Player Discussion William Nylander

[Menzinger]

Obviously my opinion but pretty much universally accepted but you would certainly be welcomed into the minority though.

I think one can absolutely make the case for that to be but with that also comes the responsibility that those top two guys in particular will face the lions share of the blame if the team doesn't advance out of the first round yet again

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not being a smartass as I'm recovering from surgery and maybe it's going over my head, but what's the third column? Goals-Assists-??

Goals-Primary assists-Secondary assists. Hope you recover well.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I think the 3 core forwards in the line-up have looked so much better the past several games.

Supported by Knies and McMann, they've done well.

Looked like a much more cohesive team, all pulling together for the team.

It seems when the coach stops calling them a "Group" and they are expected to work hard every game...things like Team arise from the effort. These guys look like they are finally getting it...there is no easier path...it's just plain old hard work that wins cups.

 

[Jmo89]

Goals-Primary assists-Secondary assists. Hope you recover well.

Got it. Thanks and thanks.

 

[sunstersun]

I like Berube double shifting Nylander on the PP.

 

[arso40]

I like Berube double shifting Nylander on the PP.

Now he needs to make it count

 

[Fogelhund]

Defense creates offense... a great effort in the dzone, stripping the puck, leads to the goal. He's played a good overall game of late.

 

[ULF_55]

Defense creates offense... a great effort in the dzone, stripping the puck, leads to the goal. He's played a good overall game of late.

Won 6 of 9 face-offs yesterday.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Won 6 of 9 face-offs yesterday.

Over the last 4 games he's second on the team in faceoffs taken after JT, and his winning % of 56.1 is second to JT (well, third because his brother is 1 for 1).

 

[Confucius]

With 14 goals 1/4 of the way through the season William is just 2 off the league lead. Maybe he can win a rocket this year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

With 14 goals 1/4 of the way through the season William is just 2 off the league lead. Maybe he can win a rocket this year.

Individual awards mean very little to me as long as we keep losing in the playoffs, but I've always said that they'd be a nice cherry on top if we ever do go deep. That said, If William was able to do this, is would be super cool and would hopefully put to bed this nonsense that his play last season was due to it being a contract year. And maybe this is the year that we finally do go deep, you never know. To go deep, these are the key things that need to happen IMO.

1) More reliable/consistent goaltending.
2) Better D-core, and commitment to team D throughout the roster.
3) Get used playing playoff style hockey early on, don't leave it to April.
4) M&M&JT need to not have a massive drop off in producing offence.

The first 3 points seem to be in good shape ATM, have to give Tre a lot of credit here for improving the D, the goaltending and perhaps most important, the coaching.

Point #4 is the big one. Even with the first 3 points taken care of, you still need to score goals in order to win games. Willie's the only one of the big 4 who's production doesn't substantially drop off in the playoffs, maybe he can share whatever he's smoking with the other 3 (especially Marner) because if they can change that narrative, I do like our chances. This core has failed us time and time again. Those wasted years/opportunities are never coming back but just win one cup and all will be forgiven.

 

[sunstersun]

Individual awards mean very little to me as long as we keep losing in the playoffs, but I've always said that they'd be a nice cherry on top if we ever do go deep. That said, If William was able to do this, is would be super cool and would hopefully put to bed this nonsense that his play last season was due to it being a contract year. And maybe this is the year that we finally do go deep, you never know. To go deep, these are the key things that need to happen IMO.

1) More reliable/consistent goaltending.
2) Better D-core, and commitment to team D throughout the roster.
3) Get used playing playoff style hockey early on, don't leave it to April.
4) M&M&JT need to not have a massive drop off in producing offence.

The first 3 points seem to be in good shape ATM, have to give Tre a lot of credit here for improving the D, the goaltending and perhaps most important, the coaching.

Point #4 is the big one. Even with the first 3 points taken care of, you still need to score goals in order to win games. Willie's the only one of the big 4 who's production doesn't substantially drop off in the playoffs, maybe he can share whatever he's smoking with the other 3 (especially Marner) because if they can change that narrative, I do like our chances. This core has failed us time and time again. Those wasted years/opportunities are never coming back but just win one cup and all will be forgiven.

1) We probably win a playoff series this year based on this alone. Still, good goaltending has masked meh offensive play.

2) I'm confident it's better than last year, but it's not as good as people think. Advanced stats have hated Morgan Rielly. I'm not going to be shocked if he is just outright declining. OEL is good, but Tanev is an offensive blackhole. I'm scared we're going to get 0 contributions from the blue line in the playoffs again. Defensively, yeah it's better. How much better compared to say 2021? Not sure. Would people be drooling over the D with last years goaltending? I doubt it.

3) Yes total agree.

4) I'm not confident in 4 at all. Our 5 on 5 this year has looked bad. Yeah part of it is injury, part of it a is a new system yada yada.

Our bottom 6 is still horrendous. We have a gaping hole at centre. Only redeemed by Tavares finding the fountain of youth. Still maintain we need to get him off the PP. We're going to need 3/4 of the core to perform every game when last playoff series was Matthews for game 2, Marner for game 5, and Nylander game 6 and 7. It's not sustainable.

 

[Gary Nylund]

1) We probably win a playoff series this year based on this alone. Still, good goaltending has masked meh offensive play.

2) I'm confident it's better than last year, but it's not as good as people think. Advanced stats have hated Morgan Rielly. I'm not going to be shocked if he is just outright declining. OEL is good, but Tanev is an offensive blackhole. I'm scared we're going to get 0 contributions from the blue line in the playoffs again. Defensively, yeah it's better. How much better compared to say 2021? Not sure. Would people be drooling over the D with last years goaltending? I doubt it.

3) Yes total agree.

4) I'm not confident in 4 at all. Our 5 on 5 this year has looked bad. Yeah part of it is injury, part of it a is a new system yada yada.

Our bottom 6 is still horrendous. We have a gaping hole at centre. Only redeemed by Tavares finding the fountain of youth. Still maintain we need to get him off the PP. We're going to need 3/4 of the core to perform every game when last playoff series was Matthews for game 2, Marner for game 5, and Nylander game 6 and 7. It's not sustainable.

Good points IMO, agree with all this. I wasn't aware of what the advanced stats say about Rielly, I've been focused on how good the new guys have been. I thought our D was really good two years ago and I don't see that we're any better today, I guess I would say that our D isn't a strength, maybe just that is' not a weakness. Agree that we're not as good on D as some people seem to think, yes Tanve and OEL have been very good but Rielly is declining and when Brodie and Gio were good, they were good so I don't see that this is our best D in decades, it's maybe on par with what it was when we added McCabe and Schenn. Team D is the thing though, and that's been good.

The bottom 6 is a problem, I would like to see M&M&N on 3 different lines and that might go a long way to helping this situation. As I said, we do need to score goals regardless of everything else and since our depth scoring is non-existent, we need the big guys to come through. Ideally we'd have both - depth scoring and the big guys producing but if the D is good enough, getting one of the two might be enough.

But yeah, one way or the other, point #4 is the big question mark. In the end it comes down to the 4 forwards taking up half the cap space, if they keep failing then we're not going to go far. Maybe win a series or two but that's just enough at this point.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Individual awards mean very little to me as long as we keep losing in the playoffs, but I've always said that they'd be a nice cherry on top if we ever do go deep. That said, If William was able to do this, is would be super cool and would hopefully put to bed this nonsense that his play last season was due to it being a contract year. And maybe this is the year that we finally do go deep, you never know. To go deep, these are the key things that need to happen IMO.

1) More reliable/consistent goaltending.
2) Better D-core, and commitment to team D throughout the roster.
3) Get used playing playoff style hockey early on, don't leave it to April.
4) M&M&JT need to not have a massive drop off in producing offence.

The first 3 points seem to be in good shape ATM, have to give Tre a lot of credit here for improving the D, the goaltending and perhaps most important, the coaching.

Point #4 is the big one. Even with the first 3 points taken care of, you still need to score goals in order to win games. Willie's the only one of the big 4 who's production doesn't substantially drop off in the playoffs, maybe he can share whatever he's smoking with the other 3 (especially Marner) because if they can change that narrative, I do like our chances. This core has failed us time and time again. Those wasted years/opportunities are never coming back but just win one cup and all will be forgiven.

Many a Cup has been won with only 1 consistent goal scorer .. look at Devils .. my point is your #4 point can be overcome with depth of scoring .. issue is da CAP spend on 4 players which affects depth .. but 1-3 are a MUST have to WIN a Cup

 

[Gary Nylund]

Many a Cup has been won with only 1 consistent goal scorer .. look at Devils .. my point is your #4 point can be overcome with depth of scoring .. issue is da CAP spend on 4 players which affects depth .. but 1-3 are a MUST have to WIN a Cup

That's my thinking as well. 1-3 are must have's, and we seem to be in pretty good shape there so #4 is the biggest question. It's kind of insane, we're paying half the cap to 4 guys, they're all forwards and we can't get a goal when we need one?

I suppose you can complain about depth scoring but we're paying the big 4 so much, I think they simply have to get it done. Get it done this spring and if they can't do that, say goodbye to Marner and JT and use that cap space to build a better balanced team.

 

[ULF_55]

That's my thinking as well. 1-3 are must have's, and we seem to be in pretty good shape there so #4 is the biggest question. It's kind of insane, we're paying half the cap to 4 guys, they're all forwards and we can't get a goal when we need one?

I suppose you can complain about depth scoring but we're paying the big 4 so much, I think they simply have to get it done. Get it done this spring and if they can't do that, say goodbye to Marner and JT and use that cap space to build a better balanced team.

What is bad is the top 10 goal scorers the last 3 playoffs include ... look at the bottom.

Jake Muzzin outscored several with twice the games.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What is bad is the top 10 goal scorers the last 3 playoffs include ... look at the bottom.

View attachment 936405

Jake Muzzin outscored several with twice the games.

View attachment 936409

That is bad indeed. The big 4 haven't gotten it done and because they take up so much of the cap, there is nothing left over to spend on depth so here we are.

 

[ULF_55]

That is bad indeed. The big 4 haven't gotten it done and because they take up so much of the cap, there is nothing left over to spend on depth so here we are.

It has as much to do with drafting as it does about the 4 forwards eating up the Cap.

Other than Knies has "kid" looked like they are contributors?

 

[Gary Nylund]

It has as much to do with drafting as it does about the 4 forwards eating up the Cap.

Other than Knies has "kid" looked like they are contributors?

Things might be better in that regard if we hadn't traded our 1st round picks for so many years because "we have a chance to win now ... when you have a chance you have to go for it ... we might not ever be in this good a position again ... what kind of a message does it send to the team if we don't go for it ... all the other teams trade futures when they have a chance blah blah blah blah".

 

[IronHookem]

Obviously my opinion but pretty much universally accepted but you would certainly be welcomed into the minority though.

You must suffer from a short memory, because I kept hearing people on these boards saying how Nylander had surpassed Marner over the course of last season, but I guess it was just a very loud minority?

Marner has been in my opinion been the better player these last couple of games, but to suggest that he has once again become universally accepted as the 2nd guy is just a ridiculous statement, and it makes it very hard to take anything you say seriously.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Willy and Mitch are close and have been for two seasons now. I'd probably give the overall in that time to Willy and yes, because playoffs, Mitch has 2 more RS points and 4 more PO points...but 3 less PO goals in that time.

Mitch has been better so far but it's not like Willy is yanking his dong; Mitch has been a 9.5/10 and Willy has been a 9. It's again close.

Who passes who is a question for the future and to be settled in the playoffs, because RS I think Mitch beats him out by 10-15 points and better defensive play, but Willy gets 10-15 more goals.

...

I think Willy does better in the playoffs not because he's more 'clutch' or anything, but because he's stronger, faster, shoots better and is more difficult to contain in a tight game.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The 5on5 hasn’t been great, but I think we need a bit of perspective.

Goals for - 39. This despite the injuries and the new system, and it's still good for 20th overall (likely even better by per game, as there are 17 teams who've played more games and only 6 with fewer).

Goals against - 29. Tied with the Wild for the fewest! Wild have played the same number but most teams have played more.

We're running 34.5% more goals for than against at 5on5. Compare that to under 21% over the last three years.

Scoring is certainly down , but I don't think the overall game is.