Will Atlanta Get Another Team?

[Ted Hoffman]

There were a lot of moving parts back in 1996/7.

The Atlanta bid was backed by Ted Turner but his Sports South channel was sold to Fox in late 1996.

Houston has the market. Its city-owned arena, the Summit, is 20 years old and healthy, but with only a few luxury boxes. Local officials plan to build a $175 million to $200 million downtown arena. Financing is not set, but that does not appear to be a hurdle.

However, the league is watching the infighting between Leslie Alexander and Chuck Watson, two of Houston's three bidders. Alexander owns the Houston Rockets. Watson owns the Houston Aeros of the independent International Hockey League.

Watson owns the master lease to operate the Summit, where the Rockets play. The Rockets are in court trying to break their lease, which runs to 2003, so they can move into a new arena when it is ready.

After their presentations, each Houston group made a case for itself and against the opposition.

Watson: ''We have an arena and new financing. In the last three years, our group has spent $30 million creating the demand for N.H.L. hockey.''

Alexander: ''I have the Rockets, a women's basketball team and an Arena football team. I think you need a major sports background, not just a hockey background. I don't think running a minor league franchise does that for you.''

Gavin Maloof: ''We once owned the Rockets. We have no lease-franchise conflict now. We're not entangled in suits. We can focus 100 percent on the N.H.L.''

Yesterday's presentations were made by Houston; Columbus, Ohio (with Lamar Hunt); Hamilton, Ontario, and Minneapolis-St. Paul. Today's will come from Hampton Roads, Va. (Norfolk and Virginia Beach); Oklahoma City; Nashville; Atlanta, and Raleigh-Durham, N.C. The committee will share its findings with the full board of governors this weekend in San Jose, Calif.

Cities Line Up To Join The N.H.L.

N.H.L. Names 4 Cities For Its New Franchises

What nobody knew at the time was where Karmanos would move the Whalers.

The sad legacy of the Trashers wouldn't come out until after the team moved. It has since been documented that the owners of the team were upset that the Trashers were drawing more affluent white fans and the NBA Hawks were attracting black fans which concerned the people behind ASG.

Turner still retained control of the Thrashers until the sale to Time Warner. TW didn't want the Thrashers or any other sports franchise [I've recounted the details, I'm too lazy to go dig them out again]. When TW put the Thrashers up on the market is when things started to go to crap. The comment about Atlanta Spirit crapping all over the hockey team because of the demographics of each team's fan base is accurate, and the comments about the two Houston groups fighting with each other is also often missed but incredibly pertinent to why Houston didn't get a team despite 3 bids - two of which made it to the final round.

My point is that if Fox had as much influence as is alleged, Houston would have ended up with a team despite those differences because the network would have intervened somewhere along the way to make sure the #5 market had a team so as to enhance the value of its NHL contract and its actual/potential other sports contracts.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Makes sense, those people were probably taking a wait and see approach to buying tickets and were saving their money for the later rounds should the Braves have gotten there.

Braves also had the largest capacity Stadium in MLB with Turner Field...capacity was over 50k fans.

Also the location of Truist field sucks; while geographically one could argue its better positioned to capture the NW Suburban fan, there is a huge population base on the NE side of the city (Decatur, N Druid Hills, Up through Gwinnett) that makes getting to a game in rush hour on a weekday untenable.

The ideal location for the Braves Stadium or for the next Atlanta Multi use Arena would be Somewhere in Chamblee/Doraville or Tucker/Northlake areas which are still in-town but are located on the "perimeter" (IYKYK).

I'm moving back to Atlanta from the Mtn West in a few months and will not watch ECHL hockey. I will get fired up for AHL hockey until we steal a specific Canadian team occupying a prarie/tundra wasteland and relocate them back to their rightful home in Dixie.

 

[CaptainUgly]

Braves also had the largest capacity Stadium in MLB with Turner Field...capacity was over 50k fans.

Also the location of Truist field sucks; while geographically one could argue its better positioned to capture the NW Suburban fan, there is a huge population base on the NE side of the city (Decatur, N Druid Hills, Up through Gwinnett) that makes getting to a game in rush hour on a weekday untenable.

The ideal location for the Braves Stadium or for the next Atlanta Multi use Arena would be Somewhere in Chamblee/Doraville or Tucker/Northlake areas which are still in-town but are located on the "perimeter" (IYKYK).

I'm moving back to Atlanta from the Mtn West in a few months and will not watch ECHL hockey. I will get fired up for AHL hockey until we steal a specific Canadian team occupying a prarie/tundra wasteland and relocate them back to their rightful home in Dixie.

That's about as likely as Georgia beating Alabama ROLL TIDE!!!!!

 

[voyageur]

I think the NHL would do better in Atlanta than Miami. Getting investment from some of the big corporate players in Atlanta would help the league finances. If it ever came to be that there was a division of Tampa, Atlanta, Carolina and Nashville I think that would be good for growing the sport.

 

[Fenway]

I think the NHL would do better in Atlanta than Miami. Getting investment from some of the big corporate players in Atlanta would help the league finances. If it ever came to be that there was a division of Tampa, Atlanta, Carolina and Nashville I think that would be good for growing the sport.

Bettman has said the Thrashers demise was the most frustrating moment of his leadership because it was out of his control.

The Flames owners simply could not say no to the Calgary oil people who had to get an NHL team once Edmonton did.

 

[rfournier103]

It shouldn’t.

Quebec City should be the next city to land an NHL franchise whether through expansion or relocation.

 

[joe dirte]

It shouldn’t.

Quebec City should be the next city to land an NHL franchise whether through expansion or relocation.

It depends on how you look at it.

If you look at it from the standpoint of, the people there would be incredibly appreciative, I agree. They'd support the team, no doubt.

The problem is, to support an NHL franchise you need a good mix of good gate revenue, and corporate sponsorship. The city isn't very large, so as much as a good portion of the city would support the team, i'm not so sure that would translate to enough demand in tickets to not only fill a stadium, but push prices high enough to support a team, and second, wehther they would get enough corporate sponsorship is also questionable. What companies are based in Quebec City that would cough up sponsorship dollars? Cossette and Dupont are basically the only options, i think.

Atlanta isn't a great option in my opinion either. They have the size, and they have the corporate sponsorship, but the demographics are reaaaallly bad for an NHL team.

 

[rfournier103]

It depends on how you look at it.

If you look at it from the standpoint of, the people there would be incredibly appreciative, I agree. They'd support the team, no doubt.

The problem is, to support an NHL franchise you need a good mix of good gate revenue, and corporate sponsorship. The city isn't very large, so as much as a good portion of the city would support the team, i'm not so sure that would translate to enough demand in tickets to not only fill a stadium, but push prices high enough to support a team, and second, wehther they would get enough corporate sponsorship is also questionable. What companies are based in Quebec City that would cough up sponsorship dollars? Cossette and Dupont are basically the only options, i think.

Atlanta isn't a great option in my opinion either. They have the size, and they have the corporate sponsorship, but the demographics are reaaaallly bad for an NHL team.

I know the reasons QC wouldn’t work, but if Gary Bettman can bang his head against the wall to prop up certain franchises that will never prosper in markets that will never care about hockey, I don’t see why he cant help QC.

I think Quebec City would love it’s own team, and a rivalry with Montreal. The fact that a Canadian city like that doesn’t have a team is sad to me - and I’m an American.

 

[joe dirte]

I know the reasons QC wouldn’t work, but if Gary Bettman can bang his head against the wall to prop up certain franchises that will never prosper in markets that will never care about hockey, I don’t see why he cant help QC.

I think Quebec City would love it’s own team, and a rivalry with Montreal. The fact that a Canadian city like that doesn’t have a team is sad to me - and I’m an American.

Yeah, I think it would be a great city to have a team. I wouldn't disagree.

the business reasons for other teams are there, they aren't really there for QC. The emotional reasons are.....

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I know the reasons QC wouldn’t work, but if Gary Bettman can bang his head against the wall to prop up certain franchises that will never prosper in markets that will never care about hockey, I don’t see why he cant help QC.

I think Quebec City would love it’s own team, and a rivalry with Montreal. The fact that a Canadian city like that doesn’t have a team is sad to me - and I’m an American.

Montreal killed any chance Quebec City had past the Brewery war in Canada.....

 

[blue425]

How many times does a league have to fail in a market before they get the hint?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

How many times does a league have to fail in a market before they get the hint?

Short snappy statements like this are great and hare huge time savers, and are a lot easier than looking under the hood at *why* two separate franchises left Atlanta.

It's not as simple as you apparently believe, and there are almost 800 posts in this thread alone that you might find useful.

 

[MNNumbers]

Since this is the Atlanta thread.....

Here are some obstacles that we know of:
Most recent arena remodel hasn't left the place very easy for hockey.
No other arena in the works, and the northern suburbs, where the wealthiest are, have already paid for a baseball stadium, so getting them to put up money for hockey also is a question mark.
The market, although admittedly huge, is already populated by NFL, NBA, MLB, and MLS. In a lot of places, I wouldn't worry about MLS, but it Atlanta, it is apparently very popular. This makes more competition there for a hockey team.
Who would be the owner?

Overcome those, and NHL will be happy to put a team there. Same reasons as elsewhere....primarily that the other owners don't care much about the new market's situation for its own finances, but they do care about potential media money, and places like Houston and Atlanta have tremendous potential for such.

 

[DaBadGuy7]

How many times does a league have to fail in a market before they get the hint?

Look how many times Washington didn’t work out with MLB until the Nationals moved there. Same applies to Atlanta, big market in the South where fan support and growth of hockey can be good with solid and stable ownership. NHL will definitely try again if there is a great ownership group with an great arena and/or lease.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Most recent arena remodel hasn't left the place very easy for hockey.

I thought so too, but seating wise, there is no obstructed view, believe it or not.

 

[MNNumbers]

I thought so too, but seating wise, there is no obstructed view, believe it or not.

I would love to see a configuration from an official source. Do you have one?

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I would love to see a configuration from an official source. Do you have one?

At least from what i see here, newly added seats are good for hockey.

State Farm Arena Seating View | Vivid Seats

Atlanta Hawks Virtual Venue™ by IOMEDIA

 

[DaBadGuy7]

At least from what i see here, newly added seats are good for hockey.

State Farm Arena Seating View | Vivid Seats

Atlanta Hawks Virtual Venue™ by IOMEDIA

These tweets also confirm by ATLUTD announcer on NHL configuration:

 

[Djp]

It depends on how you look at it.

If you look at it from the standpoint of, the people there would be incredibly appreciative, I agree. They'd support the team, no doubt.

The problem is, to support an NHL franchise you need a good mix of good gate revenue, and corporate sponsorship. The city isn't very large, so as much as a good portion of the city would support the team, i'm not so sure that would translate to enough demand in tickets to not only fill a stadium, but push prices high enough to support a team, and second, wehther they would get enough corporate sponsorship is also questionable. What companies are based in Quebec City that would cough up sponsorship dollars? Cossette and Dupont are basically the only options, i think.

Atlanta isn't a great option in my opinion either. They have the size, and they have the corporate sponsorship, but the demographics are reaaaallly bad for an NHL team.

atlanta had two shots...they aren’t getting a third

there are 10 cities at least ahead of them

1 Houston
2 austin
3 Kansas City
4. Portland
5 Milwaukee
6 Indianapolis
7 Cleveland
8 cincinati
9 Hamilton/ toronto 2
10 Norfolk/ Richmond
11 Charlotte
12 Louisville
13 Salt Lake City
14 Chicago 2
15 Southern California 3
16 Hartford

above are not in any sort of order

 

[DaBadGuy7]

atlanta had two shots...they aren’t getting a third

there are 10 cities at least ahead of them

1 Houston
2 austin
3 Kansas City
4. Portland
5 Milwaukee
6 Indianapolis
7 Cleveland
8 cincinati
9 Hamilton/ toronto 2
10 Norfolk/ Richmond
11 Charlotte
12 Louisville
13 Salt Lake City
14 Chicago 2
15 Southern California 3
16 Hartford

above are not in any sort of order

Yea none of those cities you listed are getting a team in next 20-30 over Atlanta except Houston and maybe Austin.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

atlanta had two shots...they aren’t getting a third

Washington had two MLB teams before the Nationals...Still got the Nationals.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

It'd take a long time for Atlanta to be reconsidered after losing two teams.

But with the new expansion draft rules it might work, but general managers will get crafty come the next one.

 

[Stephen]

Washington had two MLB teams before the Nationals...Still got the Nationals.

I would say the key difference is Washington DC is a significant American market, the US Capitol and baseball is "America's past time" so there's at least a cultural fit.

Atlanta is a huge market but hockey in the Deep South is a very case by case situation and isn't really a natural fit, like putting an NBA team in Saskatchewan or something like that.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I would say the key difference is Washington DC is a significant American market, the US Capitol and baseball is "America's past time" so there's at least a cultural fit.

Atlanta is a huge market but hockey in the Deep South is a very case by case situation and isn't really a natural fit, like putting an NBA team in Saskatchewan or something like that.

There is no case by case, its win and they show up.

What's the difference between Florida Panthers and Tampa Bay Lightning? Right.

 

[Stephen]

There is no case by case, its win and they show up.

What's the difference between Florida Panthers and Tampa Bay Lightning? Right.

By that logic, you could put a winning team anywhere and people will show up. But what's Atlanta bringing to the NHL community that the league needs to be there, if they're going to be the Lightning in good times and the Panthers when it's not good?