Will Zetterberg Be A HHOF'er?

[filinski77]

Your contradicting yourself by changing the standard games played to 600, which obviously will hurt Zetterberg....so the context doesn’t make sense.

That’s a pretty inaccurate observation. The guy has a .89 PPG.....that’s really good. And like I stated, with 1000 games, he sits 4th in PPG. That’s not a product of playing so long, he was still very much productive for having played so many games. He’s also 8th in goals and 3rd in assists with at least 1000 games. Once again, showing production.

I'm just adding some other viewpoint other than raw points since he came into the league, which of course leaves out many other factors.

For example: points/gp from 2002/2003 (his first year) to 2013/2014 (last season he put up a point/gp, therefore giving him the advantage of shaving off his decline years), he is 15th in p/gp for players with over 400 games in that span. Looking at it this way takes his 18-32 year old potential prime age of health, and compares it with other players, who also may have had decline years in this time frame.

Or for ex/ Since his first year in the league up until 2013/2014 (again, his last year going p/gp), his 92 points season (his career high) is the 54th on a list of top point producing players. His second best (which was 85) falls to 92nd.

Or looking at his direct points/goal finishes, points = 6/8 and goals = 5th. Not many elite seasons from a points perspective.

To finish this up, I just want to clarify I'm not saying he wasn't an elite player or a great player, he was a stud 2 way centre who played very defensively responsible. But he was never an elite point producer over his career, regardless of "x points since x season"

 

[ClydeLee]

Yes, they are different.

The list was mostly comprised of media members while the HHOF has a committee made up mostly of former players.

The NHL values money and will ****e the game for a buck while the HHOF has interests in the roots of the sport and cataloging it where notable and or unique. This is why a list such as the top 100 players has a different aim than any list the HHOF would produce, the former shouldn't be taken seriously in other words.

The voting committee currently is made up of about 15 people (10 are former players). That list, the top 100, had over 200 voters, every ****ty beat guy on every team likely got a vote. And zero conversation was had about the voting, rendering it worth little more than a HF poll.

I was referring to Toews, who will probably get in, but that it's no slam dunk because the NHL made a list. Zetterberg should rightfully get in.

These seem real jaded and over glamorizing the hof. Like they're not focused about making money? That's what the industry of legacy rewarding does too.

I dont know where you got that info but I've only seen people list it as 60ish voters where I saw a lot of the same names as HOF voters like Pierre McGuire, scotty bowman, Burnside, Poile, emerik, etc. It seemed just the small few big national writers and a lot of current & former gm/coaches, or team historian type guys. Not like the annual awards having all beat guys vote.

Yeah the hall seems to balance with players, the gms, and the national media types. They're not different minded

 

[Cotton]

These seem real jaded and over glamorizing the hof. Like they're not focused about making money? That's what the industry of legacy rewarding does too.

I dont know where you got that info but I've only seen people list it as 60ish voters where I saw a lot of the same names as HOF voters like Pierre McGuire, scotty bowman, Burnside, Poile, emerik, etc. It seemed just the small few big national writers and a lot of current & former gm/coaches, or team historian type guys. Not like the annual awards having all beat guys vote.

Yeah the hall seems to balance with players, the gms, and the national media types. They're not different minded

Completely different minded.

 

[ClydeLee]

Completely different minded.

What? They all are big in talking up team accomplishment and judging more than stats or individual play.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I'm just adding some other viewpoint other than raw points since he came into the league, which of course leaves out many other factors.

For example: points/gp from 2002/2003 (his first year) to 2013/2014 (last season he put up a point/gp, therefore giving him the advantage of shaving off his decline years), he is 15th in p/gp for players with over 400 games in that span. Looking at it this way takes his 18-32 year old potential prime age of health, and compares it with other players, who also may have had decline years in this time frame.

Or for ex/ Since his first year in the league up until 2013/2014 (again, his last year going p/gp), his 92 points season (his career high) is the 54th on a list of top point producing players. His second best (which was 85) falls to 92nd.

Or looking at his direct points/goal finishes, points = 6/8 and goals = 5th. Not many elite seasons from a points perspective.

To finish this up, I just want to clarify I'm not saying he wasn't an elite player or a great player, he was a stud 2 way centre who played very defensively responsible. But he was never an elite point producer over his career, regardless of "x points since x season"

None of this means anything.....and I mean anything. Comparing stats from 10 years ago, changing the criteria for how many games should be hold to a standard towards PPG, and being fixated on timelines, legit means nothing.

I never said he had a slew of elite seasons, but he was still fairly consistent on both ends, all while maintaining a reasonably high level of play. At the end of the day, he doesn’t have the strongest case or resume for a HOF career. His 2006-08 seasons were Elite from a points perspective, messing with the time frame in happened and comparing it to now doesn’t take away that. I mean he finished 8th in points and 6th in goals in ‘08, while finishing 8th in points and 5th in assists in ‘11. Adjusted points have him 6th and 8th in points both years. I don’t know what your standard for “elite” is.

 

[KPower]

Peak was too short imo.

 

[Cotton]

What? They all are big in talking up team accomplishment and judging more than stats or individual play.

Trying to liken the HOF to the NHL is greasy, I mean if they are like minded then it legitimizes the NHL's list after all, right Blackhawks fan.

 

[Rebels57]

Hall of Very Good

 

[TheAngryHank]

Lock.

 

[ClydeLee]

Trying to liken the HOF to the NHL is greasy, I mean if they are like minded then it legitimizes the NHL's list after all, right Blackhawks fan.

Lol what? How does that legitimize the list? Its irrelevant but something that only lives on because people joke about it.

And again I was talking about the people. But nobody should treat a sports HOF like it's sanctimonious and superior in intention to the sports leagues it records history of.

 

[Syckle78]

Funny quote about the Selke. He finished 3rd & 4th in back to back seasons. Didn't come close to sniff the award in any other season. Just because someone's favorite hometown player is an above average player, his fans seem to think that he should go into the Hall Of Fame.

Above average? Lol nobody should take anything you say serious from that point on. And please don't speak about bias. From long time lurking the hoh section I am completely aware of your hate on for Detroit players. 97 was a long time ago let it go,big fella.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

He's a similar level of talent as Modano, who got in on his first year eligible, just with less love from the media and more injuries.

 

[TDotMassive]

I wouldn’t go that far. Williams, Richards, Niedermayer, Giguere all won the Smythe, but would have never won the Hart. The Smythe May look important because it’s the playoffs, but a good player can win it over the best in the league.

All in all, his Hart votes shouldn’t be used against him, and not because there are “worst off” players in the Hall right now, but because whatever he lacked in Hart voting, he made up everywhere else.

he doesn’t have the legacy or status that Toews has though. Zetterberg is clearly the superior player, but Toews has the intangibles that somehow mean just as much, if not more. It’s ridiculous, but it’s the way many think and hold standards.

Smythe > Hart because Playoffs/Winning the Cup > Regular Season Success... a Playoffs MVP is more important than a Regular Season MVP. If you win the Smythe, its usually because you were the driving force behind a cup win.

 

[Jtown]

1 top 10 hart finish and he finished 10th. Great player but not a high enough peak, and not a long enough career.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The HHOF is also a popularity contest, so I would be stunned if he doesn't get in eventually. Zetterberg is really popular with players, management and media guys.

Also his Triple Gold status is important here. Zetterberg has some credentials on his international resume as well. I know people gloss over that sometimes, but he was one of the best players in his generation. He is not a first ballot guy, but he will eventually get in.

 

[DitchMarner]

If Sundin is in...

If Sundin's in, Zetterberg is in yesterday.

You and others are saying there is ABSOLUTELY no way he belongs. That’s just objectively wrong.
Lots of people forgetting about him being a member of the Triple Gold club.
Do you think Sundin belongs? Andreychuk absolutely deserves it but Hank absolutely does not? Cmon

PPG finishes among players who played at least 40 games:

Sundin:

10, 12, 13, 13, 17, 17, 18, 20, 23, 23, 23, 28, 29, 39, 49, 52, 88, 105

Zetterberg:

5, 5, 10, 13, 19, 21, 22, 24, 25, 31, 31, 61, 105, 120, 140

Scoring race finishes:

Sundin:

4, 7, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 20, 23, 25, 27, 28, 31, 35, 38, 40, 71, 273

Zetterberg:

6, 9, 15, 20, 25, 25, 25, 29, 30, 53, 88, 96, 103, 121, 127

Hart voting finishes:

Sundin:

8, 12, 16, 18, 18

Zetterberg:

10, 16, 20, 22, 23

All-Star voting finishes:

Sundin:

AS-2, AS-2, AS-5, AS-6, AS-7, AS-7

Zetterberg:

AS-2, AS-3, AS-4, AS-5, AS-7, AS-7, AS-8, AS-9, AS-9, AS-10

Selke voting finishes:

Sundin:

32, 37

Zetterberg:

3, 4, 7, 9, 9, 12, 14, 18, 32, 43

Awards:

Sundin:

Messier Leadership Award

Zetterberg:

Conn Smythe
King Clancy

Playoffs:

Sundin:

38 goals, 44 assists, 82 points, +2 in 91 games

Zetterberg:

57 goals, 63 assists, 120 points, +41 in 137 games

Number of times leading a team in scoring:

Sundin:

13

Zetterberg:

5


The argument can be made that Zetterberg had the better NHL career of the two, but Sundin's International career is decidedly better than Z's.


Olympics:

Sundin:

16 GP, 11 G, 9 A, 20 P, +5

Zetterberg:

17 GP, 5 G, 4 A, 9 P, +7

W-Cup:

Sundin:

8 GP, 5 G, 8 A, 13 P, +1

Zetterberg:

4 GP, 1 G, 1 A, 2 P, -7

WC-A

Sundin:

35 GP, 18 G, 26 A, 44 P, +10

Zetterberg:

52 GP, 11 G, 33 A, 44 P, +17

 

[Paul4587]

Pretty borderline but at his best he was really good. Much better peak than a Sundin type player but not as much longevity.

 

[GreatGonzo]

Smythe > Hart because Playoffs/Winning the Cup > Regular Season Success... a Playoffs MVP is more important than a Regular Season MVP. If you win the Smythe, its usually because you were the driving force behind a cup win.

So Justin Williams>Ryan Getzlaf? You do realize how many Players who would never have won the Hart have won the Smythe, right? Especially compared to the number of Hart winners that have won the Smythe, proving that it doesn’t take a top player to win the Smythe, which a Hart implies that you are among the leagues best, its rare not to be.

Sure, but that doesn’t mean it’s equivalent to the most valuable player to a team during an 82 game season. I mean was Justin’s Williams Smythe win more impressive and valuable than Crosby’s Hart that year? Driving force is over exaggerating, your winning for being the post stand out played, but that doesn’t make you the best or better player overall, just the “better” for that cup run.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Zetterberg was hugely underrated...never forget 2008 finals and his penalty killing.....it was perfection.

 

[McVespa99]

Sundin is in. Toews will get in. Therefore Z will get in. They are all borderline or less but were well respected by "hockey people".

 

[dr robbie]

Zetterberg was hugely underrated...never forget 2008 finals and his penalty killing.....it was perfection.

Yeah, and he got the Smythe for it. That's kind of why we're having the discussion. Without it, he would have nothing as far as trophies/awards. One playoffs, or one series, or one shift doesn't make a HOF career.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Everyone's out of their mind if they think Zetterberg and Toews don't get into the Hall of Fame. They're both locks.

 

[Torspo21]

Zetterberg was drafted at round 7, with the 210th pick overall. Lets assume he will be elected to the HHOF, would that 210 be a record, or is there any players in the HHOF who have been picked later in the draft?

 

[GreatGonzo]

Sundin is in. Toews will get in. Therefore Z will get in. They are all borderline or less but were well respected by "hockey people".

Sundin was never borderline, he was going to be a HOFer.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Great player but he's not quite there. Had he breached 1,000 points and at LEAST 400 goals, that's when I'd start considering him.