Will the Buffalo Sabres ever fix what's broken?

[Lt Dan]

I feel bad for Sabres fans. They are a great fanbase with awful awful ownership. These sports teams owners are successful at other areas of business and life and often refuse to see what the rest of us. They they suck at running sports teams.

Please hang in there Sabres fans. One day you will win that cup and it'll be WAY better when it does happen.
For reference, I am Kings fan. I went through some dark years, but 2012 made it all worth it. I'll be rooting for you guys every year and for your Bills.

and since I think humor makes everything better




Hang in there guys, it'll get better

 

[57special]

What's the one constant over time with that club? Perhaps that is the place to start.

 

[boltsfan86]

Because there's no point in them trading their few decent veterans for more magic beans. What they need to do is trade their youth for veterans, even if some of those veterans are downgrades on paper. The team is way too young and inexperienced and thats why they are so wildly inconsistent game-to-game.

If I was the Buffalo GM, I'd try to do something like the follows, based on who's been rumored to be available:

Boeser for Cozens + Kulich + 3rd
Brock Nelson for Ostlund + Kleber + 3rd
Helenius or Wahlberg for a 25-27yr old gritty forward like Rasmussen or someone similar. I'm just using him as an example because I'm familiar with him, but anyone of his ilk will do. A Blake Coleman lite. I wouldn't even want to give Ras up for a prospect but just spitballing here for academic purposes.

Rasmus Andersson for Byram + Strbak + 2nd

Go into next year with:

Boeser-Thompson-Tuch
Zucker-Nelson-Benson
Rosen-McLeod-Rasmussen
Malenstyn-Krebs-UFA signing
UFA depth

Dahlin-Andersson
Power-Jokijarhu
Samuelsson-Clifton
Bryson

They need to essentially replace 3-4 of their young players with a similar, maybe slightly worse player, that's like 5 years older. I am convinced this is the issue with the team.
Compare them to Detroit. Based purely on talent and ability, a core of Raymond/Larkin/DeBrincat/Kasper/Kane + Seider/Ed should not be THAT much better than Peterka/Thompson/Tuch/Cozens/Benson/Zucker + Power/Dahlin, but it is. It's because the Buffalo guys are all super young other than Zucker and Tuch.

I don't think Buffalo would give that much up for Boeser who is a true rental and very well might not want to play there beyond this year. Even if they got these guys who are older, I don't think that dramatically improves their trajectory in the near future and definitely not in the long run. Also Flames don't seem to have interest in moving Andersson. But I get what you're saying. I just think if you're Buffalo you absolutely cash in on a 28 year old like Tuch who might not stay. I think their target would be young guys that they can control or just keep picking as high as you can until something sticks. This current group is not it.

 

[boltsfan86]

Tuch is from the area and a Sabres/Bills fan and claims to want to be there and help them turn the corner, and is the only quality veteran they have, so until he says he isn’t signing, he will be untouchable in Buffalo.

At the end of the day, I just don't see how you can make Cozens available but not Tuch. One is a young budding star player with longterm control at a very reasonable cost with the cap continuing to rise. At the end of the day Tuch only has a 5 team no trade list and most of the teams that will want him probably won't be on there. So even if he wants to stay, it's probably in both parties' best interests to move him while you can right?

 

[NikF]

I think they're in a better spot than the majority of rebuilding teams (if not all of them) and a number of teams that aren't even rebuilding. Their asset list is incredible. Their main issue is they don't seem to understand how to translate the asset list into the on-ice product. That requires key culture veterans that can supplement the young players they identify as core.

They need two things, neither of which is particularly hard:
1. Supplement key young assets with culture players
2. Since the NHL suffers from cronyism to a significant extent, they need a temporary charismatic old-boys network front office voice that would add to their credibility. Think Brian Burke, Don Wadell, Brendan Shanahan etc. type. Such a person should have no actual executive power except to provide an official voice for the organization

 

[benfranklin]

I feel bad for Sabres fans.

I dont. Ive spent a decade telling them what therye organization is doing wrong only to be met with aholes left and right. Ive been right about nearly everything and loved every minute of it. Its a team im actively rooting for to lose now, even though my heart wants them to do well because its my hometown.

I hope they either pay the f out of Byram or he asks out.

 

[Voight]

Why in the world would you laugh at Sabres fans for being stuck in this situation?

I guess we can't all live cushy pampered bandwagon lives.

 

[Rubi]

If only the NHL Board of Governors could restrict an owner's involvement with their team due to ownerships continual incompetence?
I know Leafs fans would have loved this in the Harold Ballard days.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

If only the NHL Board of Governors could restrict an owner's involvement with their team due to ownerships continual incompetence?
I know Leafs fans would have loved this in the Harold Ballard days.

Certainly the Sabres are a prime example but how many teams around the league would you estimate are actually well run? Maybe 6?

 

[Rebels57]

Probably before the Flyers will.

 

[biturbo19]

At some point, you have to figure they'll get "lucky" on a couple things and finally turn it around. But they're certainly a prime example of how these "scorched earth" tank it out rebuilds and just "collecting talent" doesn't automatically work, when you start to end up with a deeply entrenched losing culture and some repeated systemic problems in the team building process.

They've often "won the draft" and are regularly viewed as having one of the better prospect pools in the league...yet if you don't have a coherent overall vision for the roster, good veteran mentors and coaching, it's not ever going to work. Whether some of that starts at the very top...it's easy to blame that and it certainly plays a role, but there's plenty of blame a rung or two down.

 

[Chainshot]

Pegs has spent money lavishly early on and been embarrassed by the results, taken league advice and been embarrassed by the results, taken GMs advice and been embarrassed by the results. He's had multiple players his GM's have sold him on being "the guy" sign big deals and almost immediately jump ship in both O'Reilly and Eichel. He's had multiple fan-boy hires in the front office and behind the bench where Pegula was the patsy to a bill of goods in the same way he was bamboozled by Rex Ryan in his NFL interview for the Bills.

And through this all, he has never once had an experienced POHO or a regular senior advisor with a winning hockey background. He's done spending money - he's had two GMs who talked him into bigger scouting and training staffs only to have those staff hirings fail at their positions, be it the lack of draft pick development outside of lottery picks or the bungling of their training staff leading to near league-high man-games lost to injury for multiple seasons and the public airing of health care issues with both Lehner and Eichel.

When he spends money, the team has been bad. When he doesn't spend money, the team has been bad. The one constant is him and his lack of experienced people in the front office.

The problem is him.

 

[Chainshot]

He didn't ask to be traded, he asked the GM the direction the team was going and if it was another rebuild then he suggested it was time for a change on both ends. GM said no and went out and signed hall, stall and others trying to push for the playoffs.

And then the neck injury is where the actual trade request came in, because buffalo didn't want there injured player to get fully healed, only wanted a quick fix that has proven to not last for professional athletes.

Jack asked to be traded. He then had to the audacity to come to camp hurt with what was reported to be a rib injury.

As for Buffalo's take on his medical treatment, their doctors advised the standard process of fusion that other players have gotten with varying results. No one in the NHL had gotten it previously and Eichel pushed for the surgery he wanted and got with the X block. The relationship was already broken before then.

 

[Chainshot]

At some point, you have to figure they'll get "lucky" on a couple things and finally turn it around. But they're certainly a prime example of how these "scorched earth" tank it out rebuilds and just "collecting talent" doesn't automatically work, when you start to end up with a deeply entrenched losing culture and some repeated systemic problems in the team building process.

They've often "won the draft" and are regularly viewed as having one of the better prospect pools in the league...yet if you don't have a coherent overall vision for the roster, good veteran mentors and coaching, it's not ever going to work. Whether some of that starts at the very top...it's easy to blame that and it certainly plays a role, but there's plenty of blame a rung or two down.

Who hires the rung down? We've seen the same thing over and over again with rookie GM's and very few quality voices in the front office to set the vision of what they want in a player and direction on how to get there. Pegula is the guy making those hires and putting his nose into the team's business. And that likely doesn't go away until he parts from his majority ownership and another voice comes in to set things to rights.

 

[PAZ]

Jack has also confirmed that he asked to be traded before he showed up already injured to the COVID shortened season. The treatment thing was a convenient way for everyone to move on - Pegula gets to get the cheaper option of not paying Eichel, Eichel gets to go to a team where he doesn't have to be the guy carrying all the expectation, Jack gets the surgery he wanted, Pegula isn't on the hook if it goes poorly.

But Jack had already asked out a year after demanding the C in his contract extension. As was said, the guy was not built for tough times and took advantage of the situation to get the C, the contract, the surgery and the trade. More power to him as a person for all that individual winning, but he's not some victim here.

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabr...cle_6514d74a-3da7-11ec-9402-e3c2b79e9530.html

Ya I recall before all that happened there were jokes about Eichel being the GM of Buffalo. Guess his agent did a good job of making Eichel to look like the victim to the public.

I get both sides, because Buffalo did kind of bend over backwards for Eichel until they didn't. On the other hand, Eichel wasn't wrong about leaving since he ended up winning a cup in Vegas. But i'm sure this has all been discussed on your guys forum ad nauseum, just interesting to think of as a neutral fan.

 

[My3Sons]

Honestly. None of our coaches taught our guys how to properly clutch, grab and interfere.

there is some truth in that. Veterans know how to cheat to get away with it. If you don't clutch and grab and interfere you are not defending to the best of your ability. Sadly that's the reality of the league right now and if the shot totals are to be believed it's only getting worse. Young skilled lineups want to skate and trade chances which is not a recipe for success right now.

 

[Fatass]

Imo the Sabres need a change at the top of their leadership group. They’ve tried several changes and none worked. Is they have Power and Byram to anchor their top two pairs and run their pp.
Imo they need to trade Dahlin. The return would be a lot too. All clubs except maybe (Van and Colorado?) would be bidding.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Of course, the question should be- will it be in our lifetimes?

 

[Lt Dan]

I dont. Ive spent a decade telling them what therye organization is doing wrong only to be met with aholes left and right. Ive been right about nearly everything and loved every minute of it. Its a team im actively rooting for to lose now, even though my heart wants them to do well because its my hometown.

Preface: I am a Kings fan, but put your themselves in your shoes
1- they know that their team isn't winning and has the playoff drought.
2-They all know their team is not run optimally , but they are powerless to stop it
2-fan is short for fanatic. Every fanbase is guilty of myopia, optimism and not wanting to hear criticism.
3- when your team inevitably goes through it's down cycle, how open would you and the other members of your fanbase be to criticism from fans of other teams? and you know what your fans are going to be aholes to those fans of other teams
4- Thomas Jefferson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ben Franklin


Maybe it's time to start a more productive crusade, Like a garden or collecting medieval armor?

 

[Chainshot]

Ya I recall before all that happened there were jokes about Eichel being the GM of Buffalo. Guess his agent did a good job of making Eichel to look like the victim to the public.

I get both sides, because Buffalo did kind of bend over backwards for Eichel until they didn't. On the other hand, Eichel wasn't wrong about leaving since he ended up winning a cup in Vegas. But i'm sure this has all been discussed on your guys forum ad nauseum, just interesting to think of as a neutral fan.

Jack went to Pegula in 2016 and told him he and others wouldn't play for Bylsma. Murray, when told by Pegula to sack Bylsma, said no and so he and Dan were both fired. Then Pegs stuck his nose in and made sure they hired a coach who he was a fanboy of as a player who had no HC experience in Phil Housley. Phil was so very overmatched as a HC at the time.

Then there is all of the off-ice stuff with Eichel - not listening to and actively mocking vets who tried to help guide him as a young player, how he treated people around the team off the ice, his antics around town - that didn't sit well when he demanded the C in his contract extension and then turned around and said he wasn't happy. He'd acted like a brat and he got away with it, even got the Cup win. I'm sure he's matured a lot, especially with better guidance from those around him out in Vegas.

Pegs is a child in his own right in how he reacts to things going badly and his lack of understanding that his deficiencies have unraveled the team during his tenure. There is no nuance there. Luckily for him, he was able to stumble into a good coach who then brought along a good GM on the football side of things. But looking at his hires outside of those two, it's a regular parade of disappointment with an underlying touch of snake oil salesmen taking him to the cleaner (Krueger, Rex Ryan). Pegula has been a rube regularly - bad UFA contracts, bad GM hires, bad coaching hires, voluminous scouting department hires that bore no fruit, renovations to team training and support facilities that bore no fruit. I get why he's parsimonious now. I would be too if almost every time I hired someone it blew up in my face.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

It's tough to build a competitive team. You really need that franchise 1C. They got it and it was Eichel and thought it was better to jack him around and then trade him. Dahlin and Power are great but 1C is still a need.

It will tough to get one with where they are at unfortunately. Can't rebuild but can't get the high draft pick.

Eichel has requested his trade over a year prior to the injury kerfuffle. The failure with Eichel was to surround him with horrible coaching and substance abusing, immature fools as his veteran influences. eg Evander Kane (stacks of cash era), Robin Lehner (weird snake farm, drinking guy), and Ryan O'Reilly (drunk in a Tim Horton's drivethru). Eichel was never going to be a leader, but he was the appointed savior by virtue of the tank and complete eradication of all structure in the franchise. Don't put immature, entitled brats in a near impossible role and surround them with morons.

So the injury stuff was more about contract risk and depreciating value of an asset that needed to be traded. It correlates with Pegula's move to trim everything to the bone.

 

[Chainshot]

Imo the Sabres need a change at the top of their leadership group. They’ve tried several changes and none worked. Is they have Power and Byram to anchor their top two pairs and run their pp.
Imo they need to trade Dahlin. The return would be a lot too. All clubs except maybe (Van and Colorado?) would be bidding.

Statistically, Dahlin is the engine who drives everything else. If they decide to lean on Power and Byram as the answers, it will not get better.

As for return, they already have too many pieces trying to break through or break into the league. What is more of that going to do when they aren't able or willing to fill in with the needed support? Dahlin's actually finally at an age when he's at prime years. Cutting him out to again go young is backwards to what they should be doing at a roster level.

Now if you mean at the top being the owner and therefore the GM? Hell yes. I don't think they will go anywhere ever with Pegula as the owner.

 

[Fatass]

Statistically, Dahlin is the engine who drives everything else. If they decide to lean on Power and Byram as the answers, it will not get better.

As for return, they already have too many pieces trying to break through or break into the league. What is more of that going to do when they aren't able or willing to fill in with the needed support? Dahlin's actually finally at an age when he's at prime years. Cutting him out to again go young is backwards to what they should be doing at a roster level.

Now if you mean at the top being the owner and therefore the GM? Hell yes. I don't think they will go anywhere ever with Pegula as the owner.

The Sabres didn’t have two young super good left shot D (coming into their primes) before to replace Dahlin. They now can trade Dahlin from a position of strength, and fill in areas of weakness. I’m not too sure of what exactly the return would be, but with so many teams bidding it should be excellent. They likely get high end players and picks/prospects. They can use those picks/prospects to acquire more nhl ready players.

 

[Chainshot]

The Sabres didn’t have two young super good left shot D (coming into their primes) before to replace Dahlin. They now can trade Dahlin from a position of strength, and fill in areas of weakness. I’m not too sure of what exactly the return would be, but with so many teams bidding it should be excellent. They likely get high end players and picks/prospects. They can use those picks/prospects to acquire more nhl ready players.

I'm saying right now, Byram and Power lean on Dahlin. It's not the other way around.

And as someone who thinks Power is going to amount to a very tall Phil Housley sort of defenseman in that he'll put up a lot of points and continue to completely disappear when games are hard, the focus of who to move is off.

And until such time that they use picks and prospects to make moves, they still have a lot of picks and prospects of their own that they haven't used to do anything yet. Your supposition is that they will move their best skater for futures to make moves that they aren't making now when they already have a full cupboard of prospects and a full suite of picks doesn't move them closer to being good. Using what they already have, including the tall candyass in Power, to put in players is something they can fully do without hamstringing themselves further.

 

[benfranklin]

Preface: I am a Kings fan, but put your themselves in your shoes
1- they know that their team isn't winning and has the playoff drought.
2-They all know their team is not run optimally , but they are powerless to stop it
2-fan is short for fanatic. Every fanbase is guilty of myopia, optimism and not wanting to hear criticism.
3- when your team inevitably goes through it's down cycle, how open would you and the other members of your fanbase be to criticism from fans of other teams? and you know what your fans are going to be aholes to those fans of other teams
4- Thomas Jefferson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ben Franklin


Maybe it's time to start a more productive crusade, Like a garden or collecting medieval armor?

2 is not true. Every move, every coach, they were screaming about how amazing it is and then when one of their own needed something and their stupid team turned on him, they threw him out too. (John Eichel).

They deserve it.