Will there ever be another Walter Gretzky in sports?

[Big Phil]

So someone brought up a good point above. Panther I believe. But it might be true that the world may never again allow someone like Walter Gretzky to exist in the way he did, simply because we are too cynical, judgmental and skeptical about truly blue collar types now. Or better yet, the Ward Cleaver types are not looked at in the same light as they used to be. They should be, but they aren't. People like drama, they crave drama, I think society just wants to tear down a feel good story of Walter/Wayne Gretzky in a way that perhaps we didn't used to. It is probably the same reason why we may never have a Mr. Rogers in the world again. I mean THE "Mr. Rogers" of course.

My guess is that someone like Walter would have so many "cancel culture" attempts to cancel him these days that perhaps people couldn't just let a nice story like that be anymore.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

So someone brought up a good point above. Panther I believe. But it might be true that the world may never again allow someone like Walter Gretzky to exist in the way he did, simply because we are too cynical, judgmental and skeptical about truly blue collar types now. Or better yet, the Ward Cleaver types are not looked at in the same light as they used to be. They should be, but they aren't. People like drama, they crave drama, I think society just wants to tear down a feel good story of Walter/Wayne Gretzky in a way that perhaps we didn't used to. It is probably the same reason why we may never have a Mr. Rogers in the world again. I mean THE "Mr. Rogers" of course.

My guess is that someone like Walter would have so many "cancel culture" attempts to cancel him these days that perhaps people couldn't just let a nice story like that be anymore.

Phil,I respect your hockey opinion but equating neo-liberals to not liking Walter is pure poppycock. Good people, like Walter, come from all economic backgrounds. They are not liberal, conservative or any one of anything. We may never see someone like Walter again mainly because hockey has out-priced the average Canadian family. I just don't see anything that Walter did as something to be punishable now. He cared, was very diplomatic and embraced the success he got probably better than most people could. He was the salt of the earth. Let's leave it like that and the politics out.

 

[MadLuke]

We may never see someone like Walter again mainly because hockey has out-priced the average Canadian family

Wonder if it would not still be true on a cheaper-attach to public school hockey system, with media fragmentation and other change, for example the mother of Celine Dion (Maman Dion) became a big star, not sure if we will ever see that again as well.

Was the parent of the biggest name becoming well known a thing in general at some point and less a reality now ?

Has for hockey being priced out, when you are Gretzky level good young I guess that make it different (you get a lot of help in form of the team that want that kid to play for them and private school, etc...I think some junior teams paid McDavid parents at some point and when the kids is certain to make it to the big league if he want and barring injury going into debt to make it happen would make sense)

For example Crosby parents:
Troy moved on and got involved in a Halifax law firm, where he started working as a facilities manager. Tina worked at a grocery store in Cole Harbour.

That is Crosby house growing up:

Not sure that dissimilar to being a union Bell employee at all.

 

[Mr. Fancy Pants]

The interesting thing about Walter Gretzky is that he became semi-famous in Canada without ever seeming to seek fame. Nowadays, there's such a different media environment. Can you imagine what it would be like if some 9 year old today is scoring nearly 400 goals in a season? The media attention would be relentless. Not to mention possibly having things like sponsorships thrown their way. That's something the Gretzky's never had to really worry about while Wayne was growing up. Hockey players didn't start making really big money until the 90s. All that would change if the same thing were to happen today. It seems that it would be easier for parents to go one of 2 ways - total media isolation (I mean, I have no idea who Crosby's or McDavid's or Lemieux's parents are) or embrace it and go overboard and make it part of their "brand".

I'm sure there's probably lots of hockey / sports parents similar to Walter. The difference is that he's the father of Wayne who was already getting media attention as a boy in a totally different media environment.

 

[gotyournose]

So someone brought up a good point above. Panther I believe. But it might be true that the world may never again allow someone like Walter Gretzky to exist in the way he did, simply because we are too cynical, judgmental and skeptical about truly blue collar types now. Or better yet, the Ward Cleaver types are not looked at in the same light as they used to be. They should be, but they aren't. People like drama, they crave drama, I think society just wants to tear down a feel good story of Walter/Wayne Gretzky in a way that perhaps we didn't used to. It is probably the same reason why we may never have a Mr. Rogers in the world again. I mean THE "Mr. Rogers" of course.

My guess is that someone like Walter would have so many "cancel culture" attempts to cancel him these days that perhaps people couldn't just let a nice story like that be anymore.

Society has changed so much Big Phil for another Walter Gretzky to happen. Honest to god, knowing today’s world I don’t really want to see how a Walter Gretzky would be treated, thought of, talked about or perceived. Never another like Wally, he was truly one of a kind.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Dave Hooch.

Marla Hooch's dad.

 

[frisco]

I doubt if 2% of American sports fans could tell you the name of Wayne Gretzky's father. Maybe with the news of his passing but it is a Canadian story.

My Best-Carey

 

[scott clam]

Brett Hull's dad was quite well-known, I recall
Ovechkin's mom is a two-time Olympic gold medalist and I believe she ran Dynamo's women basketball team for a while, so I bet people in Russia know her
Ovechkin's dad "uncle Misha" is well-known in DC, and once said in jest he is the third most popular person in town ("The most popular one is Sasha, then Obama, then me")

In the words of Brett Hull, the only contribution his father made to his development as a pro athlete was genetics.

 

[Zuluss]

In the words of Brett Hull, the only contribution his father made to his development as a pro athlete was genetics.

The OP question was: "my question is, will we ever see an athlete whose father is as well known in circles as Walter?" Bobby Hull fits the bill, a well-known father of a well-known athlete.
If the question was, "will we ever see a father of an athlete who wins people over by being humble, not having a mean bone in his body, etc.?", Bobby Hull would not be such a good answer.

 

[MadLuke]

I think the spirit of the question is clearly enough a father well known for being the father-father figure of an athlete, not if Lebron James kids make it to the nba one day, because obviously many pro athlete have famous pro athlete parents and it will become maybe even more common.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

pavel bure's dad was a famous dad

in vancouver, we used to call him vlad the dad

famously open handed pavel for being a prima donna during an upper deck photo shoot when they were in LA waiting for the canucks to come to an agreement with the soviet hockey federation, leading to this famous photo

people credit pavel with getting gino odjick those 16 goals that one year. but vlad, who later won two stanley cups as a strength and conditioning coach with the devils, had a lot to do with it too.

 

[Big Phil]

Phil,I respect your hockey opinion but equating neo-liberals to not liking Walter is pure poppycock. Good people, like Walter, come from all economic backgrounds. They are not liberal, conservative or any one of anything. We may never see someone like Walter again mainly because hockey has out-priced the average Canadian family. I just don't see anything that Walter did as something to be punishable now. He cared, was very diplomatic and embraced the success he got probably better than most people could. He was the salt of the earth. Let's leave it like that and the politics out.

That's just my take on it. Take Crosby for instance. There is very little that this guy should be hated for. He isn't brash, he never talks out of turn, he is quiet in a Joe Sakic-esque type of way, he stays out of politics and if anything he is a throwback to the old days of just having a love of the game. Yet he's gotten more hate than he's ever deserved. You could probably say that about Tom Brady in many ways too. People are just more cynical and want to create more drama than ever before. That's why it is a good chance a guy like Walter isn't thought of with the same innocence as we've gotten used to.

In the words of Brett Hull, the only contribution his father made to his development as a pro athlete was genetics.

I know Bobby in an interview has said before that he gave Brett a swift kick in the butt when he was a kid to work at hockey. I am pretty sure Bobby had a lot to do with Brett making the NHL even if Bobby may not have been the Andy Griffith-style father.

Wonder if it would not still be true on a cheaper-attach to public school hockey system, with media fragmentation and other change, for example the mother of Celine Dion (Maman Dion) became a big star, not sure if we will ever see that again as well.

Was the parent of the biggest name becoming well known a thing in general at some point and less a reality now ?

Has for hockey being priced out, when you are Gretzky level good young I guess that make it different (you get a lot of help in form of the team that want that kid to play for them and private school, etc...I think some junior teams paid McDavid parents at some point and when the kids is certain to make it to the big league if he want and barring injury going into debt to make it happen would make sense)

For example Crosby parents:
Troy moved on and got involved in a Halifax law firm, where he started working as a facilities manager. Tina worked at a grocery store in Cole Harbour.

That is Crosby house growing up:

Not sure that dissimilar to being a union Bell employee at all.

Never saw his house growing up. Nice. I know one thing that Wayne has said before and that was that Walter would have to borrow money from his mother (Wayne's grandma) to pay for his skates growing up. I know when I hear a story like that it makes me feel better for not being anything more than middle class raising my family either. I honestly think the reason he became the greatest player of all-time had nothing to do with what class his family was in but had mostly everything to do with his dedication and practice and just love of the game. He never felt he was practicing. Not to mention backyard rinks. That will do it.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Yep. First guy that came to mind

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

That's just my take on it. Take Crosby for instance. There is very little that this guy should be hated for. He isn't brash, he never talks out of turn, he is quiet in a Joe Sakic-esque type of way, he stays out of politics and if anything he is a throwback to the old days of just having a love of the game. Yet he's gotten more hate than he's ever deserved.

i think a lot of people were initially turned off crosby because he was always whining to the refs early on. sakic isn't who i'd compare him to in temperament, yzerman is.

I know Bobby in an interview has said before that he gave Brett a swift kick in the butt when he was a kid to work at hockey. I am pretty sure Bobby had a lot to do with Brett making the NHL even if Bobby may not have been the Andy Griffith-style father.

well bobby cut the child support cheques so there's that. and i'm sure learning to skate on an NHL rink and shooting pucks at tony esposito as a kid didn't hurt.

but i'm pretty sure after the divorce brett and the other hull kids were estranged from their father, and rightfully so. i remember reading that brett literally didn't see his dad for a stretch of multiple years as a teenager.

in his autobiography, brett credits his stepdad for many things, though i think his hockey ability wasn't one of them.

my understanding is brett would see his dad once or twice a year until he became a star, when they reconciled to mutually cash in on the father-son endorsement money.

 

[gotyournose]

i think a lot of people were initially turned off crosby because he was always whining to the refs early on. sakic isn't who i'd compare him to in temperament, yzerman is.




well bobby cut the child support cheques so there's that. and i'm sure learning to skate on an NHL rink and shooting pucks at tony esposito as a kid didn't hurt.

but i'm pretty sure after the divorce brett and the other hull kids were estranged from their father, and rightfully so. i remember reading that brett literally didn't see his dad for a stretch of multiple years as a teenager.

in his autobiography, brett credits his stepdad for many things, though i think his hockey ability wasn't one of them.

my understanding is brett would see his dad once or twice a year until he became a star, when they reconciled to mutually cash in on the father-son endorsement money.

If it took father-son endorsement money to get them to reconcile, like father like son and I don’t mean that in a good way. Brett always had this smug slimy arrogant way about him, I’d love to see how he really is on a day to day basis. He’s lucky he’s not playing hockey in today’s world, his loudmouth in your face ways won’t get him far

 

[Butch 19]

It feels more like an Canada thing (or even possibly an Ontario thing) than a hockey thing.

LOL

Where does your Canadian hockey parental life experience place Mrs and Mr Lindros?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

James Jordan

 

[MadLuke]

Jordan is almost at the same time has Gretzky.

Mannings family could have maybe ?

 

[JackSlater]

I really doubt it. Walter Gretzky was a genuine celebrity in Canada, to the point that his funeral received national coverage. His funeral was interesting as well, in that (to me anyway) it seemed to pull back the curtain a bit in terms of the lengths he went to with Wayne's career.

but speaking of heartwarming hockey dad stories, did anyone catch in either the dying seconds or postgame celebration of the stanley cup finals ron maclean's anecdote about subban and stamkos' dads?

the fine details might be off but the way i remember it, he referred to a passage in karl subban's book about an incident when pk was a kid and one of the parents on the other team was taunting him. and karl, who knows that this is how it's going to go for his boys if they're going to continue in hockey and has taught them (and himself) how to control their tempers and not let it cause a big thing every time, emotionally compartmentalize it, talk it out after the game on the drive home, is fuming but not reacting publicly.

so one of the dads on his team gets up, goes over to where the other team's parents are sitting, says something to that dad that karl can't hear and that was the end of it. and it meant the world to him that this guy had his and pk's back.

so as the seconds are counting down (i think... might have been in the postgame celebration tbh), ron maclean tells this anecdote and then goes full garrison keiller. "and karl never said who it was because the other dad never wanted to deflect attention away, but i asked karl yesterday and he said that in this moment positive examples of allyship are important so he gave me permission. and that man was.... steven stamkos' dad."

and the broadcast cuts to stamkos' dad watching his kid win the stanley cup. what a moment.


and back on topic, karl subban is probably the walter gretzkiest hockey dad of this generation. when i was a kid in the '80s/90s we'd hear about walter gretzky making his backyard rink and drilling wayne to see every angle, "where the puck is going not where it's been," and all that. when my son was three, one of the first hockey books he got had all the same stories i heard/read as a kid: jacques plante taking that bathgate shot to the face and putting on a mask, abby hoffman pretending to be a boy so she could play minor hockey, mud bruneteau ending the longest game ever, frank zamboni inventing the zamboni—plus a chapter on karl subban taking little pk to the public rink after hours.

Largely unrelated but to tie in Karl Subban, I was watching the new Summit Series documentary series last night and was surprised that one of the people they interviewed to give the Canadian fan perspective was Karl Subban. If PK makes it big in the media I could see Karl getting more prominent.

I was also very surprised to see Alan Eagleson interviewed, but that's probably for another thread.

 

[alko]

 

[Voight]

Jordan is almost at the same time has Gretzky.

Mannings family could have maybe ?

Archie Manning was one of the best college QBs ever, but he would be irrelevant in the current day if it wasn't for his two NFL sons. He's comparable in the sense he trained his kids from the early days but I don't think gets as much respect as Walter when it comes to that stuff given he had a "leg up" by being a pro player himself.

 

[JackSlater]

Archie Manning was one of the best college QBs ever, but he would be irrelevant in the current day if it wasn't for his two NFL sons. He's comparable in the sense he trained his kids from the early days but I don't think gets as much respect as Walter when it comes to that stuff given he had a "leg up" by being a pro player himself.

It really wouldn't make sense to compare a father who was an athlete and famous in his own right to Walter Gretzky, whose fame entirely derived from being the archetype hockey father. For what it's worth, Archie Manning was an NFL quarterback for over a decade and an all star. He's pretty much Eli if Eli had played on terrible teams for his whole career.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

If it took father-son endorsement money to get them to reconcile, like father like son and I don’t mean that in a good way. Brett always had this smug slimy arrogant way about him, I’d love to see how he really is on a day to day basis. He’s lucky he’s not playing hockey in today’s world, his loudmouth in your face ways won’t get him far

i think i made a post about this in another thread semi-recently but i can't find it now

but thinking again on brett and bobby reconciling to cash in on the father-son endorsement money, i can't judge brett here.

it's hard for me to imagine how complicated his feelings about his dad were. i mean, obviously to see what he and his siblings did is a horrific thing as a child. but on the other hand, insofar as most boys grow up idolizing their dads, his dad was rich, famous, handsome, rugged, and universally celebrated. even in his mid-20s, there must have been a lot of little boy in him that was still traumatized not only by the violence but also by the divorce and family separation, and just wanted his dad's approval and for him to be back in his life.

garbage human move by bobby to take advantage of that, of course. but not knowing the nature of their relationship since, there's a part of me that also wants to see an older, maybe wiser guy who did awful, irreversable things that he regrets deeply but still wants to fix what he can and have some kind of relationship to his kids.

 

[Stephen]

walter gretzky is a stroke of genius branding. not to say he wasn't a saint like canada thinks he is, because he probably was, but the whole canadian tire/tim horton's thing, it brings a tear to my eye in some deeply emotionally manipulative ways. and i am not a canadiana guy, not even a little bit.

i do wonder if, generationally, the world has moved on from a story like walter gretzky. like, i don't know that we can tell that story anymore. people are too cynical, mass media is too negative, and maybe just maybe the money is too big. when we hear about dads, they are bad dads. michael jackson's dad, the beach boys' dad, britney spears' parents, or as per this thread lavar ball.

and then a cynical part of me wonders about walter too. i have seen my share of hockey dads and you can't obsessively drill your kid the way he drilled gretzky without maybe at least being on a spectrum that includes lindros' dad... and maybe even bobby ryan's and patrick o'sullivan's dad right? idk, i'm not saying he was a psychopath like those last two or anything, just that that's not normal dad behaviour. i also wonder about carl lindros, and whether maybe they aren't so dissimilar but walter just had better pr than carl lindros, and maybe doug messier just was smart enough to not be a total jackass in public and carl wasn't.

as for other dads, richard williams has consistently been in the public eye for two decades and has a disney biopic coming out this year where will smith plays him.

There's certainly a lost Wonder Years quality to the Walter-Wayne come up story. Like you say, I don't think it translates in our time because we've lost a lot of that innocence from that era, and even the nostalgic picture of that blue collar little guy has taken on a certain charge. Not to say there wasn't a lot of ambition or politics, hard parenting and whatever behind that Norman Rockwell veneer, but I don't think anyone was racing towards a multimillion dollar, corporatized, media driven future.

 

[MadLuke]

Outside culture and media one big difference is the parents of a popular sports phenom has a potential 100 millions child future earning in front of them.

Guy Lafleur $100k for his first 2 years was giant money, but that $370k a year adjusted for inflation is less than league minimum now.