute studs like Toews, Keith and Hossa around him. That doesn't magically make him better. You're basically describing the whitewashing that "winning" absolves everything just like everyone saying Nylander is fine because he's 2nd in goals.. because that is all there is..

Not to mention Kane was better than Nylander will ever be at the one thing Nylander is good at which is offense.

You're completely missing the point but if you wanna argue something like that, that's fine too.

The point I'm trying to make is that winger's defensive games do not get perceived around the rest of the league like you see how they get purported on this board.

 

[BraveCanadian]

You're completely missing the point but if you wanna argue something like that, that's fine too.

The point I'm trying to make is that winger's defensive games do not get perceived around the rest of the league like you see how they get purported on this board.

Well that is just, like, your opinion, man.

My opinion is that while defense tends to matter less for wingers than the other positions, it is still important and factors into their value because the object of the game is to score more goals and allow less goals than the opposition. Pretty simple logic. The difference between a Marner and a Nylander on the allow less goals front is absolutely massive and absolutely factors in how successful our team is when they are respectively on the ice.

 

[IPS]

Well that is just, like, your opinion, man.

My opinion is that while defense tends to matter less for wingers than the other positions, it is still important and factors into their value because the object of the game is to score more goals and allow less goals than the opposition. Pretty simple logic. The difference between a Marner and a Nylander on the allow less goals front is absolutely massive and absolutely factors in how successful our team is when they are respectively on the ice.

Fair enough. When you have the rest of the structure soundly in place, a scoring winger like Nylander's defensive game can certainly be much easier to overlook. But nonetheless lots of cup winners do feature a high scoring winger with a weak defensive game as a crucial and important piece to the team - like Florida with Tkachuk or Chicago with Kane referenced earlier.

 

[thewave]

You're completely missing the point but if you wanna argue something like that, that's fine too.

The point I'm trying to make is that winger's defensive games do not get perceived around the rest of the league like you see how they get purported on this board.

Defensive C's are way more impactful on a game than a RW. 100% true and it's probably 3 fold or more.

 

[IPS]

Defensive C's are way more impactful on a game than a RW. 100% true and it's probably 3 fold or more.

Kopitar, Bergeron and Toews held the value they did because they provided that game as the #1C. It simply does not work that way with wingers.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Fair enough. When you have the rest of the structure soundly in place, a scoring winger like Nylander's defensive game can certainly be much easier to overlook. But nonetheless lots of cup winners do feature a high scoring winger with a weak defensive game as a crucial and important piece to the team - like Florida with Tkachuk or Chicago with Kane referenced earlier.

Let me know when that is the case on the Leafs.

Defensive C's are way more impactful on a game than a RW. 100% true and it's probably 3 fold or more.

That may be true, but that doesn't mean it isn't valuable. As we'll find out (again) when Marner resigns.