Why Wasn't Mike Bossy Drafted Higher?

[whatname]

15th overall is pretty high, but this guy had an outstanding career in the Q. Was it due to lack of toughness, size, speed?

 

[cam042686]

15th overall is pretty high, but this guy had an outstanding career in the Q. Was it due to lack of toughness, size, speed?

The knock in him in junior was he couldn't check - he was a defensive liability. The Islanders figured you can't teach someone how to score - but you can teach defensive skills.

Craig Wallace

 

[Hot Water Bottle]

Story I read was that he was basically overlooked by other teams' scouts and was only well known to the Isles. The Isles were still thrilled that he was not picked up by another team.

 

[sr edler]

he wasn't bossy enough

 

[Ogopogo*]

Because scouting is far from perfect.

Why did the Oilers get Messier 48th overall? Or Eberle at #22?

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Hindsight is 20/20, but it seems hard to believe the Islanders were able to snatch up "Boss" with the 15th overall pick in the 1977 NHL Entry Draft. How could 14 other teams over look a guy who average 77 goals a year in a brilliant 4 year junior career?! At the time the QMJHL was notorious for developing the small snipers who didn't know how to play defensively or physically, and despite their knack for scoring goals NHL teams feared taking a chance on a boom or bust situation.

The Islanders were happily surprised to snatch up Bossy at number 15, and he would quickly prove that he would be no bust. Bossy is considered by many to be the best pure sniper in the history of hockey - even better than a Brett Hull or Ilya Kovalchuk for modern fans. And Bossy worked very hard at becoming a well rounded player. He openly admitted to not playing any defense in his junior days, but he became a very reliable back checker with the Isles

http://nyislanderslegends.blogspot.com/2006/05/mike-bossy.html

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

Because scouting is far from perfect.

Why did the Oilers get Messier 48th overall? Or Eberle at #22?

Well, the Messier one is easy: 1 goal in 47 games going into the draft. The Oilers just figured that he was maybe overwhelmed as a 17 year-old in a professional league, and that his combo of size and skating was worth gambling on. Of course, I doubt anyone figured he would end up being the player he was. (I know you already know that, and are just using it as an example)

As for Bossy: defensive liability, but also was he not considered soft coming out of the Q? I believe there was a story about a player jumping him and Bossy not responding. The NHL being the way it was at that time, that scared off a lot of scouts. Kind of sad they couldn't recognize the heart it took to put up with the kind of abuse he did and still pile up goals.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Also thought to be fragile, I believe. Plus he smoked a lot and was kind of a ghoulish looking dude.

Bar none the guy you'd want to have the puck if your life hung in the balance. Clutch , absolute goal scorer.

 

[leeroggy]

The Rangers drafted TWICE before Bossy went and took Ron Duguay and Lucien DeBlois in front of him. The true story was the defensive liability, not the toughness.

Bossy still holds the career NHL record for goals per game, and if he didn't have to retire at AGE 30 would have likely scored about 1,000 goals. The first NINE years in the NHL he scored 50+ goals! And in his last, INJURY RIDDLED year scored 39. Probably the most ACCURATE slap shot of all time.

 

[reckoning]

The Rangers drafted TWICE before Bossy went and took Ron Duguay and Lucien DeBlois in front of him.

It must've killed Ranger fans to be reminded of that fact every year in the early 80s when the Islanders would always beat the Rangers in the playoffs.

 

[whatname]

Well, the Messier one is easy: 1 goal in 47 games going into the draft. The Oilers just figured that he was maybe overwhelmed as a 17 year-old in a professional league, and that his combo of size and skating was worth gambling on. Of course, I doubt anyone figured he would end up being the player he was. (I know you already know that, and are just using it as an example)

As for Bossy: defensive liability, but also was he not considered soft coming out of the Q? I believe there was a story about a player jumping him and Bossy not responding. The NHL being the way it was at that time, that scared off a lot of scouts. Kind of sad they couldn't recognize the heart it took to put up with the kind of abuse he did and still pile up goals.

I heard that the lone gone Messier scored was actually a fluke goal from centre ice.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

The Habs were well aware of Bossy. The story is that Claude Ruel told Sam Pollock that Bossy was the first player to "bring me out of my seat since Lafleur." However, Pollock decided to draft Mark Napier.

 

[redbull]

I was surprised to learn how much bossy smoked, was even mentioned in his book, smoking between periods when going for 50in50 if memory serves. Reggie Leach played many games drunk, not sure where I read that. Scary how much better these guys could have been with some conditioning.

In terms of the draft, it was a 20year old draft then, you'd think it would have been easier to gauge talent and NHL readiness...but there's always a risk. You never know how a player will adapt to the challenge of the NHL. He was probably picked where he should have been, at the time.

One dimensional, didn't skate very well, not strong on his skates, didn't play any defense. Robbie Schremp looked much the sme way a few years back. It's impossible to gauge desire, work ethic and determination. At that level, it matters as much as talent, if not more.

I know that Abour was asked about the choice between Bossy and a more well-rounded player and Al apparently said (paraphrasing), "get me the goal scorer, he can learn defense"

As an aside, Pat Flatley, in his early days with the Isles had a drop pass at the offensive blue line that resulted in a scoring chance against. Arbour says to Flats (next day), "on this team, Mike Bossy can make drop passes at the blue line, everyone else dumps the puck in. Got it" - I love that story.

 

[Big Phil]

The Rangers drafted TWICE before Bossy went and took Ron Duguay and Lucien DeBlois in front of him. The true story was the defensive liability, not the toughness.

Bossy still holds the career NHL record for goals per game, and if he didn't have to retire at AGE 30 would have likely scored about 1,000 goals. The first NINE years in the NHL he scored 50+ goals! And in his last, INJURY RIDDLED year scored 39. Probably the most ACCURATE slap shot of all time.

Not 1,000 goals though. He ended with 573 at 30 years old. To get 1,000 he'd have had to score 43 goals a season for a decade. We never had the luxury of knowing how Bossy's goal scoring production would have fared in his 30s but we do know that pretty much every other great player in NHL history suffered a drop - even a large drop - in goals once they hit their 30s. I don't see Bossy being a 45 goal guy at 35, let alone 40. He may have challenged Gretzky's 894 though, but even then it would be a task and a half.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and it makes you wonder why Bossy wasn't snagged earlier. Others have covered it pretty well already and there isn't much more to say. He did take a Ciccarelli-type beating in front of the net though at times and to his credit he never dropped the gloves. It wasn't his style, which is fine. Bossy wasn't a cheap shot artist throwing elbows all over the ice either so he didn't need to do it.

But I can see how people might have been scared off of him in 1977. Remember Pavel Brendl? The guy scored 73 goals in his draft year in the WHL in 1999. He went 4th overall and was a bust bigger than Stefan in my book. He was just as prolific of a goal scorer as Bossy was in junior and he had some scouts nervous too, for good reason. Basically he was accused of being one-dimensional. But anyway, it does make sense in the grand scheme of things as to why Bossy was passed over.

 

[redbull]

Not 1,000 goals though. He ended with 573 at 30 years old. To get 1,000 he'd have had to score 43 goals a season for a decade. We never had the luxury of knowing how Bossy's goal scoring production would have fared in his 30s but we do know that pretty much every other great player in NHL history suffered a drop - even a large drop - in goals once they hit their 30s. I don't see Bossy being a 45 goal guy at 35, let alone 40. He may have challenged Gretzky's 894 though, but even then it would be a task and a half.

1000 goals is unachievable in the NHL. Averaging 50 goals for 20 years...seems impossible.

Bossy retired due to injury but was pretty outspoken about wanting to retire fairly young. He wrote about this in his book and I recall hearing it throughout his career. Bossy seemed to want to have some great NHL years and then have a productive life after hockey, which he's done. He mentioned he would probably have retired after ten seasons, his hope to top 50 in all of them which was probably a lock for him had he been healthy.

Imagine scoring 50+goals for ten straight seasons - that would be something. To average that amount of goals you'll need to do so with great linemates, poor linemates, on good/bad teams, several coaches, you'd need to stay healthy and have a lot of luck.

Now, doing that for 20 years? I say 1000 goals is impossible. But if 99 set that as his goal when he was 18, he could probably have done it.

 

[Bexlyspeed]

he had said he only wanted to play 10 years and score at least 50 in all 10. ive also heard him say that he was so intent on scoring 50 that once he reached it he didnt have the same drive to score.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Was Bossy an outspoken opponent of fighting in hockey in junior, or did he wait until he got to the NHL?

 

[ForsbergForever]

The Habs took Mark Napier over Mike Bossy and when you look at it, the decision does make some sense considering Napier had scored 60 as a 19/20 year old in the WHA.

 

[reckoning]

Napier was considered by many scouts to be the best available player in the draft, and might have gone #1 overall if he was still in junior. But he was under contract to a WHA team, and the weaker NHL teams that needed immediate help had to pass on him. Montreal was so stacked that they could afford to wait.

It was a similar situation that year with John Tonelli, a player who probably would've been a top 10 pick, but because he was in the WHA he slid to the second round where the Islanders got him. Bossy and Tonelli...nice draft for Bill Torrey.

 

[arrbez]

Bossy still holds the career NHL record for goals per game, and if he didn't have to retire at AGE 30 would have likely scored about 1,000 goals.

You can probably say that he holds the NHL record for goals-per-game because he retried at age 30.

Gretzky and Lemieux both had higher GPG averages at age 30 (and Brett Hull was right there with Bossy too).

1,000 goals would be pretty generous, since you'd have to assume that he wouldn't decline in his 30's like pretty much every other player ever has done.

 

[redbull]

Was Bossy an outspoken opponent of fighting in hockey in junior, or did he wait until he got to the NHL?

from fading memory, in his book he stated that he made some "public declaration" in his rookie year that he would not fight. I heard nothing of that in junior.

He started to speak out against fighting when he was in his first few seasons. I remember he was endorsing a spine protector type of equipment at one point - the perfect spokesperson considering he must have been cross-checked in the back a thousand times on his way to 573 goals.

Tiger Williams would torment and belittle Bossy on the ice, always referred to him as a wuss (the "P" and "Y" omitted), publicly, even worse on the ice I'm sure.

Looking back now, it must have been pretty tough to put up with, without fighting back.

Back to the thread, I don't think his stance on fighting had ANYTHING to do with his draft position. Except for the fact he scored 308 goals in four years, accumulating just over 100 total PM. He was deemed to be a soft player, in a soft league at a time when the NHL was a very angry place.

 

[albertGQ]

I laugh when people say Bossey is a better pure goal scorer than Wayne and had he not had to retire early that he would have the goal scoring record.

Sorry, but Wayne outscored him while Bossey was in the league. Their primes overlapped and there was no debate at the time who was the better goal scorer.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Gretzky was still better, but Bossy would have likely topped 700 if he played a full career.

 

[JJ18Sniper]

I just finished reading "Boss: The Mike Bossy Story" which was written in 1988 as he was trying to rest his back. He mentioned that while he was very disappointed being unable to hit 50 goals in his last season and obtaining 10 straight 50 goal seasons due to a painful back, he only was going to play one additional season and retire.

During his last contract discussion he only wanted to play through his 10th year (86-87), and Billy Torrey convinced him to add another year on the contract to balance out the salary demands. After accepting the contract with the 1 additional year, his plan was to go for 11 years of 50 straight goals and retire at 31 following his contract expiration. He was injured during his 10th season (finished with 38 goals), and sat out his 11th resting his back. Unfortunately for him, it was a degenerative condition and he never returned.

The book confirmed for me, injured or not, he would never have played past 87-88.

If he was able to complete his dream of 50 goals in 86-87, you're looking at 12-15 additional goals to his total for the year.
For the 11th year that never happened, another 50 or so goals.
Hypothetically, he only had ~65 goals left if he was able to follow through on his mission. (573+~65 = 638) Not quite 700.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Because scouting is far from perfect.

Why did the Oilers get Messier 48th overall? Or Eberle at #22?

In 08 when Eberle was drafted he was quite slight and most of the guys that didn't pan out that were taken ahead of him were larger and more in vogue.

Tedenby who went 2 spots later at 24 had probably the most talent at the time in 2008 but his size held him back as well and he only lasted till 24th because he was and is really small.