Prospect Info: Wild Prospect Thread 2024 25

[57special]

Nope. I think they'll pencil him in for some AHL seasoning at this point. Maybe he crushes it, but either way, at 21 too soon to panic. Not a Kaprizov-level talent but not many are.

I'd be thrilled with a Buchnevich type talent, but that's a lot to ask.

 

[57special]

He actually scored a goal today.



I would have liked to see him get his NHL shot like Marat last year, it's not like he could make the team any less exciting at this point. But I think Russo was saying they can't even do that for cap reasons, so all we can do is wait for Buium.

Weird....Elite Prospects had him with zero points.... I guess they haven't included today's game yet.

 

[Mnsportsfan22]

Nope. I think they'll pencil him in for some AHL seasoning at this point. Maybe he crushes it, but either way, at 21 too soon to panic. Not a Kaprizov-level talent but not many are.

Russo said on his last podcast 0% chance he plays a second in Iowa. Straight to the nhl or won't come

 

[DigitalBoldy]

He actually scored a goal today.



I would have liked to see him get his NHL shot like Marat last year, it's not like he could make the team any less exciting at this point. But I think Russo was saying they can't even do that for cap reasons, so all we can do is wait for Buium.

Dude is a Yurov hater for some reason. Even if Yurov doesn't play center, he's an immediate upgrade on wingers not named Kaprizov or Boldy.

 

[AKL]

Bet we'd have the cap space to sign him now if we waived Trenin

 

[f7ben]

Bet we'd have the cap space to sign him now if we waived Trenin

Is there something more extreme than waiving? Something between waiving and sharks with lasers on their frickin heads

 

[DigitalBoldy]

Bet we'd have the cap space to sign him now if we waived Trenin

We would have the cap space if we put Ek on LTIR to end the season. Sounds like the earliest he would be back is the last game of the regular season...

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Russia stats are just weird. I forget that Kaprizov was a measly 5 points over PPG his last year in Russia. 2 years later and he drops 108 in the NHL.

25 in 50 doesn't look great, but I'm still not crossing much of anything off, except that I don't think he'll be Kaprizov. I have pretty much everything below that still in play.

 

[Wasted Talent]

Russia stats are just weird. I forget that Kaprizov was a measly 5 points over PPG his last year in Russia. 2 years later and he drops 108 in the NHL.

25 in 50 doesn't look great, but I'm still not crossing much of anything off, except that I don't think he'll be Kaprizov. I have pretty much everything below that still in play.

Yurov's previous 49 point season probably shouldn't be forgotten either. Still not quite on Kaprizov's level, but is at least comparable to other high-end Russian players at same age.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yurov's previous 49 point season probably shouldn't be forgotten either. Still not quite on Kaprizov's level, but is at least comparable to other high-end Russian players at same age.

Correct, and unlike Khusnutdinov's good season that it might be compared to, Yurov wasn't 6th on his team in scoring (5th forward), he was 1st.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Russia stats are just weird. I forget that Kaprizov was a measly 5 points over PPG his last year in Russia. 2 years later and he drops 108 in the NHL.

25 in 50 doesn't look great, but I'm still not crossing much of anything off, except that I don't think he'll be Kaprizov. I have pretty much everything below that still in play.

They're a little more stingy with second assists.

Russo said on his last podcast 0% chance he plays a second in Iowa. Straight to the nhl or won't come

I didn't know rookie deals could even have a no-move clause but Russo is the "insider" who knows more about hockey than anyone else in the world.

 

[Wabit]

I didn't know rookie deals could even have a no-move clause but Russo is the "insider" who knows more about hockey than anyone else in the world.

It happens with Russians a lot. NHL or bust. They'll just get their contracts terminated or loaned to the KHL instead of going to the AHL. Handshake deal or the player just saying nope I'm taking my toys and going home because the AHL isn't worth the pay.

 

[Soldier13Fox]

It happens with Russians a lot. NHL or bust. They'll just get their contracts terminated or loaned to the KHL instead of going to the AHL. Handshake deal or the player just saying nope I'm taking my toys and going home because the AHL isn't worth the pay.

Right... not a clause, but more of a "nah"

 

[AKL]

Does anyone blame the KHL players for doing that? Can't really hold it against them for choosing the most appealing option for them. NHL teams could try to make playing in the AHL more appealing than playing in the KHL, but until then?

Besides, we all know Yurov isn't coming over to play in Des Moines. If Guerin isn't ready to give him NHL time, let him keep playing in Russia. But if Guerin wants him over here, he has to make it worth it for Yurov. Simple as.

 

[AKL]

And btw it's not just KHL players who will forego playing in the AHL. Guys from other Euro leagues will often stay in those leagues until they're NHL ready. NCAA players will not usually play in the AHL if they can help it. Stramel is going back for his 4th NCAA season instead of coming to Iowa. Who knows, maybe that's because he plans to walk next summer.

Besides, do we really want Yurov in the shitshow that is Iowa? I definitely don't lol

 

[Soldier13Fox]

Disregard

 

[Soldier13Fox]

Does anyone blame the KHL players for doing that? Can't really hold it against them for choosing the most appealing option for them. NHL teams could try to make playing in the AHL more appealing than playing in the KHL, but until then?

Besides, we all know Yurov isn't coming over to play in Des Moines. If Guerin isn't ready to give him NHL time, let him keep playing in Russia. But if Guerin wants him over here, he has to make it worth it for Yurov. Simple as.

Don't blame them at all. I do wish there were some rules in place that would be like "if a team spends draft capital on you and you refuse to sign or report (for any reason) you can't sign another contract with another team for a year or two "

Because, if you're cool entering the draft... you should be cool playing for whatever shit show team drafts you. IA included

Or maybe even make it super harsh. If you enter the draft (that's a choice right) and you don't want to play for the team that drafts you.... you just don't play in the NHL. I might like that option even more. Not KHL specific, i.e. mcbain

 

[AKL]

Don't blame them at all. I do wish there were some rules in place that would be like "if a team spends draft capital on you and you refuse to sign or report (for any reason) you can't sign another contract with another team for a year or two "

Because, if you're cool entering the draft... you should be cool playing for whatever shit show team drafts you. IA included

It's part of the process. Why do they have to be okay playing in Iowa if it makes no fundamental difference to their development to play in the KHL, and it's better for their personal life? They typically make as much, or more money in the KHL, they get to live much closer to home.

Again, this isn't really just a KHL issue. Granlund played in Finland until he was set to make the NHL roster. Kumpulainen went back to Finland and I don't imagine he'll be coming back until he's got a pretty good shot at the NHL. Filip Johansson may not ever have an NHL career, but he came over for one NA season and decided he was better off in Sweden. But it's only a problem when it's a KHL player, for some reason.

If you can play in a mens pro league in your home country making as much or more money, that's almost always going to be better for you than playing in the AHL. Any of us would do the same if we were from Russia, Sweden, etc. It just makes sense. It's just as good for development, it's just as good for money, and it's far more comfortable. The NHL is where it becomes worth it to completely uproot your life and move across the world. That's when the prestige is there, that's when the money is there.

I just don't understand the obsession with forcing these guys into playing in the AHL.

 

[AKL]

Or maybe even make it super harsh. If you enter the draft (that's a choice right) and you don't want to play for the team that drafts you.... you just don't play in the NHL. I might like that option even more. Not KHL specific, i.e. mcbain

Does that mean there's an option to opt out of the draft and sign directly with a team you want? You're encroaching on some pretty ugly stuff here.

 

[Soldier13Fox]

It's part of the process. Why do they have to be okay playing in Iowa if it makes no fundamental difference to their development to play in the KHL, and it's better for their personal life? They typically make as much, or more money in the KHL, they get to live much closer to home.

Again, this isn't really just a KHL issue. Granlund played in Finland until he was set to make the NHL roster. Kumpulainen went back to Finland and I don't imagine he'll be coming back until he's got a pretty good shot at the NHL. Filip Johansson may not ever have an NHL career, but he came over for one NA season and decided he was better off in Sweden. But it's only a problem when it's a KHL player, for some reason.

If you can play in a mens pro league in your home country making as much or more money, that's almost always going to be better for you than playing in the AHL. Any of us would do the same if we were from Russia, Sweden, etc. It just makes sense. It's just as good for development, it's just as good for money, and it's far more comfortable. The NHL is where it becomes worth it to completely uproot your life and move across the world. That's when the prestige is there, that's when the money is there.

I just don't understand the obsession with forcing these guys into playing in the AHL.

I edited my post a 3rd time while you were replying. Lol. I agree it is not a KHL specific thing. Maybe I'm just kind of a principles guy. You willingly enter the draft, you should be OK with playing by the teams system and ideas on how to develop you after spending that draft capital. If you're not OK with that... don't enter the draft and get a contract for what you want.

I'm also not super concerned with this and won't get my feelings hurt either way. Yurov will be on the big club next year.

 

[Soldier13Fox]

Does that mean there's an option to opt out of the draft and sign directly with a team you want? You're encroaching on some pretty ugly stuff here.

I think so? Maybe I'm showing my ass here by not knowing all the rules and regs. Can an 18 year old hockey player not sign an undrafted contract? If not... I concede the point and you are 100% correct.

 

[57special]

There are a few reasons to have your prospects on your AHL team rather than under contract to a KHL team.

1- they are a short distance away, and can be called up multiple times during a season, gradually getting them used to the NHL environment. This cannot happen if they are playing on a KHL team.

2- they are part of the organization, and exposed to training methods and type of play in the AHL that will also be used on the parent NHL team, ideally.

3- The Russian player learns to speak English, and operate in a US environment. Most Swedes, Finns, and other Euros speak vg English, so this is less of an issue for them.

 

[AKL]

You willingly enter the draft, you should be OK with playing by the teams system and ideas on how to develop you after spending that draft capital. If you're not OK with that... don't enter the draft and get a contract for what you want.

I don't think the NHL is an "opt-in" draft. If you are a player somewhere in the world you are eligible to be drafted, regardless of whether you want to be or not. And there's no way for a player to opt out of the draft. And if a KHL player is drafted by an NHL team, that team holds his rights for a long time. I can't remember if it's until the player is 27, or if it's forever for a KHL player. A vindictive organization can draft a Russian kid knowing full well he doesn't want to play for them, and hold him hostage for half of his career.

I know there are certain ways out, like the NCAA college free agent thing, obviously Filip Johansson was able to get out after a certain timeframe when he didn't sign a contract here. Every way I know of takes at least 3-4+ years to be able to actually sign with a team you want to be with.

 

[Soldier13Fox]

I don't think the NHL is an "opt-in" draft. If you are a player somewhere in the world you are eligible to be drafted, regardless of whether you want to be or not. And there's no way for a player to opt out of the draft. And if a KHL player is drafted by an NHL team, that team holds his rights for a long time. I can't remember if it's until the player is 27, or if it's forever for a KHL player. A vindictive organization can draft a Russian kid knowing full well he doesn't want to play for them, and hold him hostage for half of his career.

Oh, then I totally agree.... just my poor understanding. Yes. If a drafted player just decides he doesn't want to play for the team that drafted him.... 100%... let'him do his thing and give the compensatory pick to the team. Your honor, I withdraw my objection.

 

[AKL]

There are a few reasons to have your prospects on your AHL team rather than under contract to a KHL team.

1- they are a short distance away, and can be called up multiple times during a season, gradually getting them used to the NHL environment. This cannot happen if they are playing on a KHL team.

2- they are part of the organization, and exposed to training methods and type of play in the AHL that will also be used on the parent NHL team, ideally.

3- The Russian player learns to speak English, and operate in a US environment. Most Swedes, Finns, and other Euros speak vg English, so this is less of an issue for them.

I don't know how important any of these actually are. Just trying to look at some big name Russian players today

Kucherov - actually played half a season in the Q, don't know how impactful that was
Panarin - developed in the KHL until he was signed to an NHL contract
Marchenko - 4 post draft seasons in Russia, 16 total games in the AHL
Michkov - 1 post draft season in Russia, 0 AHL games
Kaprizov - 5 post draft seasons in Russia, 0 AHL games
Buchnevich - 3 post draft seasons in Russia, 4 AHL games
Malkin - 2 post draft seasons in Russia, 0 AHL games
Voronkov - 4 post draft seasons in Russia, 4 AHL games
Nichushkin - came to NHL immediately after draft for 3 seasons, went back to Russia for 2 seasons, back to NHL
Tarasenko - 2.5 post draft seasons in Russia, 0 AHL games

There are some notable names who did spend significant time in the AHL or were even drafted out of NA leagues:

Namestnikov - drafted after 1 OHL season, played another OHL season post draft, 134 AHL games
Dadonov - 2 post draft seasons in Russia, then played 155 AHL games, then went back to Russia, then came back to the NHL
Dorofeyev - 2 post draft seasons in Russia, has played 119 AHL games
Barbashev - drafted after 2 Q seasons, played one more Q season post draft, 131 AHL games
Svechnikov - 1 USHL season, 1 OHL season pre draft, straight to NHL, 0 AHL games
Sergachev - 1 OHL season pre draft, another post draft, 0 AHL games


So lots of guys spending a lot of time in Russia and very little time in the AHL or other NA leagues, a few less guys who actually played ~1.5 seasons worth of AHL games, just a couple more who played NA juniors and 0 AHL. I don't think putting Yurov in the AHL is all that important.


For the record, I don't have a problem with Yurov playing in the AHL if he's not NHL ready and is willing to play there, I just don't see the importance of making him play there first, and if he opts for the KHL instead of the AHL, I entirely get it. I also don't think it's going to be a problem, I think he'll be good enough to play on the NHL team next year.