Will Kucherov get robbed of another Hart?

[Tamfastic]

Kuch will not win it due to the russian factor and because of the fact that Tampa has very deep roster. We have 4 guys over 30 goals and 6 guys over 20 goals scored. Its hard too see him being more "valuable" to the team as MacKinnon or Drai.

 

[Cup Or Bust]

The McDavid factor is real. Drais is out with McDavid 50% of the time or gets the weaker matchups without him.

Look at who Draisaitl plays with when he is not with McDavid. Tampa has four 35-40 goal scorers and one of the best d-men and goalies in the world on their team. Draisaitl is much more valuable to his team this season.

 

[daver]

Bolt fans should talk with Wing fans who still are bitter that the 2009 SCF started before their team was healthy and rested.

It is time to move on.

 

[The Macho King]

Bolt fans should talk with Wing fans who still are bitter that the 2009 SCF started before their team was healthy and rested.

It is time to move on.

Huh? Comparison makes no sense.

 

[atlanticobserver]

I think Kucherov got robbed last year, but I think it would be dumb to rob Leon this year to give it to him.

I will say we will know if we have a problem with the PHWA depending on whether Kucherov still doesn't get as many votes as MacKinnon this year. He's been flat out better this year and there's very little room for argument.

5v5 points:
Kuch 57
Drai 53
Mack 50

5v5 goals:
Drai 23
Kuch 21
Mack 14

Empty net points:
Mack 13
Kuch 10
Drai 4

Secondary assists:
Mack 30
Kuch 26
Drai 24

 

[landy]

Look at who Draisaitl plays with when he is not with McDavid. That shuts down that argument really fast. Tampa has four 35-40 goal scorers on their team. MacKinnon and Draisaitl are much more valuable to their teams this season.

He still plays with the best player in the world 50% of his ice time. McDavid makes Lehkonen and Guenstel look like traffic cones.

Draisaitl gets Orlov/Chatfield for example instead of Slavin/Burns for every single team and still his production is pretty even 30/30/30 with McDavid/without McDavid/PP. Thats not an MVP. Every single shift has the McDavid factor somewhere.

 

[landy]

I think Kucherov got robbed last year, but I think it would be dumb to rob Leon this year to give it to him.

I will say we will know if we have a problem with the PHWA depending on whether Kucherov still doesn't get as many votes as MacKinnon this year. He's been flat out better this year and there's very little room for argument.

5v5 points:
Kuch 57
Drai 53
Mack 50

5v5 goals:
Drai 23
Kuch 21
Mack 14

Empty net points:
Mack 13
Kuch 10
Drai 4

Secondary assists:
Mack 30
Kuch 26
Drai 24

There is sooooo much room for argument and showing how off you were from last year and only citing points is why you are completely wrong this year as well.

 

[The Nuge]

Kuch definitely got robbed last year, but it’s Leon’s year this year. He’s absolutely carrying the Oilers, and is running away with the Rocket. He also just passed Jagr and Ovi for most career 50/50 seasons (tied for 8th all time with Kurri) with his 4th time hitting that mark. Ovi (2 times) is the only other active player with more than 1. It’s a deserving year even if he finished a couple points back for the Art Ross

 

[Machinehead]

"Plays in a tougher conference" is a wild take.

I remember around 2011-2016 when everyone was chest beating about how great the West was.

It's like that now.

 

[Ararana]

Did he act like a little bitch at the all star game again?

 

[Beyonder91]

So, you are obviously super biased, but you think he played or plays in a tougher division than Mack?

He lost to Mack last year because Mack was more deserving. You could have made arguments for both, but my vote would have gone to Mack and at a minimum, Kuch was certainly not robbed. Will wait to see what happens this year before commenting to much….several games left to go.

By the definition of the trophy he was robbed last year. "The most valuable player to his team"
He was a part of 50% of the teams goals which is a mind boggling stat. He finished 54 points ahead of the next closest on his team. He set the record for most assists by a winger in NHL history.
This was on a team that was very poor defensively with a goalie who had a very poor year by his standards. Two of their top 3 D missed significant time. Tampa Bay had no business making the playoffs last year except for the fact that Kucherov carried them there.

This year on the other hand... I don't think he even necessarily should be a finalist as the Lightning are a significantly stronger team. Top 5 in the league in goals for and goals against with a goalie that is back in form. They actually have a second line with Hagel/Cirelli/Paul that is providing significant scoring support. McDonagh/Moser are huge additions that have helped solidify the back end.

Last year was a popularity contest with huge biases showed towards Mackinnon all year long. I do agree Mackinnon deserved the Ted Lindsay (Most outstanding player in the league) but no way was he more deserving of the Hart (by the definition of the trophy) than Kucherov was.

 

[Cup Or Bust]

He still plays with the best player in the world 50% of his ice time. McDavid makes Lehkonen and Guenstel look like traffic cones.

Draisaitl gets Orlov/Chatfield for example instead of Slavin/Burns for every single team and still his production is pretty even 30/30/30 with McDavid/without McDavid/PP. Thats not an MVP. Every single shift has the McDavid factor somewhere.

The level of talent difference between Tampa and the Oilers is such a wide gap offensively, defensively, and in goal, it's not even debatable. Draisaitl spends most of his 5 on 5 ice time playing with a 4th liner and other guys who won't even put up 30 points this season. There might have been an argument for Kucherov to win the Hart last season, but I don't see any way he is more valuable to his team then Mackinnon or Draisaitl are this season. We will definitely have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[daver]

I2 of the last 19 winners of the Hart won the Art Ross. It is not written in stone that Art = Hart.

 

[User9992]

He gets robbed because one he's Russian and two he's a winger.

Ovi didn't get robbed at all and he both

 

[User9992]

Kuch will not win it due to the russian factor and because of the fact that Tampa has very deep roster. We have 4 guys over 30 goals and 6 guys over 20 goals scored. Its hard too see him being more "valuable" to the team as MacKinnon or Drai.

Last year Tampa was awful including their goaltending, but Kuch dragged them to the Playoffs while outproducing everyone by 54 points.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Hellebucyk should win it.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

i like coming into this thread and reading the oilers and avalanche fans tell me how great my favorite team, the tampa bay lightning are. it feels nice.

 

[User9992]

By the definition of the trophy he was robbed last year. "The most valuable player to his team"
He was a part of 50% of the teams goals which is a mind boggling stat. He finished 54 points ahead of the next closest on his team. He set the record for most assists by a winger in NHL history.
This was on a team that was very poor defensively with a goalie who had a very poor year by his standards. Two of their top 3 D missed significant time. Tampa Bay had no business making the playoffs last year except for the fact that Kucherov carried them there.

This year on the other hand... I don't think he even necessary should be a finalist as the Lightning are a significantly stronger team. Top 5 in the league in goals for and goals against with a goalie that is back in form. They actually have a second line with Hagel/Cirelli/Paul that is providing significant scoring support. McDonaugh/Moser are huge additions that have helped solidify the back end.

Last year was a popularity contest with huge biases showed towards Mackinnon all year long. I do agree Mackinnon deserved the Ted Lindsay (Most outstanding player in the league) but no way was he more deserving of the Hart (by the definition of the trophy) than Kucherov was.

Agree with everything you said.

 

[NVious]

You can't have a soft dirty crybaby who sits out a year to cheat his way to a stanley cup as the MVP, it's a bad look.

 

[Hoek]

Yeah you can't say Kuch was robbed last year and then he deserves it this year when most of the arguments for him last year are muted by a better team around him this year. I think he deserves top 3 finish over MacKinnon but it really looks like Drai if you're using the same criteria as you are for Kuch 2024. Heck even if you use MacKinnon 2024 criteria (i.e. "it's his turn who cares about anything else") then it's also Drai, lol.

 

[FlyguyOX]

He's unbelievable

 

[VinikToWinIt]

Kuch deserved it last year, but I think it's Draisaitl's year.

Still, would be bizarre to see him win the Art Ross twice in a row and walk away with no Hart either year.

 

[M88K]

Kucherov should have won it last year, but It's Dria/Helle this year

The Russian factor is unfortunately real and is always going to count against Kucherov, no doubt it played a major role in him not getting it last year. But it's not like Mack was undeserving, if he wins it this year it will definitely by a wtf situation though.
The problem with NHL awards is they are by and large popularity contests.
There's tons of instances of players winning awards for their legacy or because they were "due".
Any trophy that allows subjectivity
Hart, Selke, Norris, Smythe, Calder etc is plagued by it.

 

[avsfan9]

Kuch definitely got robbed last year, but it’s Leon’s year this year. He’s absolutely carrying the Oilers, and is running away with the Rocket. He also just passed Jagr and Ovi for most career 50/50 seasons (tied for 8th all time with Kurri) with his 4th time hitting that mark. Ovi (2 times) is the only other active player with more than 1. It’s a deserving year even if he finished a couple points back for the Art Ross

I don’t understand how he got robbed last year when MacKinnon had way more first place votes. He got his Art Ross trophy for most points, that’s what that one’s for.

 

[atlanticobserver]

There is sooooo much room for argument and showing how off you were from last year and only citing points is why you are completely wrong this year as well.

MacKinnon is not an elite defender. Kucherov is not a black hole. They are apples to apples in terms of their offensive and defensive value. Colorado does not win hockey games on MacKinnon's defense any more than Tampa would lose a game for Kucherov's. It's a tired argument. All year last year Avalanche fans ragged on Kuch for power play points, empty netters, secondary assists, etc., and now that the shoe is on the other foot MacKinnon the deflection du jour is that Mack some Selke candidate.

Just stop. Kucherov is putting up better stats this year in half a dozen fewer games. Get over it. If you think the guy with more secondary assists, fewer goals, fewer 5v5 points, fewer 5v5 goals, fewer points per game, lower shooting percentage, more giveaways, etc. should get more Hart votes just because of their position or something, IDK what to tell you.