Why was Jagr so underwhelming in the playoffs?

[wetcoast]

Absolutely, the biggest stain in his career are his sub par playoff performances for his own standard. He had good years, but he had many underwhelming ones, too. 2001, 1993 and 1996 particularly come to mind. In all of these years Pittsburgh reaches the Cup final if Jagr doesnt disappear.

It's almost like 15 other teams aren't trying to reach the SC finals eh?

this thread is just such a bad take, Jagr was very very good in the playoffs and if every player was given the same exact scrutiny, Jagr still ends up in what the 95+ % of all players during his time in the league in the playoffs and since expansion.

How is that underwhelming?


Seems like unless he was better than Gretzky some people will just wanna cast blame here on him.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i can’t say i was a close follower of the early round playoff series of jagr’s peak but to me, his signature playoff series was round two of 1992, when adam graves bobby-clark-ed mario in game two and we got the first glimpse of what jagr really was.

facing the presidents trophy-winning rangers, with hart messier and norris leetch (richter let in a few laughers and was replaced by beezer, who wasn’t exactly great himself), twenty year-old jagr:

• set up troy loney's the third period tap-in to send the game into OT, which also tied the series 2-2

​

• scored two of pittsburgh three goals, including the late third period tie-breaker to take a 3-2 series lead

​

and these weren’t just important points, they were jaw-dropping, best player on the ice taking over plays.

less dramatically, he also got the GWG in the deciding game six. it was a mid-second period go-ahead goal that eventually stood up as the game-winner. they got another one shortly after, then iced it with two empty-netters at the end of the third.




(and for good measure, his penalty shot in game 5)

 

[frisco]

i can’t say i was a close follower of the early round playoff series of jagr’s peak but to me, his signature playoff series was round two of 1992, when adam graves bobby-clark-ed mario in game two and we got the first glimpse of what jagr really was.

facing the presidents trophy-winning rangers, with hart messier and norris leetch (richter let in a few laughers and was replaced by beezer, who wasn’t exactly great himself), twenty year-old jagr:

• set up troy loney's the third period tap-in to send the game into OT, which also tied the series 2-2

​

• scored two of pittsburgh three goals, including the late third period tie-breaker to take a 3-2 series lead

​

and these weren’t just important points, they were jaw-dropping, best player on the ice taking over plays.

less dramatically, he also got the GWG in the deciding game six. it was a mid-second period go-ahead goal that eventually stood up as the game-winner. they got another one shortly after, then iced it with two empty-netters at the end of the third.




(and for good measure, his penalty shot in game 5)

I've mentioned this before, but Jagr in 1992 was likely the best playoff performance ever in an age-19 season. Also, Jagr in 1991 probably the best age-18 season for a playoffs ever, too. Very underwhelming.

My Best-Carey

 

[bleedgreen]

He’s tied for 5th all time in playoff pts. With Crosby ironically. The four ahead of him are Gretzky and his Oiler teammates.

Again, aside from Gretzky’s Oilers Jagr is tied for the most playoff pts in NHL history.

That doesn’t line up with the word underwhelming.

 

[K Fleur]

Actually “any caps fan” might be the best group to ask about Jagr in the playoffs. Since he scored 52 points against the Caps in his playoff career. Roughly 26% of his career playoff points were scored against them.

I imagine the answer would be something along the lines of “yeah he used to f***ing kill us”

 

[PistolPete]

I've watched almost every playoff game of his career, being a fan since his draft year. And he CAN have a higher gear of effort, grit, physicality and play-through contact that defines playoff hockey. But not enough times.

I loathe Detroit but admire Yzerman's play even in losses. I love Marleau and cheered his Sharks but haven't often been satisfied with his play in the losses.

So you're saying he's an exceptionally talented player who can score at a higher pace in the PO without even really trying?

 

[VanIslander]

So you're saying he's an exceptionally talented player who can score at a higher pace in the PO without even really trying?

An exceptionally talented player who can't really try to score when it matters most.

In too many loses he left too much effort in the tank.

 

[PistolPete]

An exceptionally talented player who can't really try to score when it matters most.

In too many loses he left too much effort in the tank.

Makes me wonder what a breakdown of his scoring would be with regard to round and game number

 

[Michael Farkas]

Makes me wonder what a breakdown of his scoring would be with regard to round and game number

One of our all star contributors, @overpass , did work on this here: Playoff Scoring Late in Series Games 5 7 vs Early in Series Games 1 4

Jagr fell into "not much change" category....

 

[PistolPete]

One of our all star contributors, @overpass , did work on this here: Playoff Scoring Late in Series Games 5 7 vs Early in Series Games 1 4

Jagr fell into "not much change" category....

I was referring to Patrick Marleau....another poster mentioned him

Know his stats for that?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Sorry, I didn't track the whole convo. My apologies. When I saw "exceptionally talented" I really didn't think it was going to be Marleau out of the two main players in the thread haha

Anyhow, I'd invite you to be entertained by this thread: Scoring in playoff elimination games - which is about scoring in elimination games. Not exactly the same scale, but it paints a picture.

 

[McGarnagle]

Anecdotally I'll say his 2013 run with the Bruins was the most snakebit I've ever seen a player. Practically every game there was at least one occasion where he had a prime scoring chance and he either hit the post or got robbed by the goalie. It was frustrating because I really wanted to see him score. That doesn't mean he was useless though, he did rack up assists and his biggest contribution was overpowering Malkin in double OT to win the puck which set up Bergeron for the winning goal that put them up 3-0. (Which would've been a hooking call in the regular season).

But yeah, never seen a guy have more scoring chances in a playoff run without burying one than Jagr in 2013

 

[JianYang]

Didn't the Canadiens use a 3 dmen gameplan on jagr in 97/98?

9 points in 6 games is pretty good regardless.

 

[VaporTrail]

#5 all time NHL history in post season points...smh

 

[Salsa Shark]

He was awesome for the Rangers his last season in 2007-08 after he’d taken a step back as a player.

 

[daver]

Were the playoffs that much different than the regular season in the 90s?

During the DPE , scoring was way down. From '97 to '04 (8 seasons), there were 24 players (min. 15 games) that were a PPG (3 per season)

After DPE 2.0, from '18 to '25 (eight seasons), there are 49 players (min. 15 games) that were a PPG (6.12 per season)

The 1996 loss to the Cats was easily the biggest dissappointment for Jagr as he could have built on his impressive teenage SCF resume. It left the stain of the "c

He generally was elite without Mario after that but like Hull and Ovechkin, had a coat of dissappointment painted on their otherwise acceptable playoff legacy.

He was the first GOAT talent to not have playoff success during his peak/prime and opened up the debate as to the bar to set for generational talent and team success.

 

[MadLuke]

He was the first GOAT talent to not have playoff success

Bobby Hull ?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Shore won one fairly early, and while I don't think he's a GOAT talent, he is extremely highly regarded but didn't win a lot relative to expectations I'd say without looking into it at all haha

 

[PistolPete]

Bobby Hull ?

Why Hull?
He averaged 47 per 82 in regular season and 43 per 82 in playoffs.

 

[authentic]

Anecdotally I'll say his 2013 run with the Bruins was the most snakebit I've ever seen a player. Practically every game there was at least one occasion where he had a prime scoring chance and he either hit the post or got robbed by the goalie. It was frustrating because I really wanted to see him score. That doesn't mean he was useless though, he did rack up assists and his biggest contribution was overpowering Malkin in double OT to win the puck which set up Bergeron for the winning goal that put them up 3-0. (Which would've been a hooking call in the regular season).

But yeah, never seen a guy have more scoring chances in a playoff run without burying one than Jagr in 2013

Closest I’ve seen is Datsyuk in 2009? However he actually scored 1 goal so he doesn’t qualify. I remember Bob Mackenzie saying he was having one of the most dominant goal/pointless droughts he had ever seen in the playoffs.

 

[MadLuke]

Why Hull?
He averaged 47 per 82 in regular season and 43 per 82 in playoffs.

Single cup, it is not like Jagr did not score extremelly a lot during the playoff as well if we define playoff success by scoring in them

 

[authentic]

Shore won one fairly early, and while I don't think he's a GOAT talent, he is extremely highly regarded but didn't win a lot relative to expectations I'd say without looking into it at all haha

Eddie Shore is not a GOAT talent? Is it because of the era he played or is there something else missing with him?

 

[PistolPete]

Single cup, it is not like Jagr did not score extremelly a lot during the playoff as well if we define playoff success by scoring in them

Ah, you meant team success.

K. Was confused there for a second

 

[overpass]

While Jagr didn't have an all-time great single playoff run, over his career he scored as many big playoff goals and points as anyone. In fact, he's the all-time leader in game-tying + go-ahead playoff points scored in the 3rd period or OT.

1. Jaromir Jagr: 18-20-38
2. Brett Hull: 20-17-37
3. Joe Sakic: 19-16-35
4. Wayne Gretzky: 9-24-33
5. Mark Messier: 6-27-33

 

[MadLuke]

Ah, you meant team success.

K. Was confused there for a second

wait were you suggesting that Jagr did not had individual success in the playoff during his prime ? 22-27 jagr scored at a different pace than anyone that were not Gretzky-Lemieux:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

PPG
Jagr: 1.36 (+17, move even strength points than Sakic in 26 less games)
Lindros: 1.14
Forsberg: 1.12
Sakic: 1.11

I thought you meant a lack of team success during his prime.