William Nylander

[IPS]

That isn't true dude, and it's funny because everyone was saying "nobody cares about their defence, they're paid to produce", now we can't even admit that. I'm out, enjoy the tire fire, it isn't reality.

Willy did produce, he was the team's leading scorer in the playoffs.

 

[DarkKnight]

Willy did produce, he was the team's leading scorer in the playoffs.

Thought you were criticizing defensive play of others? Now we're back here. Pointless

 

[IPS]

Thought you were criticizing defensive play of othees? Now we're back here. Pointless

"nobody cares about their defence, they're paid to produce",

Is your line i was referring to. And any idea of Matthews and Marner being "good defensively" late in the series is pure fairlytale. They were all putrid.

 

[SprDaVE]

 

[ZEBROA]

It will be one game and then he can go golfing with his family.

That said, as sweden is my team i hope he get a medal at least.

 

[ITM]

Sucked in the Florida series.


Willie was the passenger.

And when Willie wasn't he was arguably the reason they won their first two games to begin with and if memory serves why they were up 2-0 in Game 3.

At some point, we have to accept nuance and assign primary blame to primary parties (i.e. Matthews and Marner and maybe Woll).

Nylander disappeared for all intents and purposes the rest of the series.

But for Nylander's play in the first 3 games, we might have got swept. And if he's that fundamental a difference maker on a team in which several members here refer to him as a third wheel (when it's convenient) then I think the obsession with spotlighting our leading point-getter is proof positive of bias.

If Willie was "THE" passenger, then jettison Matthews as soon as is possible because neither our fanbase nor our club needs a Captain Gaslight as its leader to infect those who remain and repel those who might otherwise come.

 

[sunstersun]

And when Willie wasn't he was arguably the reason they won their first two games to begin with and if memory serves why they were up 2-0 in Game 3.

At some point, we have to accept nuance and assign primary blame to primary parties (i.e. Matthews and Marner and maybe Woll).

Nylander disappeared for all intents and purposes the rest of the series.

But for Nylander's play in the first 3 games, we might have got swept. And if he's that fundamental a difference maker on a team in which several members here refer to him as a third wheel (when it's convenient) then I think the obsession with spotlighting our leading point-getter is proof positive of bias.

If Willie was "THE" passenger, then jettison Matthews as soon as is possible because neither our fanbase nor our club needs a Captain Gaslight as its leader to infect those who remain and repel those who might otherwise come.

There's also a clear reason why Willy fell off. You can't give Willy 2nd line/3rd line resources and put him against the 1st line/1st D pair. If he had a good 2C and a good 2LW, he would be fine against that line. But we obviously have a 3C and 3LW for Willy coz we got a 35 million dollar 1st line who's taking secondary matchups lol.

Tavares was dying against Barkov and Berube did nothing to shift the lines.

 

[sunstersun]

We also get eliminated by Ottawa without Willy.

 

[hullsy47]

We also get eliminated by Ottawa without Willy.

He was one of the passengers mathews talked of
He should be gassed ,not playing in a second rate tournament

 

[JT AM da real deal]

There's also a clear reason why Willy fell off. You can't give Willy 2nd line/3rd line resources and put him against the 1st line/1st D pair. If he had a good 2C and a good 2LW, he would be fine against that line. But we obviously have a 3C and 3LW for Willy coz we got a 35 million dollar 1st line who's taking secondary matchups lol.

Tavares was dying against Barkov and Berube did nothing to shift the lines.

Most people who aren't at da games live just don't realize JT can't keep up playoff pace up and down da ice as a C .. but at least he gives it his all .. and again most people don't realize that both Matty and Mitch struggled to keep playoff pace when cats went all out in games 5 and 7 against 2nd and 3rd lines .. da real problem was we did not give Willy da speed of Domi and Knies to play with .. if we did then we may have had a chance .. we did not give Willy a chance .. Berube decided to go with Matty and Mitch

 

[sunstersun]

Most people who aren't at da games live just don't realize JT can't keep up playoff pace up and down da ice as a C .. but at least he gives it his all .. and again most people don't realize that both Matty and Mitch struggled to keep playoff pace when cats went all out in games 5 and 7 against 2nd and 3rd lines .. da real problem was we did not give Willy da speed of Domi and Knies to play with .. if we did then we may have had a chance .. we did not give Willy a chance .. Berube decided to go with Matty and Mitch

I wanted Domi as the 2C over Tavares for sure.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I wanted Domi as the 2C over Tavares for sure.

I actually don't think it would have flipped either game .. as I stated we needed 2 shutouts in a row in games 6 and 7 to beat da Cats .. and game 7 we didn't get MONEY tending .. Berube was lucky to get MONEY tending from Binner in game 7 .. but again no one remembers da details

 

[Tak7]

A little "InSiDuR" info - just saw Willy at Pearson Terminal 3, boarding British Airways flight 099 to London.

Guessing he's connecting via Heathrow onwards to Stokholm, to participate in the Worlds.

And now confirmed that he's playing at the Worlds

 

[pcruz]

In the Florida series
William 3 goals 3 assists
Mathews 1 goal 3 assists
Marner 1 goal 3 assists
JT 2 goals
None were great but saying William was the passenger isn’t accurate. 7 goals in 7 games would be great for 1 guy but all 4 totaled that.

As were Matthews, Marner and others. The core is supposed to drive the bus and none of them were capable in that type of game. Physically the core does not have the skillset and we’ve all known that for several years.

Not a Leafs fan but the offensive zone isn’t the Leafs problem - Nylander floats in the D-zone like a rookie and Marner won’t take a hit at either blue line to make a play.

Reilly is also so overrated, the guy sucks in every big game he’s ever playe. He has the heart just not the skill set for what the Leafs need, Nylander and Marner have the skill set just not the heart

And when Willie wasn't he was arguably the reason they won their first two games to begin with and if memory serves why they were up 2-0 in Game 3.

At some point, we have to accept nuance and assign primary blame to primary parties (i.e. Matthews and Marner and maybe Woll).

Nylander disappeared for all intents and purposes the rest of the series.

But for Nylander's play in the first 3 games, we might have got swept. And if he's that fundamental a difference maker on a team in which several members here refer to him as a third wheel (when it's convenient) then I think the obsession with spotlighting our leading point-getter is proof positive of bias.

If Willie was "THE" passenger, then jettison Matthews as soon as is possible because neither our fanbase nor our club needs a Captain Gaslight as its leader to infect those who remain and repel those who might otherwise come.

Let's break some of this information down a bit here:

On the surface, round 2 of the playoffs has Willy, Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Knies, Domi looking like this:

	G	A	Pts	EV Pts	Shots	Hits	Blocks	Hits Taken	Takeaways	Giveaways	PK ToI
Nylander	3	3	6	5	19	3	3	9	1	5	0:04
Marner	1	4	5	4	8	17	11	14	1	7	14:12
Matthews	1	3	4	4	26	19	6	8	6	8	10:56
Tavares	2	0	2	1	23	13	7	11	1	9	0:05
Knies	2	2	4	4	15	19	4	7	1	6	11:47
Domi	2	3	5	4	11	6	1	5	2	5	0:00

Under the surface, then things get a bit more interesting.


Individually:

	ToI	Shots	Expected Goals	Scoring Chances	High Danger	Rebounds Created	Offensive Zone Starts	Defensive Zone Starts	O. Zone Faceoffs	D. Zone Faceoffs
Nylander	132:26	19	1.82	17	8	0	32	8	58	30
Marner	154:34	8	0.6	6	1	2	42	39	67	69
Matthews	143:34	26	3.33	26	14	7	40	37	67	69
Tavares	134:19	23	2.76	28	14	8	27	11	50	37
Knies	137:16	15	3.65	21	15	2	34	23	54	44
Domi	87:37	11	1.21	14	4	2	14	10	22	24

As a line:

	Shots For	Shots Against	Goals For	Goals Against	Expected Goals For	Expected Goals Against	Scoring Chances For	High Danger	Scoring Chances Against	High Danger
Nylander	78	82	7	7	10	6.61	83	42	74	25
Marner	67	58	7	9	9.55	5.66	75	40	79	23
Matthews	67	54	7	7	9.9	5.59	77	42	74	20
Tavares	77	83	6	9	10.42	6.36	75	41	70	27
Knies	63	50	7	10	9.11	6.54	72	37	79	24
Domi	39	42	5	2	4.2	3.82	32	13	42	17

What do these numbers show?

Well, they clearly illustrate a set of players whose job was to do nothing but generate offense.
It shows a different set of players whose job was to create offense, but also to stymie the offensive line of the opposition, and to kill penalties.

What it also shows, clearly, is that the set of players whose entire job was to generate offense, barely, if at all, outperformed the other set of players in that 1 duty they had.

As it pertains specifically to Nylander, these numbers paint a picture of a player:
1. Entirely offensive usage
2. Generally stayed in the perimeter with lots of shots and 0 rebounds created
3. Did not engage in physical play


That's purely from stats. The eye test showed that Nylander was very much engaged offensively, always looking for quick breaks, and generated quite a few breakaway chances.
Hmm, that seems to reinforce the idea gained from the stats.


Lastly, how did these players get matched up in the series?

Florida currently has 2 Selke finalists on that top line of theirs - Sasha Barkov and Sam Reinhart.

Let's say that the Leafs' top line faced off against those 2 players for 78 minutes each, while the 2nd line faced off against them for just over 32 minutes.

Sam Reinhart scored 50 goals last year. Barkov is a 90+ point player. They were neutralized by Matthews, Marner and Knies. Sure, they neutralized the Leafs' top line as well, and thus the biggest weapons for each team were essentially taken off the board.

And yet, the 2nd line for the Leafs, while facing drastically lesser opposition, did not fare well.

 

[Menzinger]

He was one of the passengers mathews talked of
He should be gassed ,not playing in a second rate tournament

Which was still a bit of projection from Matthews who was a passenger for most games this playoffs

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

He was one of the passengers mathews talked of
He should be gassed ,not playing in a second rate tournament

I agree. This was his payback for Nylander yelling at him on the documentary last year.

 

[ITM]

Let's break some of this information down a bit here:

On the surface, round 2 of the playoffs has Willy, Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Knies, Domi looking like this:

	G	A	Pts	EV Pts	Shots	Hits	Blocks	Hits Taken	Takeaways	Giveaways	PK ToI
Nylander	3	3	6	5	19	3	3	9	1	5	0:04
Marner	1	4	5	4	8	17	11	14	1	7	14:12
Matthews	1	3	4	4	26	19	6	8	6	8	10:56
Tavares	2	0	2	1	23	13	7	11	1	9	0:05
Knies	2	2	4	4	15	19	4	7	1	6	11:47
Domi	2	3	5	4	11	6	1	5	2	5	0:00

Under the surface, then things get a bit more interesting.


Individually:

	ToI	Shots	Expected Goals	Scoring Chances	High Danger	Rebounds Created	Offensive Zone Starts	Defensive Zone Starts	O. Zone Faceoffs	D. Zone Faceoffs
Nylander	132:26	19	1.82	17	8	0	32	8	58	30
Marner	154:34	8	0.6	6	1	2	42	39	67	69
Matthews	143:34	26	3.33	26	14	7	40	37	67	69
Tavares	134:19	23	2.76	28	14	8	27	11	50	37
Knies	137:16	15	3.65	21	15	2	34	23	54	44
Domi	87:37	11	1.21	14	4	2	14	10	22	24

As a line:

	Shots For	Shots Against	Goals For	Goals Against	Expected Goals For	Expected Goals Against	Scoring Chances For	High Danger	Scoring Chances Against	High Danger
Nylander	78	82	7	7	10	6.61	83	42	74	25
Marner	67	58	7	9	9.55	5.66	75	40	79	23
Matthews	67	54	7	7	9.9	5.59	77	42	74	20
Tavares	77	83	6	9	10.42	6.36	75	41	70	27
Knies	63	50	7	10	9.11	6.54	72	37	79	24
Domi	39	42	5	2	4.2	3.82	32	13	42	17

What do these numbers show?

Well, they clearly illustrate a set of players whose job was to do nothing but generate offense.
It shows a different set of players whose job was to create offense, but also to stymie the offensive line of the opposition, and to kill penalties.

What it also shows, clearly, is that the set of players whose entire job was to generate offense, barely, if at all, outperformed the other set of players in that 1 duty they had.

As it pertains specifically to Nylander, these numbers paint a picture of a player:
1. Entirely offensive usage
2. Generally stayed in the perimeter with lots of shots and 0 rebounds created
3. Did not engage in physical play


That's purely from stats. The eye test showed that Nylander was very much engaged offensively, always looking for quick breaks, and generated quite a few breakaway chances.
Hmm, that seems to reinforce the idea gained from the stats.


Lastly, how did these players get matched up in the series?

Florida currently has 2 Selke finalists on that top line of theirs - Sasha Barkov and Sam Reinhart.

Let's say that the Leafs' top line faced off against those 2 players for 78 minutes each, while the 2nd line faced off against them for just over 32 minutes.

Sam Reinhart scored 50 goals last year. Barkov is a 90+ point player. They were neutralized by Matthews, Marner and Knies. Sure, they neutralized the Leafs' top line as well, and thus the biggest weapons for each team were essentially taken off the board.

And yet, the 2nd line for the Leafs, while facing drastically lesser opposition, did not fare well.

What game did Maurice adjust his lines to stop Nylander's momentum?

 

[PhantomLeaf]

It’s too bad that your captain and his little buddy are # 4-5 players then. Trade Nylander and you got yourself a bucket full with ”meh”

I think Marner and Matthews are both also number 3s. For Nylander it's the lack of other intangibles that holds him back, so when he hits an ice-cold stretch (last four games at Florida) he doesn't provide anything else but bad optics.

Marner is whiny and entitled and cannot handle pressure. The more pressure you apply to him the larger the mistakes he will make. He is also unable to create as much time and space in the playoffs (tighter checking and tighter defensive focus from opposing teams), so his offence disappears. Again, as a number 3 guy he'd probably be fantastic.

Matthews just doesn't have the competitive edge or burning passion that most number 1s or 2s have. He's got a good-fantastic defensive game (ebbs and flows) but his offence and goal scoring ability dry up completely in the playoffs. While other playoff performers turn it up and hit another gear, Matthews is unable to find that extra gear or two, and he ends up looking extra ordinary in the playoffs. The tighter checking, higher physically, semi-illegal harassment that happens on the ice in the playoffs robs him of his ability to generate consistent, game-breaking offence. Again, as a number 3 a lot of those issues will alleviate themselves and he'd be back to putting up numbers.

Neither of them are focal point games. They have to be tertiary options. With out comparing direct skillsets, think a Ryan Nugent-Hopkins or Hyman behind McDavid and Draistil as a perfect scenario for all three. You have a 1-2 punch who both produce and elevate their games in the playoffs, which allows the tertiary option(s) time and space to do their thing.

 

[ITM]

I agree. This was his payback for Nylander yelling at him on the documentary last year.

Are you referring to Nylander yelling at Matthews and Marner on the bench that's since gone viral?

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Are you referring to Nylander yelling at Matthews and Marner on the bench that's since gone viral?

He was yelling at Matthews, and yes.

 

[ITM]

He was yelling at Matthews, and yes.

I think Marner's reaction noted Nylander addressing him to a certainty and possibly both of them.

But importantly, he was right.

And I'd wager, the cheek that Marner showed in calling ANYONE a passenger was laughable to a player like Nylander, irrespective of his effort the second half of the series.

 

[KAWAIlllI]

I agree. This was his payback for Nylander yelling at him on the documentary last year.

Then he should try to outplay Nylander first, which he ofc didn’t

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Then he should try to outplay Nylander first, which he ofc didn’t

He doesn’t have to. Being pissy little babies that don't perform when it matters has gotten them all paid substantially more than their league comparables.

 

[KAWAIlllI]

He was one of the passengers mathews talked of
He should be gassed ,not playing in a second rate tournament

You’re just bringing it with bad take after bad take, huh …

 

[KAWAIlllI]

He doesn’t have to. Being pissy little babies that don't perform when it matters has gotten them all paid substantially more than their league comparables.

So how was this his payback? He deserved to get yelled at last year, and he did not perform well enough to scream at others this year. He’s a little kid, really.

There’s an obvious rift between Marner and Nylander (just like here lol), and Marner really doesn’t have the upper hand in that, he hasn’t for quite some time