Will Atlanta Get Another Team?

[BKIslandersFan]

How so. The thread is "Will Atlanta Get Another team?" . The answer from the NHL is NO. Because they can't meet the basic criteria and it doesn't appear like they will anytime soon. So, again.... no!

Anytime soon doesn’t mean never. So again. Pointless.

 

[Tawnos]

Literally nobody is saying it’s happening right now so this is a pointless post.

How so. The thread is "Will Atlanta Get Another team?" . The answer from the NHL is NO. Because they can't meet the basic criteria and it doesn't appear like they will anytime soon. So, again.... no!

Anytime soon doesn’t mean never. So again. Pointless.

this thread has turned into just BoH regulars carping at each other.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Yeah, I think the real discussion over what Atlanta needs to get another team was covered a while back. However, I'm going to go back on touch on something that I think gets overlooked way too often by way too many people. Rearranging cbcwpg's post to fit the situation in 2011:

From Bettman.. 3 things you must have to have a team or as he calls them " show stoppers ".

1 -You want to understand the market and can it support NHL hockey," Bettman said. "Would it be a good addition to the league?

2- An owner

3- Most importantly.. an arena

Once the other stakeholders in Atlanta Spirit dumped Steve Belkin and decided they wanted to dump the Thrashers, the team was doomed in Atlanta. ASG didn't care if the team was profitable, they didn't care if the team could be profitable, it simply wanted the open dates the Thrashers had on the Phillips Arena schedule for literally anything else and it was going to do everything possible to ensure that the team was going to move once the 7-year agreement not to move the team was up.

It didn't matter how popular hockey might have been in Atlanta and who from the area might have been interested in buying the team. The only place to play was at Phillips, which meant negotiating a lease with ASG - and ASG wasn't going to do that, nor did it have any obligation to do so. No one else was building a new arena with Phillips only about 12 years old, and the NHL wasn't going to let a prospective owner put the Thrashers in a 13,000 seat arena. ASG held all the cards, and it knew it - and it was hell-bent on getting the Thrashers shipped out of Atlanta.

 

[Stephen]

Does anyone remember why ASG was so adamant not to have 41 guaranteed dates in their facility? Seems weird they were so adamant to get the Thrashers out.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Does anyone remember why ASG was so adamant not to have 41 guaranteed dates in their facility? Seems weird they were so adamant to get the Thrashers out.

They figured they could make more money booking concerts, wrestling and other events. Without the expense of running the team.

 

[DaBadGuy7]

The only way Atlanta gets a shot imo if there is a billionaire with the investors that wants to relocate a franchise and either builds a new arena or shares SFA with hockey modifications. Much like MLB with DC, I don’t see Atlanta getting another expansion franchise.

 

[nhlfan79]

They figured they could make more money booking concerts, wrestling and other events. Without the expense of running the team.

Close. The main reason actually was ASG's resentful belief that the hockey team was diverting fan dollars that would otherwise be spent on their preferred Hawks franchise. It cannot be emphasized enough that they were all basketball guys who were "forced" to also take a hockey team none of them wanted in order to gain entry into the NBA ownership fraternity.

This all came out when Bruce Levenson was (finally) outed as a malicious bigot and the entire ASG operation crashed and burned.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Close. The main reason actually was ASG's resentful belief that the hockey team was diverting fan dollars that would otherwise be spent on their preferred Hawks franchise. It cannot be emphasized enough that they were all basketball guys who were "forced" to also take a hockey team none of them wanted in order to gain entry into the NBA ownership fraternity.

This all came out when Bruce Levenson was (finally) outed as a malicious bigot and the entire ASG operation crashed and burned.

Yep. Also, surprised it hasn't been discussed that A$G spent years suing each other over a disagreement of an NBA trade. Talk about dysfunctional. I guess the writing was on the wall when one of the main owners was wearing a Celtics jersey in the owners box during the playoffs when the Hawks played Boston.

Question...Why on earth did the NHL owners vote to approve the sale to ASG when they were public about not wanting the hockey team? Did the NBA vote trump the NHL?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

When the sale to ASG was done, Steve Belkin was still part of the ownership group. He was interested in the Thrashers IIRC; it was the rest of the group that wasn't. That last part didn't come out until well after the sale.

 

[MNNumbers]

Yep. Also, surprised it hasn't been discussed that A$G spent years suing each other over a disagreement of an NBA trade. Talk about dysfunctional. I guess the writing was on the wall when one of the main owners was wearing a Celtics jersey in the owners box during the playoffs when the Hawks played Boston.

Question...Why on earth did the NHL owners vote to approve the sale to ASG when they were public about not wanting the hockey team? Did the NBA vote trump the NHL?

When the sale to ASG was done, Steve Belkin was still part of the ownership group. He was interested in the Thrashers IIRC; it was the rest of the group that wasn't. That last part didn't come out until well after the sale.

Had the NHL denied the sale, what would have been different? Perhaps nothing except an even earlier exit. Maybe the properties get split up, and the Thrashers have to leave earlier.

Does anyone know the condition of their lease when the sale was made to ASG?

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Had the NHL denied the sale, what would have been different? Perhaps nothing except an even earlier exit. Maybe the properties get split up, and the Thrashers have to leave earlier.

Does anyone know the condition of their lease when the sale was made to ASG?

They had a handshake deal with another buyer (David McDavid) who wanted the entire package. Even if they didn't, the board was voting on an ownership group who were vocal about not wanting the team. Who knows what would have happened, but you can't approve someone who 100% doesn't want the team.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

They had a handshake deal with another buyer (David McDavid) who wanted the entire package. Even if they didn't, the board was voting on an ownership group who were vocal about not wanting the team. Who knows what would have happened, but you can't approve someone who 100% doesn't want the team.

Refresh my memory on this, please. I thought that the sentiment of not wanting the team wasn't expressed publicly or to the NHL, but came out after the fact. I know that the majority of the owners didn't want the Thrashers [which added to the push to get Belkin out], but I thought that Belkin was OK with the Thrashers. The fact that Turner's son-in-law was a member of Atlanta Spirit was an item that played large in McDavid's lawsuit [along with the comments from Time Warner that there was practically a deal with McDavid in place] but I thought ASG's disdain for the Thrashers was concealed from at least the NHL.

Because if the NHL knew that ASG had zero interest in the Thrashers, I find it hard to imagine the BoG would have still green-lighted the sale. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Refresh my memory on this, please. I thought that the sentiment of not wanting the team wasn't expressed publicly or to the NHL, but came out after the fact. I know that the majority of the owners didn't want the Thrashers [which added to the push to get Belkin out], but I thought that Belkin was OK with the Thrashers. The fact that Turner's son-in-law was a member of Atlanta Spirit was an item that played large in McDavid's lawsuit [along with the comments from Time Warner that there was practically a deal with McDavid in place] but I thought ASG's disdain for the Thrashers was concealed from at least the NHL.

Because if the NHL knew that ASG had zero interest in the Thrashers, I find it hard to imagine the BoG would have still green-lighted the sale. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.

It was public that the ASG was trying to negotiate for the arena and Hawks only, and didn’t want to purchase the Thrashers, but it was total package or nothing. McDavid was willing to buy the package and had a deal, but ASG had plans of selling off the Thrashers immediately following the sale, which ended up being delayed.

 

[BattleBorn]

Does anyone remember why ASG was so adamant not to have 41 guaranteed dates in their facility? Seems weird they were so adamant to get the Thrashers out.

As previously mentioned, the concert/event things, plus you've got the labor and prep work for the ice/floor conversion. The league also requires the arena to be 60 degrees and 35% humidity pre-game, which I'm sure requires a lot of work/money spent on HVAC in a place like Atlanta. Remove the ice and you remove a lot of the temperature and humidity requirements for a day or two prior to a hockey game.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

This article tells the entire story for those who need it.

Lawsuit: Thrashers owners have been trying to sell team since 2005

 

[sexydonut]

This article tells the entire story for those who need it.

Lawsuit: Thrashers owners have been trying to sell team since 2005

It's not even the entire story. Operating losses include the costs for executive compensation, and legal fees.

Considering the team's band of dysfunctional owners bought the team on leverage (e.g. Toys R Us, Sears, and everything touched by real estate flippers), and were each trying to extract a pound of flesh at the expense of the team and each other, and were suing each other, the operating losses could very well have been manufactured and then wildly inflated. If the team were really that much of a loss maker, why were similar franchises actually making money?

Hell, Harold Ballard and Bill Wirtz lived like Kings while looting their respective teams. Ditto with Jeffrey Loria and both Montreal and Miami baseball teams.

It's just so easy to be a corporate looter. It's also frustrating to see the business media regurgitate a few talking points and critically omit relevant aspects of financial chicanery. It's as if the business media is not just credulous, but willfully abetting white collar crime.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

It's not even the entire story. Operating losses include the costs for executive compensation, and legal fees.

Considering the team's band of dysfunctional owners bought the team on leverage (e.g. Toys R Us, Sears, and everything touched by real estate flippers), and were each trying to extract a pound of flesh at the expense of the team and each other, and were suing each other, the operating losses could very well have been manufactured and then wildly inflated. If the team were really that much of a loss maker, why were similar franchises actually making money?

Hell, Harold Ballard and Bill Wirtz lived like Kings while looting their respective teams. Ditto with Jeffrey Loria and both Montreal and Miami baseball teams.

It's just so easy to be a corporate looter. It's also frustrating to see the business media regurgitate a few talking points and critically omit relevant aspects of financial chicanery. It's as if the business media is not just credulous, but willfully abetting white collar crime.

Which takes me back to asking how/why on earth would the BOG approve that sale.

 

[sexydonut]

Lack of oversight, or because the old owners knew they had the leverage and could be as bad as they wanted to be.

What about Boots DelBiaggio, or the idiots who ran Tampa into the ground, or the nobody who sweet talked the Islanders, or Bruce McNall? The NHL board of governors are rich and powerful. They may or may not be competent nor responsible.

 

[rkhum]

Close. The main reason actually was ASG's resentful belief that the hockey team was diverting fan dollars that would otherwise be spent on their preferred Hawks franchise. It cannot be emphasized enough that they were all basketball guys who were "forced" to also take a hockey team none of them wanted in order to gain entry into the NBA ownership fraternity.

This all came out when Bruce Levenson was (finally) outed as a malicious bigot and the entire ASG operation crashed and burned.

So...

ASG wants to own the Hawks, they have to buy the Thrashers
....Who can't move for 7 years
....ASG feels the Thrashers 'cannabilize' the Hawks, and they would make more money without the hockey competition and booking concerts

That about it?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

This article tells the entire story for those who need it.

Lawsuit: Thrashers owners have been trying to sell team since 2005

I'm going to nitpick here. This article doesn't tell me where ASG was saying publicly that it didn't want the Thrashers, but decided to plunk down money anyway for it and the BoG approved the sale to ASG knowing it didn't want the franchise. I could be missing it somewhere in there, but I'm not seeing it.

In private? Yeah, ASG [or at least the majority of it] was saying that amongst itself. Outside of that? That's the piece I'm looking for. [Partially to fill that hole, partially so I can add that to my list of "things I keep for future reference."]

 

[nhlfan79]

I'm going to nitpick here. This article doesn't tell me where ASG was saying publicly that it didn't want the Thrashers, but decided to plunk down money anyway for it and the BoG approved the sale to ASG knowing it didn't want the franchise. I could be missing it somewhere in there, but I'm not seeing it.

In private? Yeah, ASG [or at least the majority of it] was saying that amongst itself. Outside of that? That's the piece I'm looking for. [Partially to fill that hole, partially so I can add that to my list of "things I keep for future reference."]

It was public, but only after their later admission in court filings that they were trying to "otherwise dispose of" the Thrashers as early as 2005, less than a year after acquiring them. They never said publicly at the time they bought them that they didn't want them from the get go. That's what made ASG so sinister. They maintained the lie that the team was not for sale for six years before they finally came clean mere months before the team was sold to True North.

 

[sexydonut]

The ASG carpet baggers basically repeated the "private equity" type slash and burn gutting of the McCaw brothers buying the Canucks/Grizzlies, running up the losses, then selling one franchise to generate some quick cash.

Ironically, the Orca Bay/ASG had kept their 2nd franchises, just the asset appreciation alone would make them much wealthier.

 

[oknazevad]

The ASG carpet baggers basically repeated the "private equity" type slash and burn gutting of the McCaw brothers buying the Canucks/Grizzlies, running up the losses, then selling one franchise to generate some quick cash.

Ironically, the Orca Bay/ASG had kept their 2nd franchises, just the asset appreciation alone would make them much wealthier.

Well, no one would ever accuse vulture capitalists of long-term thinking.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

It was public, but only after their later admission in court filings that they were trying to "otherwise dispose of" the Thrashers as early as 2005, less than a year after acquiring them. They never said publicly at the time they bought them that they didn't want them from the get go. That's what made ASG so sinister. They maintained the lie that the team was not for sale for six years before they finally came clean mere months before the team was sold to True North.

I think it came out way sooner than that. McDavid was really PO'ed that the deal they had in place fell through at the last minute and was really quick to tell the entire story. Before Belkin was even suing the group.

 

[Spirit of 67]

It won't be any time soon but I think the NHL would love to be in that market.
They may give it another go.