AHL: Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins: '24-'25 The Players Sully Hates

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

I feel like even our supposed top end guys never pan out. Other teams will often see these random 5th rounders who tear up junior and fans get excited about fizzle, but largely their first rounders seem to meet expectations (the good organizations, anyway). But with us, even guys who were projected to be "top line forward/top pairing defense" at the time they were drafted end up being fringe 4th liners.

Top end guys? What's that?

In all seriousness, who was the last real blue chip prospect the Pens had other than maybe Guentzel? They had a chance at one and completely blew it in 2012 when they selected Pouliot instead of Forsberg who most of this board wanted. I recall some wanted Trouba who also would have been a MUCH better selection.

Before that....Staal? Plus even that pick wasn't that great considering Toews, Backstrom and Kessel all ended up being much better players and were also considered better by most experts at the time as well.

Not to mention giving away a young 30-40 goal scorer like McCann certainly doesn't help with talent acquisition.

The drafting/development has been horrendous for a long time now. Their last real successful pick was Guentzel and that's over 11 years ago....before that it was Rust which was almost 15 years ago.

 

[Darren McCord]

McGroat will be fine. His start was handled in the worst way possible.

He should benefit a lot more with Puustinen, Pono and Poulin going down.

WBS is a good team. McGroat is being given time to work things out.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Good news for WBS, selfishly I'm happy he didn't get claimed!

 

[Darren McCord]

Good news for WBS, selfishly I'm happy he didn't get claimed!

Me too. WBS having a good year will be great for young players on the team.

McGroat
Broz
Pono
Koivunen
Hayes
Blomqvist
Belliveau

Are all players that I am intrigued about. I am really intrigued by Belliveau think Belliveau is quietly starting to break out down there after being in the ECHL last season.

7gp 1g 2a +8

His +8 is 19th in the league but most guys have 10 more games than him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Good news for WBS, selfishly I'm happy he didn't get claimed!

I hoped he would, mostly to see what he could do in any other system. I just don't see him getting used properly ever on the Penguins and trying to discuss him brings out the shit stained trolls in our own board which I had to just put on ignore at this point. But for WBS, this is great, I guess the game I was going to watch on the 29th will be a little more fun. I could barely watch the game today, just watched the Blues game and the Stars shit the bed vs the Hawks instead.

I will never understand the logic behind a rebuilding team having scoring wingers and using them on the 4th or 3rd line or healthy scratch, how they utilized Puusty was idiotic, but what they're doing to Puljujarvi is also f***ing bizarre and insanely out of touch. Just not worth the time talking about the team as much anymore while Sullivan is there.

I'm just going to watch more WBS games this year, the team is fun to watch with Kirk MacDonald as the coach. The long layoff really sucks though, was hoping to see Gruden, Koivunen, and Broz build up their momentum, even Bemstrom.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He should benefit a lot more with Puustinen, Pono and Poulin going down.

WBS is a good team. McGroat is being given time to work things out.

I just want to see McGroarty show more of his offensive flair, so far his board work, his positioning, etc - they're all good, no complaints there, but his nose for the net, I want to see him play a little more selfish with the puck. He's got the playmaking smarts for sure but he doesn't take the puck and just drive to the net or get close enough in the slot to get his shot off. He's also gotta shoot the puck a lot more, I mean if you get almost 4 shots on net per game like Bemstrom, it doesn't mean shit if it's all perimeter shots, for a player like Rutger, you want to see the obvious skating improvement but he also has a pretty good size for driving the net more often.

The last time Poulin, Pono, etc were in WBS the line-up was:

Bemstrom, Ponomarev, Koivunen
McGroarty, Broz, Poulin
Nieto, Katchouk, Gruden
Andonovski, Koppanen, Johnstone

In the most recent game (last 2):

Bemstrom, Katchouk, Koivunen
McGroarty, Broz, Johnstone
Gruden, Koppanen, Hayes
Imama, Ansons, Joshua

On the 13th it was:

Bems, Pono, Koivu
McG, Broz, Nieto
Gruden, Katch, Andro
Imama, Koppa, Johnstone

I would figure they'd go with the last 2 and substitute it as...

Bemstrom, Ponomarev, Koivunen
McGroarty, Broz, Puustinen/Poulin - Poulin could just slot back into his old spot which would mean Puusty on the 3rd with Gruden and Katchouk.
Gruden, Katchouk, Puustinen/Poulin
Imama, Koppanen, Hayes

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think McG's got much offensive flair or creativity tbh. I say this as a big McG fanboy. It's why I think he should be up and learning to sort his shit out alongside a Sid or Geno tbh, even with Sully around. If we're waiting for him to post gaudy numbers, we're going to be disappointed forever imo. His value comes as an addition to a line, not a play/production driver imo. He's tough to judge in a vacuum. A smart player who settles into the middle of the ice or along the boards and either cleans up pucks or gets pucks to his linemates. He's gotta learn and adapt to the speed, strength, and skill at the NHL level.

Would definitely like to see more production from him in the AHL though. I do like that he, Broz and Koivunen have shown some nice chemistry together at times. Might have the makings of a solid 3rd line for a long time there.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yay a solid 3rd line.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't think McG's got much offensive flair or creativity tbh. I say this as a big McG fanboy. It's why I think he should be up and learning to sort his shit out alongside a Sid or Geno tbh, even with Sully around. If we're waiting for him to post gaudy numbers, we're going to be disappointed forever imo. His value comes as an addition to a line, not a play/production driver imo. He's tough to judge in a vacuum. A smart player who settles into the middle of the ice or along the boards and either cleans up pucks or gets pucks to his linemates. He's gotta learn and adapt to the speed, strength, and skill at the NHL level.

Would definitely like to see more production from him in the AHL though. I do like that he, Broz and Koivunen have shown some nice chemistry together at times. Might have the makings of a solid 3rd line for a long time there.

I think I would move Poulin to the LW and put Hayes up on the 2nd line with Poulin and Broz and then go a 3rd line of McGroarty, Katchouk, Puustinen and see if that sparks something for McG.

I think Avery Hayes has earned some top 6 time.

Personally, I liked Yager, I didn't think we needed McGroarty at all and when I saw the trade go down and dug through his scouting and what not, the knock being skating really didn't give me much hope but it is what it is, he's a Penguin now and at best all you can do is just hope he develops under a good coach before the dipshit in the NHL f***s with him more. At best, Kirk can make him Sully proof. Hopefully. I don't even want Broz to be called up, I don't want Sullivan near him at all.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yay a solid 3rd line.

What do you expect from middle-to-late 1st/2nd rounders? This team's been cosplaying as a contender for years despite evidence to the contrary. Between middling 1st rounders, an idiot coach with no desire to develop prospects, and previous FOs throwing away 1sts without a thought--of course this team doesn't have anything significant lying around. Doesn't mean they're all totally worthless though, imo.

It's just being honest with the situation though. It sucks, but there are some guys who may turn into NHLers of some impact. They're not building blocks, but they can be useful. This team's gonna be (hopefully) drafting those building blocks in the next handful of years as they completely bottom out. Ideally starting with a Martone or Schaefer this summer.

Still gotta fire the idiot coach in any event, and before he has any influence on the upcoming draft or off-season moves.

I think I would move Poulin to the LW and put Hayes up on the 2nd line with Poulin and Broz and then go a 3rd line of McGroarty, Katchouk, Puustinen and see if that sparks something for McG.

I think Avery Hayes has earned some top 6 time.

Personally, I liked Yager, I didn't think we needed McGroarty at all and when I saw the trade go down and dug through his scouting and what not, the knock being skating really didn't give me much hope but it is what it is, he's a Penguin now and at best all you can do is just hope he develops under a good coach before the dipshit in the NHL f***s with him more. At best, Kirk can make him Sully proof. Hopefully. I don't even want Broz to be called up, I don't want Sullivan near him at all.

Yeah Hayes has been playing surprisingly well. I think he was impressive in camp/pre-season as well, wasn't he?

I liked Yager too. When it became public the Winnipeg-McG relationship was unsalvageable, I was hoping Dubas would be able to swing a deal for McG without paying a 1st or Yager. Don't know if it was possible though.

I think McG's skating is fine tbh. Not good, but people (not you per se) bang on about it like he's got the wheels of a 39 year old Carter or something. He's just not a burner and he's not gonna dance people. But he gets around alright, and he's smart enough to position himself well most of the time so he doesn't need to be chasing the play where his footspeed becomes a big issue.

In the end, I think they're both middle-6 guys. Different styles, of course, but neither is really that impressive a prospect. I think if McG pans out perfectly, you might have a Landeskog/Hornqvist/Kunitz type, which is fine but isn't gonna rack up points. If Yager pans out perfectly, you might have a McCann type guy there who uses his skating and shot, which is also fine but not someone you build a line around, let alone a roster. The McCann type is definitely gonna stand out more though.

Just gonna have to wait and see how it all plays out. I think we should be watching a McG-Geno-Puljujarvi 2nd line and like a Poulin-Broz-DOC 3rd right now tbh. But y'know, Dullivan.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What do you expect from middle-to-late 1st/2nd rounders? This team's been cosplaying as a contender for years despite evidence to the contrary. Between middling 1st rounders, an idiot coach with no desire to develop prospects, and previous FOs throwing away 1sts without a thought--of course this team doesn't have anything significant lying around. Doesn't mean they're all totally worthless though, imo.

It's just being honest with the situation though. It sucks, but there are some guys who may turn into NHLers of some impact. They're not building blocks, but they can be useful. This team's gonna be (hopefully) drafting those building blocks in the next handful of years as they completely bottom out. Ideally starting with a Martone or Schaefer this summer.

Still gotta fire the idiot coach in any event, and before he has any influence on the upcoming draft or off-season moves.

Yeah Hayes has been playing surprisingly well. I think he was impressive in camp/pre-season as well, wasn't he?

I liked Yager too. When it became public the Winnipeg-McG relationship was unsalvageable, I was hoping Dubas would be able to swing a deal for McG without paying a 1st or Yager. Don't know if it was possible though.

I think McG's skating is fine tbh. Not good, but people (not you per se) bang on about it like he's got the wheels of a 39 year old Carter or something. He's just not a burner and he's not gonna dance people. But he gets around alright, and he's smart enough to position himself well most of the time so he doesn't need to be chasing the play where his footspeed becomes a big issue.

In the end, I think they're both middle-6 guys. Different styles, of course, but neither is really that impressive a prospect. I think if McG pans out perfectly, you might have a Landeskog/Hornqvist/Kunitz type, which is fine but isn't gonna rack up points. If Yager pans out perfectly, you might have a McCann type guy there who uses his skating and shot, which is also fine but not someone you build a line around, let alone a roster. The McCann type is definitely gonna stand out more though.

I don't think McGroarty is slow, his smarts allow him to be in good positioning but he also hangs back a lot to be a support player but above the dot and not below, so he doesn't into the corners or behind the net to battle and he hangs back. I think in his head he's been told he isn't fast enough so he plays cautiously because of it, that's something he can work on too. If you watch his skating, he has strong strides, but they're choppy as shit. He just needs some hard work with getting a smoother stride, his cross overs, his edge work, stuff like that can be improved and you won't suddenly become Connor McDavid, but his skating can definitely improve like Carter Verhaeghe's did.

Verhaeghe is who I felt is the best comparison for Rutger with how he plays, both had the knock of skating and both were pass first playmakers around the same age, for Carter he worked a ton on his balance and edge work and it got him a smoother stride and he was able to use his strides more effectively rather than the choppy style Rutger has imo. So that can be fixed, I just think the biggest waste was them shoving him in every pre-season game and then wasting him in the line-up under Sullivan, I felt he should have been with WBS to start with and he could have worked on more stuff right from the get go. But his skating doesn't worry me, if Carter can fix his with hard work, Rutger is no slouch in wanting to work hard and improve either.

But as for the whole falling out with the Jets, I thought the Pens would kick the tires and land him for something like Pickering and a pick for Rutger and a later pick, something to that extent at most. But Yager straight up? I wasn't a fan of that and I said this at the time - the Pens needed Rutger IN ADDITION TO Yager in this prospect pool, I definitely didn't want to see the Pens move Lucius or anything like that, Rutger is familiar with Chaz in the Jets system and Cruz and Rutger were on the US U18 back in 2021-22. Curious what Cruz does with the Sun Devils after 2yrs with the Badgers.

But yeah, maybe I wasn't that high on Pickering if anything and was ok losing him for Rutger to add to Yager, Lucius, Pono, Koivunen, Broz, etc.

Just gonna have to wait and see how it all plays out. I think we should be watching a McG-Geno-Puljujarvi 2nd line and like a Poulin-Broz-DOC 3rd right now tbh. But y'know, Dullivan.

We should be watching a lot of different shit if it weren't for Dullivan (nice btw lol).

It's funny that he thinks he "tries" things and it's usually the bare minimum, like he won't put Bunting with Sid, he won't try Puljujarvi with Sid or even a combination of JP and Geno with another LW, he abandoned a solid 3rd line last year that he didn't want to try this year and Eller suffered because of it and Doc has been a mess as well, he basically survives off of the other team being far worse and a major performance out of Sid, Geno, or EK. I don't want any more prospects up until that f***wad is fired. Let's hope this is the last season, they might wait to do it in the off season out of respect but if they play the whole money owed angle then what the f*** are they Billionaires for? Especially ones that want success with Hockey, because Sullivan ain't it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think McGroarty is slow, his smarts allow him to be in good positioning but he also hangs back a lot to be a support player but above the dot and not below, so he doesn't into the corners or behind the net to battle and he hangs back. I think in his head he's been told he isn't fast enough so he plays cautiously because of it, that's something he can work on too. If you watch his skating, he has strong strides, but they're choppy as shit. He just needs some hard work with getting a smoother stride, his cross overs, his edge work, stuff like that can be improved and you won't suddenly become Connor McDavid, but his skating can definitely improve like Carter Verhaeghe's did.

Verhaeghe is who I felt is the best comparison for Rutger with how he plays, both had the knock of skating and both were pass first playmakers around the same age, for Carter he worked a ton on his balance and edge work and it got him a smoother stride and he was able to use his strides more effectively rather than the choppy style Rutger has imo. So that can be fixed, I just think the biggest waste was them shoving him in every pre-season game and then wasting him in the line-up under Sullivan, I felt he should have been with WBS to start with and he could have worked on more stuff right from the get go. But his skating doesn't worry me, if Carter can fix his with hard work, Rutger is no slouch in wanting to work hard and improve either.

But as for the whole falling out with the Jets, I thought the Pens would kick the tires and land him for something like Pickering and a pick for Rutger and a later pick, something to that extent at most. But Yager straight up? I wasn't a fan of that and I said this at the time - the Pens needed Rutger IN ADDITION TO Yager in this prospect pool, I definitely didn't want to see the Pens move Lucius or anything like that, Rutger is familiar with Chaz in the Jets system and Cruz and Rutger were on the US U18 back in 2021-22. Curious what Cruz does with the Sun Devils after 2yrs with the Badgers.

But yeah, maybe I wasn't that high on Pickering if anything and was ok losing him for Rutger to add to Yager, Lucius, Pono, Koivunen, Broz, etc.

We should be watching a lot of different shit if it weren't for Dullivan (nice btw lol).

It's funny that he thinks he "tries" things and it's usually the bare minimum, like he won't put Bunting with Sid, he won't try Puljujarvi with Sid or even a combination of JP and Geno with another LW, he abandoned a solid 3rd line last year that he didn't want to try this year and Eller suffered because of it and Doc has been a mess as well, he basically survives off of the other team being far worse and a major performance out of Sid, Geno, or EK. I don't want any more prospects up until that f***wad is fired. Let's hope this is the last season, they might wait to do it in the off season out of respect but if they play the whole money owed angle then what the f*** are they Billionaires for? Especially ones that want success with Hockey, because Sullivan ain't it.

Yeah, I'm definitely in the camp where you should be accumulating picks/prospects as opposed to just shuffling them around. It's why I'm wary of chasing Jiricek, even if he's thought of as a very good prospect, if it's gonna cost McG. In a vacuum? Sure, that's fine. But this team should be amassing these guys, not just swapping them in and out imo.

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah, I'm definitely in the camp where you should be accumulating picks/prospects as opposed to just shuffling them around. It's why I'm wary of chasing Jiricek, even if he's thought of as a very good prospect, if it's gonna cost McG. In a vacuum? Sure, that's fine. But this team should be amassing these guys, not just swapping them in and out imo.

What if Dubas' master plan is to keep trading up with prospects until he ends up with an elite talent? Think about it. Yager into McGroarty into Jiricek into ???? If Dubas keeps slightly upgrading the quality of prospect we have he might eventually end up with something.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah, I'm definitely in the camp where you should be accumulating picks/prospects as opposed to just shuffling them around. It's why I'm wary of chasing Jiricek, even if he's thought of as a very good prospect, if it's gonna cost McG. In a vacuum? Sure, that's fine. But this team should be amassing these guys, not just swapping them in and out imo.

I don't think I would pay up the cost for Jiricek, that means you're creating another hole to fill another and honestly I am fine with seeing how Brunicke develops as I think he could be a real ace find by Dubas and the scouting staff. I also think Vaisanen is a pretty decent RHD prospect as well. Are either of them David Jiricek caliber? No, but this Penguins team isn't ready for a David Jiricek right now and getting him to develop under Sullivan would just mean they wasted a lot to get a prospect that a dipshit is going to ruin.

I'd rather keep the picks and prospects and add more picks and prospects by dumping vets, also see how Brunicke, Pietila, Pieniniemi, and Vaisanen develop - in addition to Pickering.

And of course longer shots like Laatsch and Belliveau.

Also I think the other teams that want him will definitely pony up more and the Pens are not in the position to be in a bidding war for a prospect that likely wants to play in the NHL right now and the other teams that want him will definitely be fine doing that and are probably in a better position as well to add him to the fold. Pens? That defense is a shit show, WBS plays with structure and pace, the big club plays like they're not sure what the coach wants out of them.

You look at the prospect pool and what teams like the Wild, Flyers, and Preds can offer and the Pens should bow out of that. Trotz is a dipshit, I don't think he gives a f*** what he has in Nashville now or the future and would definitely try to out bid anyone for Jiricek especially after that royal f*** up with Fabbro. Like who keeps Luke Schenn over Dante Fabbro? Lmao.

I think the Jackets and Preds end up making the deal. Something like Jiricek to Nashville for one of L'Heureux/Evanglista and one of their lower firsts they have (they have 3 first rounders). I'd probably be something else going the Preds way if they want that 1st, maybe taking a cap dump or something, but yeah I think the Preds or Flyers probably land him.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think I would pay up the cost for Jiricek, that means you're creating another hole to fill another and honestly I am fine with seeing how Brunicke develops as I think he could be a real ace find by Dubas and the scouting staff. I also think Vaisanen is a pretty decent RHD prospect as well. Are either of them David Jiricek caliber? No, but this Penguins team isn't ready for a David Jiricek right now and getting him to develop under Sullivan would just mean they wasted a lot to get a prospect that a dipshit is going to ruin.

I'd rather keep the picks and prospects and add more picks and prospects by dumping vets, also see how Brunicke, Pietila, Pieniniemi, and Vaisanen develop - in addition to Pickering.

And of course longer shots like Laatsch and Belliveau.

Also I think the other teams that want him will definitely pony up more and the Pens are not in the position to be in a bidding war for a prospect that likely wants to play in the NHL right now and the other teams that want him will definitely be fine doing that and are probably in a better position as well to add him to the fold. Pens? That defense is a shit show, WBS plays with structure and pace, the big club plays like they're not sure what the coach wants out of them.

You look at the prospect pool and what teams like the Wild, Flyers, and Preds can offer and the Pens should bow out of that. Trotz is a dipshit, I don't think he gives a f*** what he has in Nashville now or the future and would definitely try to out bid anyone for Jiricek especially after that royal f*** up with Fabbro. Like who keeps Luke Schenn over Dante Fabbro? Lmao.

I like the idea of trying to flip Petts for a late 1st from a contender and sending that with someone like Larsson, who may be attractive to Columbus but isn't on the same level as Blomqvist or Murashov. If that doesn't work, oh well. Walk away and focus elsewhere.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What if Dubas' master plan is to keep trading up with prospects until he ends up with an elite talent? Think about it. Yager into McGroarty into Jiricek into ???? If Dubas keeps slightly upgrading the quality of prospect we have he might eventually end up with something.

At Sullivan's behest, Dubas will be on the never ending search for the next Noel Acciari.